Vainpaix

Vainpaix t1_j9ly911 wrote

> 2- Please provide some sort of explanation for you statement that Mithras wasn’t a human, I’m not accepting “No he wasn’t” as a valid answer.

Mithras was literally the incarnation of the light of the Sun, a living attribute of his father's power as the Sun. He slays the bull that becomes the moon, like the sun's rays slays the darkness of night.

> 3- You left off the part where I talked about old stories and myths informing new ones, so if you need everything to line up perfectly before you’ll consider it as possible, we’ll that’s not going to happen for anything that happened prior to about 1300 CE in Europe, and can’t happen for most of European history until the 1600s.

Worship of Christ is older than Roman Mithraism.

> 4- Christianity was also a mystery cult at that time, one of the theories on its rise in popularity was that the Christians didn’t charge an admission fee or the like, unlike most other mystery cults at the time.

Christianity was and is a proselytising religion, the mystery cults meanwhile were akin to Freemasonry in how only a limited number of initiates were allowed and how they were forbidden from sharing with outsiders wtf they were up to.

> 5- As for your statements that the seven sacraments were just a coincidence, you’re stating that two religions being practiced in the same place at the same time (place meaning not just Rome but also the Roman underground caves and public works, time meaning the 1st century CE) independently had similarities going on but that there was no crossover or common source for any of the commonalities, so that’s a claim that needs some backup.

The seven levels of initiatien in Mithraism corresponds to the number of planets, thereby the attributes of the levels; the number of Sacraments within the Chrstian Church varies, the definition of what a Sacrament is varies, but that there are seven was only pegged down within the Catholic Church in 1215, nearly 900-years after Mithraism started its decline. It is coincidental.

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Vainpaix t1_j9ls8pf wrote

> You stated that there was no such deity, I provided evidence that there likely was, and your argument changed

You provided "evidence" for the fact that at a single Germano-Roman settlement there were dedications made to a "Matronae Austriahenae", dedications that fit into a pattern that is most likely to do with local patron spirits and not some "Goddess of Spring", evidence that isn't actually linked to the supposed deity of Eostre when modern phiological methods and historical knowledge is used to evaluate it.

> but that doesn’t speak to your original statement that there wasn’t a goddess associated with Easter.

Where did I say there wasn't? All I said was Eostre was invented by Bede and that Easter is Christian, which isn't diminished by your "evidence".

> You appear to be responding to my “here’s some archeological evidence” with the counter “It’s not enough evidence”, so what would be enough for you? You can take some time to think about it if you’d like, but I won’t be responding to anything else you say or do until you answer this question.

You said it yourself - you are reading all this off Wikipedia, if you want evidence that'll convince me I suggest you look beyond it and read deeper about whatever you want to present as evidence.

> Side note: I won’t accept “scholarship”from overtly pro-Christian sources, I’m asking you for evidence the same way you’re asking me, which means actual objective evidence.

And what is "pro-christian sources" supposed to mean in the contex of material and philiological evidence?

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Vainpaix t1_j9lp1u4 wrote

> That would be the story of a human male born without a human father (or mother, to be fair) by divine power and destined to ascend to divinity

Mithras was not human....

> a god who’s cult used caves as isolated meeting spots just like the early cChristians.

And? Mithraics worshipped in underground chambers and caves because it was a mystery cult, Christians did it because they were a persecuted minority within a persecuted minority....

> and the adherents of said religion recognized seven sacred sacramental practices?

Coincidental. Actually, straight up misleading on your part - levels of initiatien and the number of sacraments is not the same....

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Vainpaix t1_j9lkoys wrote

> over 150 inscriptions from the second century CE devoted to the female goddess Austriahenae

Sure, but when you search about those you learn that they 1) all came from a single settlement and there's no corroborative evidence elsewhere for worship of "Austriahenae", and 2) are dedications that form part of a wider Romano-Germanic pattern of dedications to unknown triumverates of female deities referred to as "Matronae X", "Mothers of X", not singular deities. These two things points to the probable fact that "Matronae X" were patron spirits of settlements and not gods in their own right; the fact that the name "Austriahenae" is probably not wholly Germanic and is partially derived from Celtic also speaks to the fact that it was a name associated with a specific settlement.

> but you do see a lot of depictions of eggs, green grass, baby animals, and fruit flavors, all of which symbolize spring, not torment as a vehicle for redemption or suffering for the sins of others.

The fact Easter has that aesthetic doesn't mean Easter is based on Pagan tradition.

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Vainpaix t1_j9l6uk8 wrote

> Even the life story of Jesus was likely based on the story of Mithras, which was in turn likely based on the story of Horus. This might have been done deliberately to make Christianity more palatable to Romans, or just developed organically as Christianity was gaining acceptance into Rome.

Curious now, what about a full-grown man born from stone is similar to Jesus?

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Vainpaix t1_j9l5k9g wrote

> The birth of Jesus occurs in winter against the actual text of the Bible but perfectly in line with various pagan winter festivals, with a huge amount of how we celebrate Christmas cribbed from Teutonic and Norse traditions.

Pls do tell what Christmas traditions are "cribbed from Teutonic and Norse traditions", because as a "Norse", all our Christmas traditions are post-Chrsitianisation, even post 17th-century.

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Vainpaix t1_j9l3oo0 wrote

> Easter being the most famous example. As far as Easter goes, the pagan celebration of Eostre, goddess of springtime and renewal was held in spring with baby animals, eggs, and fresh grass.

Eostre was invented by Bede, there is literally zero evidence besides his passing mention of her anywhere else, it is fantasy layered atop folk etymology. It is actually hilarious that people believe a supposed Germanic goddess gave rise to Easter since we know it has been celebrated since the 2nd-century in the Eastern Mediterranean by the original Judeo-Christians, that the date it was to be celebrated on was a whole controversy that took a couple of hundred years to set in stone, and traces its name in most languages to the Hebrew word for the Passover (Pesach) because the ressurection coincided with it.

> A more modern theory, though, is that the word "Easter" originated from a mistaken interpretation of the early Latin-speaking Christians' designation of Easter week as hebdomada alba, or "the week of albs," because of the white robes worn by baptismal candidates during that time. Although in this context "alba" serves as the feminine form of "albus," meaning "white," some thought it was the word "alba" meaning "dawn."

> Old High German speakers took the word "alba" to mean "dawn" and started referring to the holiday as "eostarun," which meant "dawn" in their language. "Eostarun" eventually evolved into the contemporary German word for Easter, "Ostern," and then the English "Easter."

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Vainpaix t1_j92wq31 wrote

Disney murdered Treasure Planet - the two animators/directors who made the Disney Renaissance of the 90s a thing continually asked Disney's CEO for years for a chance to reimagine Treasure Island, only to be told to do movie after movie they didn't really wanna make, eventually though they got the greenlight. By the time the movie was ready however said CEO was gone and a new board of directors had taken charge, and they didn't care that Treasure Planet was a passion project by their best staff, instead only caring it had went over budget and been delayed, so they gave it a bad release date, a low advertising budget, spoiled the end of the movie in said low budget ads, and also hammered it in in said ads that the movie would be on DVD within a short amount of time, in effect dissuading theaterviewing.

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