LostN3ko
LostN3ko t1_j1vwgvh wrote
Reply to comment by MayorOfSmurftown in Is it possible to Live Forever? by gg2ezpzlemonsqz
From the moment of divergence they begin to have unique experiences that make their self a different person than the others. 10 selfs. Each with their own end and none of which will be a shared experience meaning they are not the same self anymore.
Identical twins start out as one egg with a shared experience. After separating they become two selfs each unique. Identical twins are not a version of immortality.
There is a wishy washy version of immortality here but it's the same one we have always had, legacy through progeny. Your children were once part of your body, you split them off, they grew into new selfs and you passed on your memories, opinions and stories to them and they carry them forward. Offspring, pictures, movies, stories, histories, crafted materials, art and fame all fall into this psudo immortality of keeping your memory alive, a little bit of you as people like to say. None of these are true immortality where a self does not die.
LostN3ko t1_j1vqhxh wrote
Reply to comment by MayorOfSmurftown in Is it possible to Live Forever? by gg2ezpzlemonsqz
Before you ask me to solve a 2000 year old philosophical paradox please explain in what world view can I wake up in someone else's body.
For the purpose of this discussion we have to assume a self exists. If we don't then there is no point continuing the discussion as no one exists anymore and no amount of clones change that and immortality explicitly doesn't exist. If a self is only alive for one day again immortality no longer exists. The only philosophical realm where immortality exists is where every person has a self and that self has a timeline beginning with birth and ending with death. Immortality is a self with a birth but no foreseeable death.
Now if I have 10 clones they are all discrete individuals. They each have their own feelings thoughts sense of individuality. They are not a hive consciousness they are each a unique instance with unique selfs. Each of which dies when their body dies. Not one of them is immortal.
LostN3ko t1_j1vk9fj wrote
Reply to comment by MayorOfSmurftown in Is it possible to Live Forever? by gg2ezpzlemonsqz
If I have 10 clones in a room with me there are 11 discrete individuals in the room each with their own thoughts and opinions and only one of them is you. It doesn't matter how many clones you make none of them will be you. Identical twins are clones of each other but that doesn't make either of them immortal even if they both had complete retrograde amnesia they are not immortal. You keep saying "wake up in a clone body" but that can not happen, the clone can wake up and think it is the original but it would still be it's own person. If I have 100 clones they can all believe they are the original but none of them are the original. If I woke up with only the memories of King James in my head I would still not be King James and he did not just become immortal. I feel like this point is being lost on you. Even if the self dies every night and a new self wakes it the morning with all of the memories in the bodies brain that self will still not be King James.
LostN3ko t1_j1vd719 wrote
Reply to comment by MayorOfSmurftown in Is it possible to Live Forever? by gg2ezpzlemonsqz
Um in which case you don't need clones if your reborn every day then congrats everyone is you and your already immortal or you can never live more than 1 day and you'll never be immortal. So either way this whole question is moot and having clones changes nothing. Not sure why this view of the self cares if clones exist or not.
LostN3ko t1_j1rvhv8 wrote
Reply to comment by MayorOfSmurftown in Is it possible to Live Forever? by gg2ezpzlemonsqz
Ah different than your previous suggestion. I was answering that "you" can't wake up as your clone, your clone is a separate person from you. But yes I agree I have no proof that I am the same person because we have no empirical way to judge the authenticity of an individual's personality. It is an emergent property of a system. It's not any one part of you but the synergistic effect of the combination. If you were to produce an atom for atom recreation of every part of your brain it would still not be you.
LostN3ko t1_j1r8uwk wrote
Reply to comment by [deleted] in Is it possible to Live Forever? by gg2ezpzlemonsqz
It is doing some heavy lifting. 2000 year old question about the fundamental nature of the self with no solution in sight, a mere speedbump in the road to immortality.
LostN3ko t1_j1r1w96 wrote
Reply to comment by MayorOfSmurftown in Is it possible to Live Forever? by gg2ezpzlemonsqz
The clone would wake up and realize it was a clone since its inception a few moments ago. It has your memories but it has no past of its own. You would still be dead.
Defining "you" here is the key to this debate.
LostN3ko t1_j1r13cc wrote
Reply to comment by Qowegishomo in Is it possible to Live Forever? by gg2ezpzlemonsqz
I love how you dismiss the ship of theseus as pointless and act like we have any idea of the true nature of the self. In order to have any discussion of mind transfer, teleportation or the brain in general there are age old unsolved philosophical questions that must be answered to have any sort of emperical proof of concept. You obviously know the topic as you point to continuity but continuity is not enough.
You are not the same person you were 10 years ago. If I replace every cell in your body one by one with a nano machine that replicated the cells function you would maintain continuity but would you call 100% flesh you the same person as 100% nanobot you? How could you test that question? How can you prove any being is a specific person or not? Continuity can solve the legal problem but not the metaphysical one.
Consciousness has a lot of complicated gotchas in it for existing technology. Was phineas gage the same person before and after or people with retrograde amnesia. How much of the personality is just memories and how much is an emergent property?
LostN3ko t1_je3rzqf wrote
Reply to comment by BensDrawings in Nutty, Me, Graphite/Charcoal, 2022 by BensDrawings
Mhmm magic. Got it.
Seriously amazing. Still not sure if it's a photo or not.