My brain turns that headline into an image of cows being shot out of a very large missile launcher attached to a helicopter.

I'm not necessarily knocking new biofuels as much as the moniker "plant based". They're both "plant based" just on a different cycle time. The more accurate name would be "farmed biofuel" or "short cycle biofuel". I think people also mistakenly associate "plant based" with healthier for you and that's not exactly the case either. Hence why I pointed out a missing ingredient in the lifecycle of plant based things; Getting nutrients back into the soil we keep robbing. By no means should we let perfect become the enemy of good, but it is something we need to start focusing on quickly otherwise the demand on the earth for food AND fuel AND medicine AND everything else is going to leave it baren and unusable.

Does anyone ever think "oh so we'll use new plant based petroleum to replace old plant based petroleum..."

Let's also talk about soil erosion and the loss of topsoil and the toxic chemicals we're putting into the waterways as we're farming all of these new miracle crops. What will fundamentally change about our lifestyles that will fix this dumb cycle.

For instance we're sending perfectly good waste material to the dump that could be grade A fertilizer because it's cheaper to throw it away and use natural gas to make fertilizer. We're putting millions of bodies in caskets or incinerating them and keeping the remains in urns as mementos instead of them going back into the earth as nutrients. Same for animals and animal byproducts. Just use a bunch of petroleum energy to burn off the remains instead of figuring out how to turn it back to the soil. It's expedient and cheaper but slowly robs the earth of it's nutrients to just create heat waste.

You're talking in circles. The conversation was about affordability. That's where you started and now your propping up why it's okay that the Tesla isn't affordable and should be in the premium space. Cost is absolutely a huge driver for tons of consumers. Discounting that is just stupid. A huge argument happening right now against EVs is about affordability to the budget minded segment of the population looking to replace their current vehicles.

Then you go on to ignore everything I said about how traditional car makers will fill up both the budget end and the premium end of the market with their vehicles (e.g. the Silverado EV and Hummer EV are in that premium part of the market). You're not even listening, you're just responding. Good luck talking to yourself.

Car buyers are increasingly using the internet to find dealerships that go at or below MSRP especially with EV's lately. Manufacturers are also leaning toward direct to consumer to cut out those markups and take more of the profit for themselves. Dealers are seeing the writing on the wall.

Your main argument was about affordability not margin, not profit, not features, affordability.

About a year and a half ago now I bought the 2022 Bolt EV 2lt. This was before the price drop. I got it for 4k below MSRP. At the time I was also looking at the Model 3 which was significantly more than the Bolt for not a lot of added value for me. Range was my biggest concern. The Bolt gets 269 miles. The Model 3 gets 273 miles. 4 miles difference for isn't worth 10k or more to me. I don't care if Chevrolet is taking a loss to get a foothold in the market. I care about what comes out of my wallet. That's what most consumers care about.

Companies like Chevrolet will start having more vehicles in that just under 30k market space trying to work their way down to the subcompact market eventually. At the same time they're improving their profitability in the premium and luxury markets by offering their best selling models as updated EV versions and having a hard time keeping up with demand. That means they have some room for going higher on price on those models and finding space for manufacturing improvements to get to market faster at lower cost. That's a constant process within the automotive industry. Companies are investing in their own battery tech, finding strategic partnerships, figuring out recycling, and looking at all the ways they can significantly reduce costs by switching to EV manufacturing in the long term. So prices will be driven down.

What's a base Model 3 right now? 46k for 272 miles of range while Chevrolet was pushing their Bolt EV down for 2023 to 26k for about the same range. How many other competitors are already hitting right in Tesla's price range today; Kia EV6 48.5k, VW ID4 43.5k, Nissan Ariya 43k, Volvo S60 42k, I mean a BMW 330e is listed at 43k MSRP. As traditional car manufacturers begin to shift their product lines they will push those prices down with more bare bones offerings. At the same time also filling in the premium and luxury market gaps with a wider range of options that are familiar to brand loyalists wanting to make the switch. You see it with the Mach E and the Lightning, BMW and Cadillac. Tesla is going to have to do better on price, improve quality, and start offering more differentiation than they do today. They're still far to much of a premium priced product.

Wouldn't it be more like you walk out and find the trash knocked over and think "bears maybe" while everyone else just knows that trash only ever gets dumped over by big foot even though there's no specific proof of big foot. That's how dark matter feels... it's legitimate science's version of sasquatch.