They are addicted to outrage and self-righteousness. Ironically, they fuel the far-right directly and endanger the disadvantaged groups they claim to care about as a result.

> Time to give control of the party back to the sane democrats.

Time to give it back to the adults. The NYU student progressives have no life experience, no sense of nuance, and laughably poor critical thinking skills and shouldn't be anywhere near the levers of power for their own good and the good of everyone else.

> Okay, but the implication you're trying to make from that "fact" (arrest rates are not the same as crime rates) is unsupported by it.

That's not the point I made either explicitly or implicitly. The point I made is that you are wrong; that crime has more causes than just poverty, and in many cases, poverty isn't even the biggest contributing factor.

> The only thing it proves is that you're a racist. Race is irrelevant here.

You call me a racist because you don't have any valid response to what I'm saying. You panic and use whatever you can to avoid looking at the numbers because they totally disprove your very simplistic view of the world.

> And as I said, the data is skewed because black and brown communities are overpoliced.

Wrong again. Victimization surveys mirror the arrest rates given above. Victims themselves, including black and brown victims, identify their attackers in proportion to arrest rates. That's relevant when you claim that poverty causes crime and yet the most impoverished racial group is vastly underrepresented in crime stats.

YOU ARE WRONG. Your feelings don't matter. I'm giving you some very cold hard data that doesn't care about your emotions, and you are flopping around trying your best to ignore it.

> The conclusion you're drawing from it cannot be drawn with that data alone.

Uh, yes, it can. The conclusion I gave was clearly stated as "The group in NYC with the highest poverty rate has the lowest crime rate." That's true and supported by those independent sources. You don't need a sociologist to add an "and" to those sentences.

You tried to discredit the statement with some very poorly-thought-out speculation on your part, and probably didn't take 60 seconds to challenge your own worldview.

Your post is basically over here trying to give justifications for Black/Brown people to beat up Asian people. I would say your rhetoric is provably more dangerous.

There are systemic issues, that doesn't mean they can't be overcome, and that culture and self-reliance aren't more important determining factors of criminality and outcomes.

I gave very, very accurate data on a much larger scale than anything you offered. I gave you two facts together that are very contrary to your view of the world, and you are here making garbage remarks like

> A person can be impoverished and not economically insecure

I honestly can't tell if you're joking with this stuff. You want to believe what you want to believe. Fine. Believe that poverty is insurmountable and the entire world is out to get you. Fail and fail harder. Play the victim. Maybe one day you'll figure out that you're fucking yourself.

That's fair.

Yes, I'm confident in the links I posted. I posted links to data across the entire city of 8 million+ and you posted a link to a study with a sample size of 713.

> Also, it's not exactly hard to look at a crime heat map of NYC and see how it almost directly maps onto the income level of the residents in a given neighborhood. The only exceptions are places like Midtown that have tons of people in them, but very few actual residents so the crime rates get skewed.

And now you're trying to conduct an experiment on the fly with some hand-wavy methodology and random speculation.

Address the data: why does the group with the highest poverty rate in the city have the lowest crime rate? How does that work if poverty is overwhelmingly the strongest predictor of criminality? Does it perhaps suggest that other factors are at play?

Yes, it contributes. How about we list the other factors that contribute? The quality of home life is a vastly stronger predictor of someone growing up to commit crime than poverty. Growing up in a divorced/unmarried household is also a contributing factor. Witnessing adults using violence as a child is an incredibly strong predictor. These are major factors that seem to just get swept under the rug and are strongly tied to culture.

The group in NYC with the highest poverty rate has the lowest crime rate.

Poverty absolutely exacerbates crime, but to claim that it is the overwhelming cause of crime in NYC is not supported by the evidence at all. Actual statistics would suggest a very different story.

>Non-white collar crime is almost directly correlated to economic insecurity.

The group in NYC with the highest poverty rate has the lowest crime rate. Poverty has a correlation with crime, but it isn't anywhere close to the strength you are implying.

There are far larger and more important factors at play here. Your attempts to sweep them under the rug will only make matters worse.

EDIT: Downvote away folks, your view of the world is a joke. A victim mentality will fuck you far harder than your fellow man ever could. Good luck to those of you that are hoping playing the victim will somehow magically unfuck your life.

>Contempt for police is caused by police not by moral decline.

In some cases, but the majority of cases? No, total nonsense.

I'd guess at least 10% of the city has a criminal record. A lot of the angry down-voters are literally criminals themselves. They'll keep blindly raging against law enforcement and social order and wonder why their lives continue to get shittier.

Garbage logic in line with the MAGA morons that said the coronavirus would disappear after the 2020 election and only existed as a political ruse. Crime in NYC provably jumped a huge amount as the pandemic started and has yet to recover to prepandemic levels, even though it has improved.

You're incapable of viewing the issue through a non-political lens or giving two shits about victims of crime.

The city generally feels safer recently vs last year. Last January and February were awful.

"Everyone that complains about crime in NYC is a bit of a troll." - guy from New Jersey

London and Paris aren't particularly safe either. Singapore, Seoul, Tokyo, Amsterdam, Sydney are the ones you'd want to compare to.

> We booed him for giving a bullshit politician answer. I feel it is part of my proud heritage as a New Yorker that I got to personally boo the mayor when I wasn't even old enough to vote for him yet.

This is fantastic.

Happy to give it a watch and give a more detailed response tomorrow. Off the bat, not super impressed with HRW's language covering the incident, which is just excessively biased in favor of protestors with apparently no interest in covering the events dispassionately and accurately. Maybe that's to be expected from a group that probably considers itself pretty anti-cop.

Yes, I don't think the NYPD have a systemic problem with excessive use of force. I interacted with them too many times in too many contexts for your claim to be statistically possible. I saw consistent use restraint in their actions and justifiable force when it was deployed. The abuse from dozen-plus protests I saw was coming solely from protestors (in the form of verbal abuse). That's an actually accurate accounting coming from someone that doesn't really prefer one group over the other.

I just said that I don't doubt the evidence. I doubt that it represents a majority of NYPD behavior or anywhere near enough frequency to judge the entire police force. I'm happy to see evidence used to hold individual officers accountable and punish bad actors.

I didn't say that it didn't happen, it provably did. I very much question the idea that it occurred with enough regularity to justify throwing the entire NYPD under the bus.

Videos that I took yes, although I don't intend to upload them publicly. Many of the protestors that spoke to me asked me not to upload it.

God, just put all the virulently anti-cop people on a boat with all the virulently anti-protestor people and push it out to sea.

My personal experiences at a dozen different protests involved watching cops being goaded and belittled by protestors and not responding. I only saw professional behavior the entire time in Lower Manhattan. The protestors were sometimes aggressive, but I never saw anyone break the law on either side. I've seen a few videos of NYPD abuse, but it didn't seem to be the norm at various protests by any stretch of the imagination.

I went to about a dozen protests in Lower Manhattan, half of them after dark, and saw largely peaceful protestors as well as professional cops. I saw protestors behaving aggressively, provocatively, maliciously, but ultimately legally, and I saw cops that didn't react and allowed the protestors to voice their opinions... loudly. Protestors also successfully occupied the northeast corner of the block around City Hall for over a month.

I think this represents the vast majority of the protester and police interactions during that time period, as much as each extreme refuses to believe it.