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[deleted] t1_j6mrxpe wrote

[deleted]

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Deaftoons t1_j6mve5c wrote

I'm really hoping this is just what they are telling us, and that they have been training them already.

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FreedomIsFried t1_j6nflgg wrote

I'm starting to have doubts about it..

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mondeir t1_j6odp7f wrote

I really hope this is disinformation to make Russians do a forced attack in unfavorable circumstamces before west tech "arrives".

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kerelberel t1_j6oteab wrote

Circumstances are more favorable whén the west tech arrives

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plipyplop t1_j6nuroi wrote

Since Ukrainian military personnel have already been traveling the world for arty, infantry, and commo training, I would not be surprised if they're already zipping around in cockpits.

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EntertainmentNo2044 t1_j6nyk3l wrote

Fighter jets are nearly useless in Ukraine for both sides. Anti-air defenses are so strong that only veteran SEAD pilots in 5th gen fighter jets would be useful, and no one is going to give Ukraine F-22s. Aircraft basically just lob missiles from maximum range at this point and are glorified artillery pieces.

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TROPtastic t1_j6oy840 wrote

>Fighter jets are nearly useless in Ukraine for both sides. Anti-air defenses are so strong that only veteran SEAD pilots in 5th gen fighter jets would be useful

Objectively incorrect

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Ohhisseencule t1_j6omrve wrote

Funny, so what you're saying is Ukrainians are clueless fools for wanting jets, and the rest of the Western defence community that all agree jets would be useful to Ukraine and only debate what type they could send are also clueless fools.

They should really consult with you, so much time and money wasted.

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FloPhib t1_j6p7gx6 wrote

Plenty of 4th gen jets can send long range missile like the meteors nowadays. Those are not widely available in Europe though

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BrainBlowX t1_j6osbw2 wrote

>but to be in a situation where one country is at the 'consider' stage of training pilots

Because they don't tell us the stuff decided behind closed doors.

The western tanks were being worked out LONG before they ever confirmed deliveries

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Rexia2022 t1_j6mw9qo wrote

Jets is going to be really difficult because of high training requirements to be useful in the way Ukraine wants. Russia has the fighters but still can't use them because their pilots simply aren't well trained enough to pull off SEAD/DEAD, so if they use them they just get obliterated by Ukrainian AA.

Ukraine won't be able to take control of it's skies either if it can't run SEAD/DEAD missions and the training requirement is extremely steep. Like, we need to get them training now so maybe they can do this next year, and that's assuming they learn as quickly on the jets as they did on the HIMARs.

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lordderplythethird t1_j6n0hgz wrote

It's more complex than that. Russia has no credible ability to perform SEAD/DEAD. Their main anti-rad missile is the KH-31, which has 3 single frequency seekers. If a radar uses frequency hopping like any semi modern radar does, the KH-31 will lose the target completely. Worse yet, only way to swap out which frequency seeker is installed, is to send the missile to the factory for replacement.

There's a newer variant that has a multifrequency seeker, but there's not believed to be many at all, given Russia's historical disinterest in SEAD/DEAD

The west has historically had very little in terms of air defenses, because their fighter fleets serve as their air defenses. As such, Russia just never prioritized SEAD/DEAD, and it shows.

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Reselects420 t1_j6mvr39 wrote

Training basically means they’re going through with sending them afterwards right?

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[deleted] t1_j6n9pgi wrote

[deleted]

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TROPtastic t1_j6oy0e2 wrote

Two years to train on an F-16 including 1 year of Undergraduate Pilot Training in trainer jets, at least in the USAF. Safe to say that Ukrainian veteran pilots won't need UPT.

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Reselects420 t1_j6n9t2k wrote

But US and UK (and possibly Germany) don’t want to send planes.

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progrethth t1_j6nfr87 wrote

France (92 Mirage + 102 Rafale) and the Netherlands (40 F-16 + 26 F-35) on the other hand seem more open to the idea. I assume if they send stuff it will be Mirage and F-16. I hope Sweden (71 Gripen) considers it too.

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Reselects420 t1_j6ni4qq wrote

F-35s definitely not going to Ukraine. And will the US really allow F-16s to be sent when they themselves said they won’t send them?

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blackbandit t1_j6nl3iw wrote

Probably yes, if that country sending F-16’s wants to replace them with new F-35’s.

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116YearsWar t1_j6nr76d wrote

The UK doesn't really have any planes to send. They got rid of all their Tornadoes and there's no chance that Eurofighters or F35s are going to be sent.

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TheRealMadPete t1_j6mrq5x wrote

World leaders will eventually have to send jets. Originally, they said no tanks, and now everyone is sending Ukraine tanks It's inevitable. It's not like anything has been used on Russian soil so far. All Ukraine is using it for is to take their land back from the intruders

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purpleefilthh t1_j6niqbt wrote

Originally it was "defensive ammunition"...

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hello_hola t1_j6o934g wrote

Remember when Germany sent helmets and body armour?

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Fuzzyphilosopher t1_j6pb17p wrote

To be fair those were desperately needed and very useful for helping Ukraine slow and stop the russian advance.

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Yelmel t1_j6mqcba wrote

Do it

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Canop t1_j6ndchv wrote

But training for what jets ? It can't be F16 as France has none. So does it mean France is also "considering" sending some Mirage ? some Rafale ?

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progrethth t1_j6ngcvd wrote

Probably Mirage since France plans to retire them.

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Fuzzyphilosopher t1_j6pehtw wrote

Yes there were reports recently that France was thinking of sending Mirage's.

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autotldr t1_j6mucsr wrote

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)

> In an interview with the daily French newspaper Le Figaro on Friday, the Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov called on Paris to help train its pilots on French planes.

> "I've heard many experts speak highly of French planes and their pilots. I would naturally be very happy if Ukrainian pilots can be trained to fly French planes and put this expertise towards securing victory," he said.

> For Gassilloud, a decision to train Ukrainian pilots on French fighter jets would only make sense if the government followed up with a decision to donate planes.

Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Ukraine^#1 fight^#2 French^#3 jets^#4 planes^#5

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riotriot37 t1_j6nwuxg wrote

What’s the equivalent of Top Gun en francais? le meilleur canon¿ Tom Cruise est terrible...

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SophieSix9 t1_j6p800r wrote

Does anyone know how much is invested in training their special operations units? I would think putting more resources into the same type of outfits that hit the Crimean bridge would do wonders while everyone gets the tanks and potential F-16s sorted out.

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Bob_Juan_Santos t1_j6p6yay wrote

just do it, it's just training, what's the worst that can happen?

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Lopsided-Painter5216 t1_j6o2a78 wrote

I don’t see how this will be beneficial to train them on our systems if the French government doesn’t have the balls to deliver at least a couple of Rafale/Mirage to them very soon.

It’s already a big problem with the Leclerc tanks. Macron is tiptoeing over what to do… it wouldn’t be good to send our tanks to them because that’s another system to learn when they already have the Abrams and leopard on their plate. Now we want to train them on rafales when the F16 are eventually gonna drop? What is Macron doing here exactly?

Either be firm and send shit their way and train them, or give them other stuff like the recent Franco-Italian Samp-T in more quantities. France has been so weak in sending weapons, I’m really ashamed of my country…

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ballthyrm t1_j6og5uq wrote

We can send mirage planes, they are being retired. We can't spare any Leclerc though.

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Swift_F0x t1_j6oxz36 wrote

Mirage have lower maintenance requirements and would be a good choice for Ukraine. The F-16 has some logistical nightmares like hydrazine powered APUs, but the mirage can and is operated by less capable air forces than Ukraine.

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Buttfulloffucks t1_j6o13i1 wrote

Even if they eventually send any, what difference is it going to make? Russia is planning a massive offensive. Those jets won't be there when ukraine needs them. Plus it takes a hell of a lot to deploy air platforms. I don't know how well the S-400 Russia deployed in Syria worked. The Israelis seemed to have avoided them in their bombing runs across Syria. So I'd view the S-400 and S-500 to be legitimate reasons why the West has been hesitant up to this point. The F-16 and Rafael haven't really been tested against near peer anti-air opposition. While this may look like a great time to test them, I'm not sure anyone will be pleased to see their vulnerabilities exposed by the Russians even if the US has more advanced platforms.

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