Tldr; Go back to Twitter with your C-average elementary school education where you belong instead of pretending to plug your ears because you know you don't have a retort to the pioneers of labor movements literally preaching capitalistic economic theories.

If you want socialism to succeed, stop trying to champion it because you're an idiot who makes it look bad.

I didn't say Marxism. I said Marxian... But I'm assuming you're actually what you're accusing me of, someone who scans wikipedia to form an argument he has already made and thus you don't know that 19th century Socialist movements, the basis for modern socialist beliefs, literally derive their definition of socialism from Karl Marx's writings...

And no, unions exploded because the industrial revolution and its emphasis on productivity and value. And the pioneers of labor unions were undoubtedly driven by the Ricardian labor theory of value, which is inarguably a capitalist theory. The leaders of both the Knights of Labor and the NLU, which were at the forefront of the labor movement, were driven by this.

You're fucking stupid and have literally no idea what you're talking about. But your argument about unions being an achievement of socialism is a pretty good example of socialism in that it takes the accomplishments of others and attempts to dole them out to those uninvolved.

It’s not the first sentence of any wiki, it’s just acknowledging what it is. Socialism isn’t some broad, undefinable word. It has a very tight definition as to what it is… The Marxian command structure literally doesn’t have spot for independent unions and no iteration since snd in between actually includes independent unions. Claiming unions are a socialist concept is and always has been an attempt to court blue collar union workers to accept socialist concepts when in reality the heart of socialism would turn the fruits of union productivity snd labor into community property.

You don’t get to just redefine the word socialism into whatever fits your argument. Socialism is a set of beliefs about governance, workers banding together within one one sector or one workplace is not… Two things aiming for similar results none very specific category of societal good don’t make them the same thing. Which is why every poll shows actual union members vote evenly split across political parties and are over 60% neutral towards socialism.

Again, I think you need to actually look up what socialism is instead of typing these walls of nonsense. Unionization is literally capitalism for the working class. Workers monopolizing their labor for maximum value. Just because they have perceived similar aims, the betterment of workplaces, doesn’t make them the same or even remotely the same.

Socialism is the means of production being owned by the community as a whole, not the workforce. Workers banding together to ensure full value from their labor through collective bargaining is one of the best examples of capitalism as it pertains to the blue collar worker… Socialism would be elected officials negotiating on behalf of the worker at the behest of the entire populace.

You need to go look up what socialism actually means…