tianavitoli

tianavitoli t1_iv8a7qu wrote

it's basically a long winded way of saying the ends justify the means. "we have good intentions so indulge us regardless of whatever foresight you might have, we have good intentions, so if you don't agree with us, you defacto have bad intentions, so we can kill you"

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tianavitoli t1_itixhgn wrote

i believe that's right, which is why the answer for me always comes back around to personal development, self improvement through self reflection.

not exactly my idea, there are many different well known people who've said the same. this has been validated in my own experience is all.

i'm of the opinion right now that... maybe the best way to express is is actually from a mary ann williamson poem, to paraphrase

people aren't afraid of their darkness, they're afraid being successful will alienate them from those they care about. this is actually against our inner nature, we were made to be prosperous, whatever that means evolution, creation, it doesn't matter. everything about us is emblematic of prosperity. somewhere along the way we got the wrong idea, reaching for our goals, pursuing our potential, it unconsciously inspires, motivates, and gives permission to others to do the same. this is what we were designed to do.

so hey look, do you. people notice the changes, it makes them happy. we can't directly influence those in power, but we can influence those who might assume the role tomorrow. not through coercion or emotional manipulation, but through resisting it, by being able to navigate the sea of life successfully and maintain a (more or less) healthy optimism. again, other people said this best so i'm just going to use their words:

"don't wish it was easier, wish you were better. don't wish for less problems, wish for more skills. don't wish for the wind to change, that's what they call naiive. wish for the wisdom to set a better sail, let the wind take you where you want to go in life"

- Jim Rohn

he would also say something like the world stays the same. we kinda cycle through the same conversations over and over again. somebody comes up with some idea they feel passionately about that doesn't know it was already tried so they go on a crusade to change the world for the better. i tend to suffer from the opposite, i look and see other people already did it, and i hate feeling like i'm copying other people so i tend not to do things, even though it's obvious there's plenty of room in the world to stake a claim to something, and i have enough competence to be successful in things and people like competence so i will be successful. example: my friend back in 2013 said the real money in crypto would be operating an exchange. there was already coinbase bittrex bitfinex, bitmex, etc and they seemed to be well enough established so i dismissed the idea. fuck me, that was a great idea, since then we've got bybit, ftx, deribit, circle, voyager, and a whole bunch of other shitty exchanges that are all making a lot of money. we probably would have failed, it's not like we know anything, but it was a great idea.

i remember some friend told me about some book he read, i don't remember, eastern philosophy stuff. actually i've heard alan watts say this too. at some point you have to realize you've got the juice inside you and just run with it. the teacher will poke fun of and mock the student until the student realizes the teacher is full of shit too, and just start running with it. i like this, the spiritual principles are really simple, sometimes the pursuit of knowledge becomes an escape from the responsibility of having it.

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tianavitoli t1_itinu82 wrote

or maybe it's less about talking and more about walking. honestly it seems like most debate is two people arguing to be right about some change or development they aren't participating in effecting, and those who are aren't sincere in effecting it anyways.

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tianavitoli t1_itigwch wrote

no no no no, don't get me wrong. i'm not saying that you're saying if they don't agree with you they're acting in bad faith. i'm saying that i'm saying that they're acting in bad faith that's why they're disagreeing with you. not like a chicken and egg thing, but more like and egg and chicken thing.

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tianavitoli t1_iti7p0j wrote

fancy that, this used to be served by religion, one god and all... but then no one agreed on quite the right way to serve this one god, and much violence ensured.

it wasn't wholly unproductive thought, men were brought up to restrain themselves, be amenable to women, to be of service to their family and community.

now that's all been replaced with government. that proud loving intervening god that generally stayed up there in heaven, is replaced with a real, violent government who enjoys physical intervention, intimidation, obstruction, and coercion. if you wish to suffer for your beliefs, they will happily oblige you. praise be to the state. in congress we trust.

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tianavitoli t1_iti3zun wrote

even this is subject to the immediate dismissal of good faith, because if they didn't learn anything, they must not have been debating in good faith.

And by learn something, I mean accommodating my beliefs in lieu of your own.

or to oversimplify: if you don't agree with me you are acting in bad faith

that sounds oddly familiar to the status quo we have now.

it only creates the incentive to be disingenuous first, before the other party can be.

and this is a genuine problem. every system based on rules will always be subject to the exploitation by those who discover they gain distinct and often insurmountable advantage by breaking the rules.

good faith is not enough.

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tianavitoli t1_iti312n wrote

most people believe that doing something is always better than doing nothing, because they believe that at the very least, they can say they did something, irrespective of how constructive the action taken actually was.

made the problem worse? oh well fuck it at least we did something, look at you who said we should do nothing, you're the loser, not us who made things worse.

"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."

so the whole idea of "making things better" is a false pretense. how about you make yourself better and leave the rest of us alone.

the entirety of government malpractice has been predicated on this idea of "we are making things better". You can ask them, they sincerely believe they are acting in good faith.

example: covid. follow the science. if you're not following the science, then you need to have a heart, shut your mouth, and listen to our scientists. sucks to your belief that our scientists are acting under false pretense, it's just that we've decided you have no heart, therefore you must not have a brain either. we're doing something and you're not you loser.

"Now is the time to do as you're told" - Anthony Fauci

So the correct statement is "All of the problems in this world could be solved with a motivated populace who prided themselves on being involved with the intellectual debates of the day

with a good faith effort to make themselves better"

"I used to say; I'll take care of you if you take care of me. Now I say; I'll take care of me for you, if you'll take care of you for me" - Jim Rohn

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