Ok, you're not being objective. You're just pushing back on me based on assumptions.

Have a good one 👍

I don't disagree with you at all. I truly do understand their perspective. It's why I love this hobby and support quite a few of them. Take KBDfans for instance. They aren't even local if you're in the states, but in all my interactions with them over the last 5 years they haven't once led with "it's your fault".

My grievance is with the fact that Novelkeys did. Perhaps that's just their customer service culture, I'm really not sure. I just don't like that type of exchange with a vendor, and being the first time I've dealt with them it just leaves a really poor impression

I wasn't asking them to cover the user error, certainly not in a forceful way. I made that suggestion because other vendors have done that in the past. They want their product back. So I offered to exchange it.

I can see that you are very determined in just defending their position, and that's fine. But if you're really being objective, why does the fact that they acted as if it could ONLY be my fault not resonate with you?

As I said to someone else a minute ago, that's the sole reason I posted this. A vendor should not treat their customers like they can only be at fault. Do you honestly think that's unreasonable?

I get you are defending NK, but you're still missing the whole point. I'm not accusing them of blame. Is that honestly not clear?

I am defending the accusation of being blamed for something from the start. I consider that poor customer service.

Do you think it's ok, to automatically assign blame as your first response from support?

If they had not led with that, I would not have posted this, plain and simple. I'm not sure why you are turning this into more than what it is.

Not dying on this hill my friend, just clarifying wacky misinterpretations of what I posted. Some fanboys are taking it way too seriously. I'm just hoping it helps others.

I use no other recourse because of the following:

My gf got this during the black Friday sale. They have a short 15 day return window. I got it for Xmas. So I can't return it per their policy.

They put the blame on me from the start. I got what was meant to be a new, fully working keyboard. But since the assumption was that it can only be my fault, to get it functional, I either had to attempt to repair it myself or give them money to do so.

Let me ask you, if you buy a car, take it home and it doesn't turn on the next day - do you fix it yourself or pay the dealer to fix it? Nope, you use the warranty. And the dealer won't tell you that X, Y, or C is automatically your fault because you drove it.

I understand my analogy is not completely parallel but it illustrates my point.

The nature of selling a hot swap board is to insert switches. But the policy should not be to not cover any instance of insertion or anything about insertion when that's what the board is designed for.

Are most issues due to user error, yep, they probably are. But are All User error without any reasonable explanation? No they are not, so don't treat your customers like that.

Unfortunately you're completely incorrect.

There is no about face. I was treated like it can only be my fault. My feedback to being treated like that is accurate. So is my advice to others. 1:1 interactions with them, resulted in my being blamed.

Now look at what you wrote as a suggestion what what I should have done:

"I broke my PCB...etc etc" - you know that how? No, actually you don't. If you want to conclude they are in the right and I'm in the wrong, that's fine. That's what these posts are for.

A counter to what I wrote based on the assumption that it can only be my fault, is exactly why I made this post.

And yeah, I knew they are active here, that's the whole point lol. If I didn't I wouldn't purposely post this on mechanical keyboards so others can see what my experience was?? Use a little logic my friend.

And for the record, I'm not badmouthing anyone. I'm sharing my bad experience with them, warning others of it, and already getting refunded. So I'm not looking for anything.

Are you also going to tell me that all sockets don't have dents / imperfections unless a switch has been inserted?

Listen, I'm not trying to argue here. You have your opinion and I respect that.

Your logic doesn't justify my being accused of fault with no other recourse. That isn't fair and it justifies warning others of this.

I didn't automatically assume it was their fault. They, however, did.

In my exchange with them, I even asked / requested that I could send them the PCB in exchange for one that is fully functional. But their position was we can't help you because it's your fault.

Their only offer for repair was at my cost while re-enforcing that it's due to my mishandling it.

They made absolutely no effort in this regard. Without exaggerating, my initial email said "the key doesn't register" - no pics, nothing. Just that.

Their response immediately was that this is due to a bad insertion and popped socket and pushed that from the start.

So no, I didn't assume anything. They did.

Let's assume you are right in your estimate. All of this being judged from a picture and not actually fully testing the socket or having prove of it's condition prior to unboxing.

Do you take that remaining 5%, cast it out and automatically assign blame?

Point is, if the outcome is 100% assignment of blame, in a situation - as you stated - that is 95% certain from a visual inspection - how exactly is that logical?

There is no slander taking place here. Stating that I had a bad customer service experience due to being automatically assigned fault isn't unreasonable.

I don't know honestly. They are adamant they are. I'm not so sure. And without a time machine I can't be 100% certain.

Scripts are absolutely for the 97%. The 3% are the ones who make noise. But the ones who ultimately brand you are the ones who fall through the cracks, and if you know anything about statistics in sales, you know that's due to poor customer handling.

Fair from a business perspective.

If #1 ends up being the issue, and someone reaches out for support and is automatically accused of #2, is that proper customer service though?

I get a vendors perspective. That does not mean they should automatically treat their customers like the only outcome is #2. That's the problem.

That's fair, because I realize you're an outside party seeing all this.

Let me ask you though, because I'm clarifying this at the core of my post - should vendors automatically push blame on their customer from the start?

That's ultimately what happened here. Pics definitely help, especially on a public forum. But the sole purpose of this is to warm others so the back and forth with the vendor doesn't go in this direction like it did with me.

If their strategy is to blame the customer first, I'm just warning others to check everything to protect themselves.

Yeah that's the thing. They really do seem polite - just that in my case it was polite while assigning blame. Blaming me with a smile I guess lol - it just doesn't leave a good impression, especially as a first time customer.

I do wonder what people's experience actually is with them when they have had issues with any of the sockets.

I agree with you completely. From an outside perspective this can easily be seen as a he said / she said situation.

My grievance was with the automatic assumption that it's my fault. And the only real way to actually prove that is to go back in time, never insert a switch, and check every socket for loose contacts or imperfections which I did not.

Automatically assigning fault, isn't fair - that's at the core of this discussion. It's how I was treated so I posted about it, with a warning to future buyers, who based on my experience, will be accused in the same manner.

I don't feel it's unfair to have done that, though obviously that's my opinion 😋 - but to that point, I don't feel it's misleading.

Hey there, I did reply to his feedback. And I added a pic as well from my original email exchange with them.

Just to be clear so people don't misinterpret, I'm not accusing them of trying to rip me off. I'm sharing my poor experience of being automatically blamed for damage - it's why I added the pic of the socket that looks soldered but isn't.

As I stated in my reply, I should have taken pics of every socket for imperfections or anomalies so I'm not automatically blamed - which is the issue at hand.

I'm just warning others so they can take extra steps and make sure this doesn't happen to them if they have issues.

Exactly what receipts do you need to satisfy my discussion?

I didn't add pics at first because the intention was not to come here and try and prove them wrong. It was just to share my experience with them and warn others what to do in detail to protect themselves.

I did add a pic below due to the response from them though

You're totally right. And the crappy thing is I know it. After you build enough of these, you just get in a routine and don't check every little thing. Time to reset that build process for me!

Hey, for fairness sake - the issue was not sorted. They replied with their side, which is fair - but assuming that their side is just automatically correct is not. It's a discussion, which is what I was hoping to have.

I get why you stand by your decision. It's in your interest, especially here.

The reason for the frustration should be obvious. We were left no choice but to pay you more money for a repair, or be left with something that doesn't work. Exactly how does that sound like you are treating a customer well?

Now, where I'm at fault for sure, is by not taking pics of every socket, zoomed in, for imperfections. Here are two of the back of the PCB since we are showing pictures:

https://preview.redd.it/jup4jxj58p8a1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=94197b5b99235c842ce5edbfa91f7f5a87141767

That end with my poorly drawn arrow, turned out to not be actually attached to the solder. Looks like it is, but turns out it wasn't after inspecting it. Looks just like the rest of them on the back.

Now since you went through the logs, you honestly think it's ok to put the blame on your customer from the first email?

I get it, based on what you see, you are making the claim that Im at fault. I honestly wish I had taken pics of everything just to see if every socket is free of Knicks or imperfections.

For me, how this was handled was just poor. Most other companies would have handled this differently, because frankly, they have. And the fact that despite the people that actually post, a lot may have already gone through this experience.

At the end of the day, you did agree to a full refund, so we can part ways cordially. It's just unfortunate that it was handled so poorly because I honestly thought you guys were a stand up company.

I'm just warning people to be careful, because everything will be scrutinized and I don't want others to have the same experience.

Dude, at one point I may have thought that's going overboard, but now...😅

I've never used them before but I'm definitely going to remember. KBDfans has always been really good for me, as well as Demkeebs and Prevail.

It's unfortunate when businesses don't actually care about their customers.

Why would I fixed a faulty product when we paid for a new board in working condition? I take it you buy cars and when they are lemons, you order parts and fix it yourself even though its under warranty? lol