I thought you just saw one person voting with FL plates, not 100.

Only needs to be passed before next fall, because we’d spring forward either way

I mean, you’re correct that Trump has been 10x worse in this regard. But to say Clinton’s actions aren’t problematic is just willful ignorance. She conceded shortly after the election but then proceeded to say the election was stolen and that Trump is an illegitimate president for years afterwards. This has become a new norm in American politics, and I’d be pleasantly surprised if there aren’t several losing candidates in 2022 who claim they lost due to a rigged election

That doesn’t make him illegitimate, and you could argue it’s a threat to democracy to try to contest it on that basis, especially after the fact. I voted Hillary, I think Trump is a moron and uses dangerous rhetoric, but I still wouldn’t try to advance the claim that Trump is illegitimate or that Hillary won

That’s such a weak argument though. The electoral college has already been in place for how long? Sure, we can advocate for change and try to establish a new/better system, but if those were the rules going in, it’s ridiculous to try to claim victory or an illegitimate president based on winning some other metric (i.e. popular vote).

Have you paid any attention to American politics for the past 20+ years? Election denial has been a thing since at least Bush v Gore, although Trump was clearly the most extreme offender. That said, people including Hillary Clinton claimed for years that Trump was an illegitimate president. Likewise, Biden’s message of “you can only vote for our party if you want to preserve democracy” seems laughable. Thanks for telling me I only have one choice in this so-called democracy.

I voted almost solely for democrats in 2022, and I’ll likely begrudgingly support Biden or whoever the Dems run in 2024 because I could never support someone as radical as Trump (or Desantis), but to act like the Dems aren’t election deniers too seems willfully ignorant

This is such a bizarre argument. Ik it has kind of crept into the mainstream discourse, but it still feels very tin-foil hat-ish.

There are plenty of good reasons to vote for Dems, particularly given the economy and the resulting need for reasonable social safety nets and tax plans that favor average Joes over big businesses. Saying if they lose, we’ll never have a choice again is just ridiculous

I voted early and voted McKee, but I didn’t automatically write her off because she has an R next to her name or because she had an expensive wedding. Like you, I genuinely have no idea why this would matter or why people would make fun of her for it.

I think some people, particularly those on Reddit, just like to hate on everyone who’s more well off than they are (i.e. almost everyone).

It feels like the most expensive city if you’ve never lived in any other city. I agree that Providence in 2022 feels a lot more expensive than Providence in 2019 (or certainly compared to much longer ago), but it’s by no means the most expensive in the country.

>No, when we build the accessible lane, you HAVE to use it. And since you drive, everyone else drives. eyeroll

No idea what you’re even responding to here. I think you misinterpreted what I was saying.

Anyway, kind of tired of dealing with your pompous know-it-all attitude and self righteous manner of conversing. We clearly don’t see eye to eye and likely never will.

>Wait, are you telling me Providence was built when cars were around or did we accommodate them over time while ignoring other modes of transit?

We’re not moving back to less efficient modes of transportation as out primary means of getting around. It’d be nice to have more options, but I will still need to drive when I go to work in the morning.

>We just started putting in this accessible infrastructure a few years ago. We're currently catching up to other cities. Your suggestion to continue to cater to only cars is kinda fucking stupid and goes against all science and basic reasoning.

You continue to ignore the fact that Hope St is in the middle of a residential area, not a city downtown. There are many locals like myself that can walk to anywhere on Hope St, but people coming in from more than a mile or so away are going to drive.

>Most are but again, not the point.

This is an assertion of yours without evidence. Perhaps this is why many of the business owners see it differently than you. Presumably if they thought this change would help business, they would all be fully supportive.

>oh no, they might need to walk 30 extra seconds!

And possibly waste twenty minutes driving in circles looking for a spot while polluting the environment.

>"Transportation is the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in Rhode Island. Vehicles accounted for 35.5% of total greenhouse gas emissions in 2017." - RI DEM

My point was that if you live sufficiently close that you have the option of biking or walking, your drive would be so short that the impact on emissions would be negligible. And if you live 5+ miles away, you’re probably not considering biking to dinner to begin with.

>What are you... you're literally playing the typical republican, car obsessed American here.

Our cities aren’t designed to get around solely by walking, biking, and relying on public transit. You can call me car obsessed all you want, but I don’t see any other way that I could practically survive while living on the East side.

>Most people own bikes and have families, and they want the Hope St. bike trail according to surveys, again, primarily for safety reasons as stated in the community meetings.'

Most people going out to dinner at Wara Wara are not biking there, with or without the bike trail. I’m not doubting that a number of very vocal people want the bike trail, but soon we will have a bunch of vocal people complaining about the lack of parking.

>Huh...? Bro. I have a cheap bike I sometimes use to commute short distances like many others. I drive, I bus, I walk. The typical resident in the area likely doesn't even own a car as students may be the majority on the East Side, but that's not the point.

Congrats! I’m sure your decision to bike 1 mile to Hope St instead of driving has really put a dent in global warming.

This feels like I’m arguing with someone who makes AOC look like a tea party conservative.

It’s great that you bike everywhere and hang out with other like-minded cyclists, but that doesn’t mean you represent the standard resident or potential customer. The average person is not completing the Tour de France prior to sitting down for tapas and cocktails.

Hope St is not that crowded if you’re comparing it to any city area. If you’ve never ventured outside RI, take a trip to NYC or any major city and tell me how similar it is to Hope St.

If you’re Wara Wara, KG Kitchen, or any other sit down restaurant on Hope St, your typical customer is not coming via bicycle.

Pretty much all prior studies examine whether it impacts businesses in crowded city areas, not in more suburban areas like the east side. Also, parking on Hope st can already be a pain sometimes. I can only imagine how bad it would be if you take away half the spots.

>Well, if they ignorantly think it'll harm their business and go against the community, well, they reap what they sow.

Assuming you're correct and they're not. Which may or may not be true.

>Uh... you realize that the US Department of Transit, the entire Urban Transit and planning fields, and even the United Nations supports this infrastructure due to the overwhelming evidence, right? This isn't just reviews, there are thousands of peer reviewed studies and case studies on this. It's been implemented around the world, this ain't new. What's next, wind turbines cause cancer? Come on.

Let's see these peer reviewed studies you speak of. I can almost guarantee you're extrapolating the results of some studies that analyze densely populated urban areas to the East side of providence which is more of a suburban part of a small- to mid-sized city.

​

>The loudest people are the minority against it. Demonstrated in full force at the community meetings.

It's the minority tho. Doesn't mean that they represent the average resident.

>Please cite your evidence.

Which part?

>Perhaps you should read the evidence instead of basing your opinion on feelings.
>
>Lastly, you keep harping on the business point and ignoring people actually fucking dying and being too scared to even go on Hope St. Why? What about everyone else in the area who doesn't drive cars? What about climate change? Is this worth 1-2 parking spots per business?

Not based on feelings. I feel like you're the one who will back any position that fits your personally preferred outcome without evidence. I live right off of Hope St and have not seen or heard of any deaths or severe injuries during my time here. That kind of alarmism makes for a good "holier than thou" argument tho, so kudos on that.

And climate change? Give me a break. People aren't going to be biking 5-10 miles to go out to eat, and using or not using 0.1 gallons of gas isn't going to have any real impact. Hope St. parking gets crowded as-is without closing off one side of the street.

>It sounds like you're suggesting they care more about their business than the community. Can you clarify?

What is there to clarify? If you own a business and your livelihood is tied to that business, then you’ll tend to oppose proposals if you think they’ll harm your business. Not much of a hot take.

>It is unfortunate they don't look at the evidence. From the reviews, it's costing them. They put out a public stance against the community, the community reacted. They're also losing business only catering to cars in a huge non-car user area, oh well... shrug

I’m not sure that a small sample of recent reviews can be used as broader evidence. It’s usually just the loudest people like yourself who will complain in public forums.

>Just like many other businesses on Hope who support it, I'd support it as well. It's been implemented in cities throughout the world and every single time, there's a few businesses who complain and are proven wrong -- every, single, time. More people walk, bike, use scooters, etc, than these businesses care to consider.

It’s an interesting question to see if the policy would help or hurt business. Keep in mind that Hope St is not some crowded downtown area where walking/biking/public transit may be significantly more convenient. Although I would personally think the loss of parking would be a negative for business, I’m not so smug to imply I know what’s best for them and their business with 100% certainty. Perhaps you should be the next Mayor.

I’m just saying, they presumably are taking their stance on the matter solely based on the business they own and less so based on their views on public policy more broadly.

They must believe they get more customers who drive to their establishment than bike there, and so they want to preserve the parking that exists. It’s not like these businesses have their own private parking lots.

I like the idea of making providence more bike friendly in general, but if I were a business owner I’d probably be against it too purely for business reasons

How is that “getting political”? God forbid a business prefers to have more parking in front of their establishment

It is kinda funny on this sub how everyone’s first reaction to a new housing development is to complain that there isn’t more low-income housing being developed