Comments
ventus1b t1_j3yi8a6 wrote
It’s good to see the European energy market at work, but unfortunately Germany also had to increase burning coal to achieve that.
Broficator t1_j3z5jv5 wrote
why the fuck am i paying 45 cents for a kwh then, jesus christ.
NinerNational t1_j3zbhyt wrote
Makes me feel really good about my 12 cents a kWh.
LudSable t1_j3zcjrj wrote
And Sweden having to export to Germany to fill the demand
Typohnename t1_j3zcssu wrote
How would that poor RWE chairman pay for his private island otherwise?
Akiasakias t1_j3zdolu wrote
Germany uses Hollywood style accounting to shuffle significant lignite coal power production into its solar ledger. Takes a whole day to switch over when weather changes but they count it all as 100% solar.
Their solar investments have been GREAT for the technology. But it's been pretty shitty for power output.
They have spent more than California and produce a fraction of the power. Why? Simple amount of sunshine.
Solar in Germany is all about feelings and wishes and nothing about math. The earth is not flat.
Put that shit in Spain and import it. Much cheaper, much more efficient.
[deleted] t1_j3zo1dp wrote
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Simulator5G t1_j3ztieq wrote
It’s feasible, you just need to use a giant laser to beam the energy to its destination. Or you could use wires.
Successful-Okra-1317 t1_j4024la wrote
Taxes and fees on the base price dont help
xav2727 t1_j40547f wrote
Thanks to coal i would say
surreal3561 t1_j4069v6 wrote
They don’t help, but they also haven’t really increased in the recent years while the price per kWh doubled and tripled.
Durion23 t1_j409amq wrote
To simplify: Because to stimulate the growth of renewable energy and to secure energy accessibility, in the early EU there are several agreements in place for the energy market - for example to always pay the highest price of the energy mix that is currently in use. Cheapest are wind and solar, followed by other renewables, coal, nuclear and finally the most expensive: gas. If energy demand is too high, German gas reactors go live, and even if you’d receive 90% renewables and only 10% gas you’d pay 100% the gas price for all of it.
This is why there are reforms discussed in the EU with the plan to implement them in 2023.
derkonigistnackt t1_j40a0eo wrote
You are getting down voted but it's true. The greens are not the brightest ones in germany, neither is the sun. Renewable energy is a highly geography dependent tech. In Germany wind makes sense, solar doesn't. As simple as that.
Amtsschreiber t1_j40as01 wrote
> Put that shit in Spain and import it. Much cheaper, much more efficient.
Yeah, because the last year has taught us that it's totally no problem to depend on another country for half of your energy needs.
Akiasakias t1_j40c149 wrote
I am also a green. Just one who can do math 😔
Don't mind being unpopular. Everything I said is backed up by data. Need to say it moreso because of the reactions.
kraenk12 t1_j40d7te wrote
Certainly not in Germany. They’ve barely gone up in recent years.
TimaeGer t1_j40e7rr wrote
Especially as France has a price cap on electricity...
DasEisgetier t1_j40hhvn wrote
Yeah, I hope they hurry the fuck up, because I can barely afford to keep the fridge running.
Successful-Okra-1317 t1_j40hl7d wrote
19% Value-added tax for an almost basic need is still a lot. Over all more than 50% of the price is just for the state.
Edit: i am lagging two years behind
Durion23 t1_j40hwtk wrote
We all do.
kraenk12 t1_j40iq2h wrote
What are you talking about?
“Die Steuer beträgt seit 2003 unverändert 20,50 Euro je Megawattstunde (2,05 Cent je Kilowattstunde, das sind weniger als 7 Prozent des durchschnittlichen Haushaltsstrompreises).“
Mehrwertsteuer are 16% which makes overall taxes less than 1/4.
RichardCheeseLicker t1_j40kqiu wrote
You should replace it with a stationery one or cut off the feet. No one needs a running fridge.
Assmodean t1_j40le9c wrote
Where do you guys live? My electricity bill did increase by quite a bit too but that is just about 25 bucks a month. Statistically, mine was on on the higher end of the increase in Germany, too, so I really don't get the hyperbole.
hcschild t1_j40lofk wrote
You can do math? Are you sure you didn't mean meth?
But feel free to show us your math for forms of energy that can be produced in Germany that are not polluting and cheaper than solar or wind. ;)
SeinTheTraveler t1_j40lxpj wrote
Where the hell is all that power then .. the bills shot into the stratosphere ! The energy sector is the new oil Trading it seems
SplitToWin t1_j40m5hb wrote
Did the german goverment not pay for the price hike and therefor took a giant deficit?
Not all europeans have their goverment pay for the price increase.
nmgzzptswjmlsasgjtsw t1_j40nj0u wrote
Many EU countries essentially built their grids with Russian natural operating as its backbone. Getting off Russian gas is looking more and more a certainty than a year ago when it was viewed as just theoretical. But that doesn't mean it hasn't come as a huge cost. Importing natural gas from the Middle East and North America or maximizing European sources (Norway and Scotland among others) comes with increased costs. Also getting more natural gas from overseas require additional LNG terminals and that is all being paid for by European utility customers.
Renewables also are very top heavy when it comes to their costs. The initial act of buying and installing them and updating the grid to handle their energy production is a big up front cost. The long run savings come after because wind and solar with facilities with routine maintenance can reliably provide several decades of electricity generation while needing smaller crews to maintain them. Other power facilities such as NG, coal and especially nuclear need large, very highly trained crews at all times for successful operation.
Assmodean t1_j40o6p7 wrote
Sorry, considering we were talking about German energy prices, my thought was that they were from Germany, too.
Fishydeals t1_j40p2qx wrote
Exported to Austria where people paid 20ct/kwh. You can't make this shit up.
Fishydeals t1_j40pp8z wrote
So how do we get all that energy from spain back to germany without losing like 30-50% to transporting it back?
Solar might not be the best option for germany, but it would help if conservative parties like the csu would drop their ridiculous rules like 'the distance from a wind turbine to the nearest settlement needs to be its height times 10'. It's the same people who get drunk on the oktoberfest with people from all over the world, puke everywhere in the city and trains and then oppose cannabis legalization with big publicity because they do not want drug tourism. Thank god these idiots are slowly dying.
Ooops2278 t1_j40pzbq wrote
You forgot cursing the stupid Germans for ruining energy prices with their gas dependency, while they export electricity not produced by gas to countries running their electric grid on up to 50% gas.
ekobar t1_j40q0o2 wrote
Can i see that math?
Fishydeals t1_j40qdrj wrote
They could just tell eon and rwe to shut up and take the loss or subsidize it. But nooo. Gotta squeeze some more cash out of the poorest citizens.
If you have any kind of 'living comfortable' money you have solar panels or some other renewable energy thing going for your home anyway and probably laugh about the peons considering if they really need to run the washing machine again.
ekobar t1_j40qooz wrote
Solar does make sense and you clearly don't know what you are talking about.
Would a solar power plant make sense? No. Are they build in Germany? No Would decentralized solar panels, which are used directly in the households that produce them? Yes and they already did. Is this the way it is done in Germany? Yes. Is it effective? Yes.
But for someone who thinks "sPaIn hot! sOlAr gOoD! gErMaNy cOlD! sOlAR bAd" this is probably going over your head. That is your thinking on the level of a fucking toddler who just learned the hard way that cooking fields are hot.
Fascinating how someone with no idea or knowledge of the topic is so sure and is calling other people and around 30% of Germans dumb.
WasabiTotal t1_j40qv63 wrote
Damn.. I haven’t seen 12 cents for like 3 years. 56 cents in november
[deleted] t1_j40r4so wrote
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Janni0007 t1_j40th89 wrote
No, they capped it at a high level i think 42 ct per kwh. Prices were at 20 ct before the war
Janni0007 t1_j40tmdx wrote
You would be wrong then. Germany has been exporting electricity since 2003 mainly due to wind
[deleted] t1_j40tmps wrote
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Janni0007 t1_j40tw1i wrote
How dense do you need to be to understand that germany is a NET exporter meaning we export more than we import. The electricity crisis is not of german make. We are importing a ton of electricity from sweden and export it further in the european net. We export to austria, swiss, france and Poland. If you want to complain, I suggest not picking the country with the biggest electricity export in europe this year
Divinate_ME t1_j40u376 wrote
Yeah, but in the coming years it will be probably moist enough for the French rivers to carry enough water to properly cool their reactors, so this won't be the standard for to long, as it has been during the last decade or so.
Mortumee t1_j40w5va wrote
For the general population yes. For businesses that's different, some bakers have an electricity bill almost 10x what it was last winter.
Skarleu t1_j40yfrl wrote
Germany it net exporting electricity since 20 years, so it is pretty much standard
[deleted] t1_j40ykr7 wrote
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Durion23 t1_j40zmrj wrote
As it is with all these things: it’s complicated. I’m from Germany, at least. To be very brief: German Gas consumption is rather high per capita, since a lot of our homes are heated with gas only, many of our industries need gas as fuel or ingredient, whether it is for the steel industry or chemical industry and so on. Gas was meant to be a cheap bridge from coal to renewable, but because of some peculiar political decisions, the incentive to lower gas consumption just kicked into effect before the war. And price wise that only became a problem as soon as gas prices exploded and the expectation that gas could be scarce (which ultimately didn’t happen) triggered enormous prices for gas consumption, since our gas tanks are still filled with the expensive gas, even if the price sinks.
And without jeopardizing the economy, private people but the deficit as well, what the German state payed is limited and nowhere near the actually price hike especially low and middle income households are struggling to keep up with.
ekobar t1_j4113ra wrote
If you are so smart, then tell me how do you bring that power to Germany? And that without the any lost? Dude you are embarrassing yourself.
You have clearly not any knowledge about, solar engery, power grids and yet physics alone. Fuck off and take a seat in the back, when people talk who actually know that stuff. Fucking uneducated moron.
Acoasma t1_j413lak wrote
to be fair gas prices at the market are down to pre war levels, even below that. Not arguing that the market mechanism is fine the way it is, but right now the problem for consumers is when energy providers will pass on those cheaper prices.
Mackzim t1_j414gzh wrote
Now that's some fucking bullshit if I've ever read some.
derkonigistnackt t1_j4158ga wrote
Bring what power? You sound like an agressive scared chihuahua chasing its own tail. Your fingers go faster than your tiny chihuahua brains and im pretty sure you're trying to respond to another poster.
Akiasakias t1_j415a57 wrote
Transmission is not terrible. You lose a few % but it's way more efficient than the change in sun angle going north.
Akiasakias t1_j415ljl wrote
Well nuclear is honestly the smartest choice for Germany specifically. Would take them a decade or more though.
[deleted] t1_j415v77 wrote
kitnex t1_j418hkt wrote
France had to pretty much shutdown large parts of their nuclear power plants due to maintenance and too high temperatures in summer. Therefore imports surged.
Fishydeals t1_j419vnb wrote
Then why go to spain and not north africa? It's way cheaper, better angle and more sun hours.
elcrack0r t1_j41fw46 wrote
It's been a fact for many years that Germany is a net exporter of electricity.
ekobar t1_j41ifpw wrote
That is wrong. Transmission lost would be terrible over this distance, the lost of power rises exponatial over distance. More then "a few percent". You also don't calculate in your "investment" the cost of building these land lines. What land lines do you want to build for that? Over- or Underground? If you go underground then the lost is even worse and good luck building 2000km of multiple overground landlines trough Europe without massive delays through politics and policies.
Also still waiting on the math you did, which the greens can't do and you did!
Mackzim t1_j41j43i wrote
It's a fact that i pay 5x what I paid last year (reason given is shortage), while we export these kinds of amounts.
Germany is the wallet of the EU for too many years now..
SplitToWin t1_j41xlhm wrote
Exatcly what I wrote
[deleted] t1_j421zj6 wrote
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ceratophaga t1_j422l4y wrote
> Would a solar power plant make sense? No. Are they build in Germany? No
My morning jogging route takes me along two of them. Granted, they aren't large, but they do exist. The funny thing is: If they exist, someone sat down and calculated that they'd make a profit off of them, so I'd say they work.
ekobar t1_j4273oc wrote
Yes there are some, but they make a small part of the current percentage of generated solar power. And i don't know about any larger projects in planning.
Akiasakias t1_j42co25 wrote
It is, and that is an option being considered. Sicily is also pretty good.
Transmission across the Mediterranean sounds difficult.
Akiasakias t1_j42ehfv wrote
Will have to circle back Saturday with the data. I'm currently 2000 miles from home. Small town with limited internet and no access to my files.
Best I can do from my snow bunker are resources like this. https://globalsolaratlas.info/map?c=11.523088,8.261719,2
Red or orange, solar is great economic and environmental.
Yellow it is probably break even. Worth doing for environment reasons. But may not be a great investment.
Green or worse you are probably never going to make back the carbon debt of blast furnacing the silicon into panels.
[deleted] t1_j42gp39 wrote
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lil_sh_t t1_j42renr wrote
Gonna save this shitshow of a comment section and send it to everybody who claims that reddit is overwhelmingly pro German
elcrack0r t1_j42twvw wrote
I paid 27ct per kwh last year, now it's 45ct per kwh. You're lying. Noone paid 9ct per kwh since at least 20 years.
hcschild t1_j43q5zx wrote
So you want the source of energy that is one of the most expensive ones to be our main source of energy? Doesn't sound very smart.
ekobar t1_j46fgzh wrote
Yeah still nothing about how to get the energy from Spain to Germany and the econmical effect of that.
What does it help the German energy grid if you produce the power in Spain? How does that help the supply?
Since you always talk about investement may think about the the macroeconmical factors for Germany to build and invest in their own infrastructur. You see this very one dimensional, more sun = more money. Nothing is that simple.
> Red or orange, solar is great economic and environmental. > > Yellow it is probably break even. Worth doing for environment reasons. But may not be a great investment.
No that is your interpretation and it is wrong. The colors show the output, which is in southern Spain 40% higher then in Germany. Sorry but your source does not even help your point.
The one thing i still can't see is your math ;)
[deleted] t1_j4cfzdg wrote
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green_flash OP t1_j3yeevl wrote
> While Switzerland and Austria were the main export destinations, in a notable shift Germany exported more to France than it imported as the nuclear-reliant country grappled with technical problems at its reactors that curtailed production.
> Germany's export surplus grew to 27.5 terawatt hours (TWh) compared with 20.8 TWh a year earlier, according to utility industry association BDEW - in tune with a handful of other recent comments.