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Reselects420 t1_j5ucrbl wrote

Is being murdered by an ex-partner considered sexist? If so, what exactly makes it sexism?

(Genuine question, I’m not saying this is okay, just asking which part makes it sexism)

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CrimsonShrike t1_j5uq89n wrote

Yes, iirc under newer spanish law, violence against women by former or current romantic partners is considered a sexist crime (if attacker is a man, that is)

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Reselects420 t1_j5us5tf wrote

Yeah I’m just trying to learn why that is considered a sexist crime. I would just consider a violent revenge / psychopathic crime. What in particular makes it into a sexist crime? Just if it’s a man attacking a woman?

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vladimirraul t1_j5uujr6 wrote

Gender-based violence occurs usually when the man believes the woman has done something that a woman, precisely, is not supposed to do, based on his beliefs about how women, precisely, should behave. Hence sexist.

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Effycat3000 t1_j5vixcl wrote

What if the roles are reversed? Is the women sexist?

Also just trying to grasp this.

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vladimirraul t1_j5vr7e1 wrote

Well, that sounds similar to when people ask about 'reverse racism'. To say that gender is socially constructed (and go ahead and shoot me down for being 'woke', but Simone de Beauvoir came up with this many decades ago....), just like that racism is 'systemic' means it's built into our societal values, and also built in to the way behaviors/actions such as domestic violence/murder are punished (or not - see Russia or conservative Islamic societies). So that doesn' t mean roles can' t be reversed, it just means that most of the time, for reasons pertaining to these values and the fact that the majority of people adhere to them unconsciously, the roles are not reversed. Femicide is a thing because in the vast majority of cases it is women being murdered by their partner/ex-partner, not men. And this is the case because this thing called sexism exists, where one sex is being opressed by the other thanks to a complex and historically robust system of values (beliefs/accepted behaviors). That doesn't exclude nor is it contradicted by the fact that there may be cases where women kill men! Does this help at all?

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mpsed t1_j5vtpy6 wrote

' Femicide is a thing because in the vast majority of cases it is women being murdered by their partner/ex-partner, not men. And this is the case because this thing called sexism exists, where one sex is being opressed by the other thanks to a complex and historically robust system of values (beliefs/accepted behaviors). That doesn't exclude nor is it contradicted by the fact that there may be cases where women kill men! Does this help at all?'

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If ' a complex and historically robust system of values (beliefs/accepted behaviors' caused women to be hurt more , then that means that it would be logical for us to not see that through the entirety of human history , but we do, because you ARE WRONG .Stop with this nonsense. Enough is enough , please. In any physical conflict between a man and a woman , a woman is more likely to die because of physical factors. It was always like this and it will always be like this. It's a biological reality that has created this problem. Sexism has nothing to do with it. Unless you want to categorize the entirety of the human and animal experience as sexist. Through the entirety of human history women could and would be victimised unless protected by a man , or a group of men. A town is sacked and the men are dead then the women are raped and enslaved. A lion kills a rival and takes the females as his and then they either accept it or are killed too. Are lions sexist ? Try and be logical with your arguments or as demonstrated they will be easy to expose as inaccurate.

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vladimirraul t1_j5vzcoe wrote

OK, I apprciate your analogy, but it's not a question of logic, but your underlying assumptions. Your premise is that humans are just like lions. So be it! Then let's not even have a society then, let's not have laws, let's not have equality between the sexes.....I'm a let someone else take over, because my palm has now completely covered my face, and I have nothing further to say.

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mpsed t1_j5wfr1y wrote

If you want to debate you need to actually read what I am saying. The lion analogy was the tip of the iceberg of my argument. You yourself said that laws are clearly not followed all the time since women are killed and just explained the phenomenon in a specific way. Just to summarise , we are discussing why women are , lots of the time , the recipients of violence , in effect the recipients of the result of breaking a law. So if you say that women are facing these issues because of a specific set of complex beliefs , values etc then I can prove you wrong just by pointing out that this is more widespread then you think and that the absence of supposedly sexist beliefs and values ( like in lions who are incapable of " believing" and " valuing") doesnt equate to the absence of females being a common recipient of violence. Look at math , disproving a proof requires only one example. Not that this is anywhere close to math , just an analogy again.

So if your palm is covering your face maybe it is because my point is eluding you , or more likely because you have no other arguments. Try to admit when you are unable to form cohesive arguments instead of corrupting my point and insulting me. The only way debates can lead to answers and to the solution of issues is if we actually debate with the long term goal of solving the issues instead of just trying to support a specific narrative and proving ourselves right. Surely in that you must agree. And if you agree then act like you agree.

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vladimirraul t1_j5x0lni wrote

You are clearly a master debater.. But our belief systems are very different, and I’m not interested in trying to convince you. Take the ‘win’ my friend!

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Reselects420 t1_j5uuwfj wrote

So not all domestic violence murders would classify as sexist under Spanish law? Just those where the reason was the victim thinking “women shouldn’t leave their husband” rather than “she left me, I want revenge”?

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vladimirraul t1_j5uvf4a wrote

Do you really think those two things can be separated? I mean other than by using different words.

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rogue_potato420 t1_j5vfaop wrote

I mean the second result could happen in any relationship regardless of gender, being upset at a former partner is not always sexist.

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vladimirraul t1_j5vg1tw wrote

Feeling OK about murdering them might well be though - keep in mind sexism is not always strictly about individual, consciously held beliefs but social mores, what society as a whole thinks is ok or not ok. Think about honor killings for example - it's never the guy that is killed! And even in so-called Western societies such as Spain or France, how often do women kill or beat their male partners? Not saying it doesn't happen at all mind you. There are reasons for this that have to do with values, and that is where sexism often silently resides.

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rogue_potato420 t1_j5vhm6d wrote

Right it certainly can be sexist crime, but I dont think we should always treat it as such. Wouldn't that be similar to treating all violence between different races as a hate crime?

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lilac_light t1_j5vsqhk wrote

So there is this term "femicide". It is a thing. Check out UNODC.1 in 3 women and 1 in 5 men are experiencing domestic violence. So the ratio is much higher for women. 2.5 in 100 000 in africa femicide // 1.4 in 100 000 in America // 1.2 in 100 000 in Oceania // 0.8 in Asia // 0.6 in Europe

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davidkali t1_j5w0m2d wrote

So 4760 women commit femicide per year in the US? I would worry more, but that’s like 1.4 per 100,000 women ..

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[deleted] t1_j5w106x wrote

[deleted]

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davidkali t1_j5w51h1 wrote

Oh god no. I hope Tate learns how to deal with his weakness.

I should have looked it up before I posted. I thought it was quite the reverse. I think from post context, I thought femicide was when women killed their domestic abuser. I have corrected my thinking.

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[deleted] t1_j5w6h7s wrote

[deleted]

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davidkali t1_j5wd8z3 wrote

Apology accepted. Now about the bit where I responded to your comment instead of editing my prior comment. Now my comment seems so out of context from where you originally posted asking if I was biased or a Tate lover. You edited your post. I prefer a continuation of conversations. Not backsies.

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Reselects420 t1_j5vrdgo wrote

Could the rate of murders not just be due to physical differences rather than sexism? Generally speaking, it’d be harder for a woman to kill a man, than the other way around.

I don’t understand how a crime could be sexist unless it’s on an individual level. What you’re saying doesn’t make sense to me. That’s the same as saying any white person committing a crime against a black person (in the US, UK, etc.) is committing a racist crime, regardless of whether or not the race was reason for the crime.

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lilac_light t1_j5y5x5y wrote

If you don't understand this topic start getting into facts of forensic psychology. There is a reasons that terms are terms.

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Rathalos143 t1_j685t4n wrote

The whole fact that a guy got the idea that is ok to get revenge for "leaving him" is sexist dude.

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Reselects420 t1_j687r1j wrote

Is a woman doing the same also sexist under Spanish law?

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Rathalos143 t1_j69cync wrote

Thats a extremely weird case and a minority. Im pretty sure it will be considered a revenge crime.

Now, the case of a woman getting killed by her ex partner, you need to take into consideration It is considered sexist because It is not an isolated case, but a trend. A trend caused by an archaic thought that men can control what women should do. Thats the difference, a woman killing her ex-boyfriend is an hypotethical case, while a man killing his ex-girlfriend is a common case related with hateful behaviour towards women.

If in a future the oppossite case of women killing men in masse happens and is bound to hate, then it will also need to be considered sexist.

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Reselects420 t1_j69dd9m wrote

Is there a way to determine whether a man killed an ex partner in a revenge / hate killing or a sexist killing? Like an interrogation or something.

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Rathalos143 t1_j69guao wrote

Yes, because there are patterns and they usually admit it.

Anyway, its not like you kill a woman then get inmediately accussed of sexism. Its you kill a woman -> you are investigated -> the investigation determines if it was due to sexism or another reason.

Now when its a male who kills his woman, it usually happens because there is already an abussive behaviour and he tends to use the force against her until It went too bad.

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Nervous-Dark-4559 t1_j5we53i wrote

Not on it's own. The ideea is usually: how dare she, she's a woman, she needs to { whatever because man > woman bla bla}

As such guys feels now entitled to "serve justice" (violence to "put her in her place")

But yeah, again, what you wrote on it's own it's not sexism (unless written by a misandry....)

Or something on that line

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Sunchild381 t1_j5vgs52 wrote

So if you kill a woman (ex partaner) you need to kill a man (confirmed as hetro) as well and one each of the lbtqia+ crew.. Also make sure you get a disabled and the whole spectrum of skin colours and faiths.. Gonna turn a murder into a mass murder really quick if you don't want to be accused of being and 'ist

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