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TheShadow8909 t1_j631p80 wrote

Friendships end on the topic of money ... The problem is telling your people that you will have to help pay the debt of another country because of their own incompetence ... Voting people don't like that

33

GotThoseJukes t1_j667fc8 wrote

Outside of slavery this was probably the biggest issue with the early federation of the US. It’s a hard pill to swallow and I don’t see anyone in the more affluent EU countries wanting to share debt.

6

TheShadow8909 t1_j68gqtx wrote

Like the problem is that people compare it with their own expirience and be like "pff ... the other person got in debt themselves so it's their own fault and not my problem" ... the problem is that this mentality doesnt work on a country scale but people are so ignorant that they dont care and stop listening

1

sXyphos t1_j634jax wrote

I quite agree with Germany' stance on this, we're not at the point where everyone in the EU thinks of the broader alliance as a whole.

There are countries not even on the same wavelength..., why should we pay Hungary' Putin schlong loving dictator wannabe deficit when he'll give people free stuff to stay in power?

Or the deficit of some super pro immigration(without any filtering) country when it starts "burning"?

My country would benefit greatly from this and i still think it's a stupid ideea at this time...

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MrHazard1 t1_j63616y wrote

I'm totally with you, here. We're already paying the most into EU, and i'm fine to have that money used for development. But most countries that draw that money out, do that because they handle the money badly. At that point we have 3 options.

1)Pay up and be screwed over by countries taking the money and doing shit with it

2)Don't pay and be the bad one for leaving fellow countries hanging

3)Lend money with the hook, that you NEED to improve. We did that with greece and were immediately told off for trying to bully sovereign countries in their ways.

Can't win, whatever you do

17

Barabasbanana t1_j63yd8x wrote

German taxpayers already subsidise and invest in many EU countries, they shouldn't be on the hook for fiscal issues of bad governance surely?

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autotldr t1_j62x7wo wrote

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 51%. (I'm a bot)

> Germany's finance ministry firmly rejected proposals on new European Union joint debt on Thursday, saying such a move, backed by France and European Council President Charles Michel, was not needed and would send a wrong signal to markets.

> German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has made clear that he believes there is still a lot of untapped EU money - more than €200 billion - from the EU's post-pandemic recovery fund that should be used first before any discussions on new funding.

> Draft conclusions for an upcoming EU summit in February showed that leaders are to back new EU funding for the green tech industry to counterbalance subsidies in the United States and China, and will expect the EU executive Commission to come up with a plan for a European Sovereignty Fund to support investment.

Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: European^#1 fund^#2 debt^#3 ministry^#4 new^#5

3

CompositeBeing t1_j6301rh wrote

The discussion from the previous year led to first cracks in Euro zone and a common currency as ECB has a tough job trying to please countries like Germany and Italy with the same policy. Some Germans economists expressed their warnings that if ECB continues that path they will convince their nation to get back to DM.

2

Gluca23 t1_j656rpc wrote

Hey, EU need money to found Hungary, come on :D

1

shortmock t1_j631jiz wrote

In sickness and in health.

But mostly, only in health.

−7

Joseph20102011 t1_j630avu wrote

Germany proves itself that in times of a European crisis, it is not capable of being the leader for the entire European Union.

−37

Cuntcalled t1_j633989 wrote

Germany spends way more money for europe then any other country. Just stop spreading lies if you dont know shit.

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Joseph20102011 t1_j6352wq wrote

But when it comes to the proposal of bailing out southern European countries during the 2009-12 Euro crisis via fiscal stimulus, it was Germany and other northern European countries who opposed it and these southern European countries still suffer the negative effects of austerity.

−8

11nerd11 t1_j639plb wrote

Well yeah we already pay more into the EU fund than anyone else. And we did bail out Greece and others.

You think Germany isn't austere? We had a "no new debt" policy for ages and completely screwed up investments into the next generations in the process.

You don't just get to have bloated, ineffective, corrupt governments for decades and then Germany has to bail you out whenever shit hits the fan.

Fuck that. Get your shit in order for fucks sake.

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pascualama t1_j6362e2 wrote

spending money is not leadership.

−10

11nerd11 t1_j639qyg wrote

Lol but not spending money is a sign of lack of leadership?

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11nerd11 t1_j639g52 wrote

German taxpayer here. I didn't suffer under the black 0 policy to have as little new debt as possible for over a decade just to pay off the debt of other countries.

Pay your own debts. Thank you.

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Joseph20102011 t1_j63nbzg wrote

Then Germany should better dissolve the European Union in the future if it isn't willing to have a common fiscal policy with the rest of the 26 EU member nation-states.

−13

11nerd11 t1_j63o647 wrote

Common fiscal policy doesn't mean German tax payers have to pay for your shortcomings.

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Joseph20102011 t1_j63q8l5 wrote

That's not a common fiscal policy you are implying. A common fiscal policy consists of decisions about the collection and expenditure of taxes that have to be taken by a common institution and shared by the participating governments, thus EU must have a common tax-collecting agency like the US IRS for example.

−2

11nerd11 t1_j63qmht wrote

Yeah, and German tax payers still shouldn't have to pay your debt just because nepotism and corruption run rampant in your country.

In the US, California is also paying for Texan bullshit spending, and nobody in California apprechiates that.

It's not going to happen, sorry.

13

ICEpear8472 t1_j6482fc wrote

Yes but that is something which probably no EU country is currently willing to do. Some countries want to have common debt but right now they for sure do not want everything else which comes with a common fiscal policy. Even agreeing on a common tax and tax-collection system would be a stretch. Common policies on how to spend tax money even more so.

1

MrHazard1 t1_j635iiy wrote

Reddit proves itself time and time again of bashing germany, whenever the wallet isn't loose enough.

10