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LatterTarget7 t1_j6bw0f5 wrote

These are definitely coordinated attacks. My bet is on Israel and the Saudis working together. But Iran has a lot of enemies

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canadianredditor16 t1_j6c7p8z wrote

I suppose it’s possible but I think a more likely ally in such an operation would be the Azerbaijanis they are close partners and Israel have agreements to use air bases in the country.

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canadianredditor16 t1_j6c81b5 wrote

And Azerbaijan unlike the saudis are not afraid to openly work with the state of Israel.

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BrotherAdultMan t1_j6d4ggt wrote

Egypt is also openly working with Israel, but their people hate Israel.

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Csalbertcs t1_j6di1zj wrote

That’s not just an Egypt thing in that region.

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MostlyComments t1_j6dzk9p wrote

Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, UAE they are all not so secretly friends with Israel at this point

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Csalbertcs t1_j6e1a7o wrote

Yes, but let me tell you the people of those nations absolutely hate that friendship.

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MostlyComments t1_j6e2hi8 wrote

Oh definitely, I lived in Jordan for a short time while learning Arabic and saw that first hand.

Jordan has a huge Palestinian population and they have some strong feelings for Israelis...

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Csalbertcs t1_j6e4gd7 wrote

Absolutely, you know it brother. We got to see some of those feelings during the recent World Cup as well.

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[deleted] t1_j6e3aou wrote

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Csalbertcs t1_j6e5lgx wrote

I can tell you that those were responsible for creating Israel quite likely did not expect this vitriol or steadfastness from the Arab world.

The Arab countries are struggling big time, there are schemes that turn Arab against Arab instead of helping each other. Countries like Iraq, Lebanon, and Syria were wealthy (not really Syria but there economy was growing incredibly fast from 2006-2010) but the destabilizing forces don't like strong neighbouring rival countries. Divisions over religion are causing quite the stir as well, where those differences would be celebrated in a country like Canada.

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[deleted] t1_j6e6ma5 wrote

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Csalbertcs t1_j6e746j wrote

Inshallah things will get better. I think with higher income and access to internet the future will be brighter.

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pwnerofnoob t1_j6dytht wrote

They are also close enough to lunch the drones that were suspected to be used in these strikes

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bishamon72 t1_j6e0rfp wrote

Lunching the drones is ok, just don’t wine and dine them.

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jackolivier45 t1_j6cg0uj wrote

I really anticipated something serious would have started in Iran after Netanyahu returned. Back in the days he really wanted to start a war against Iran together with US but the US decided not to fall into the trap. Maybe now he will be successful in his aims. But I am not sure about the whole situation in the middle east, I just base my opinion on tens of hours of documentaries about the whole pretext of the current situation.

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LumixShill t1_j6cxuib wrote

From listening to Pod Save the World routinely it sounds like that was more or less a promise Netanyahu is making.

I agree with another one of the comments here that these recent infrastructure attacks in Iran are probably, at their root, directed by the Israelis.

Really unfortunate time to be stirring up shit though, imo. With the link between Iran and Russia solidifying it could easily be interpreted as another "Western" power directly attacking Russian goals.

My heart tells me that is good, but I really worry about escalation. We're heading towards a very bloody Spring regardless.

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Law-of-Poe t1_j6da17s wrote

Our fears of “escalation” are allowing authoritarians to run wild. we are at or approaching a watershed moment in the world. We either stop (directly or indirectly) these oppressors in their tracks or we tell them we don’t have the willpower to do so.

And China is watching carefully to see what the collective willpower is

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LumixShill t1_j6dbaop wrote

I'm not saying "do nothing". Maybe I'm just naive and worn out because I served in the military for nearly a decade during two wars, and grew up in the era of numerous international peace talks, but I'd really like to see a little bit more effort put into diplomatic solutions before we rattle so many sabers.

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Law-of-Poe t1_j6ddkuo wrote

I would too and there are wars that I don’t agree with (probably the ones you’re mentioning) but when it comes to Russia, I don’t see diplomacy going very far at all. They’ve broken nearly all of their “peace” treaties and operate like the mob. What they’re trying to do is join with other belligerent nations in upending the democratic world order. If we let this come to pass we will be in a world of pain.

China is being icy to them now because they’re failing so hard and because China benefits a lot from their entanglements with the west. But if things ever tip in Russias favor, I wouldn’t be surprised to see China jump at the opportunity to switch to a more aggressive stance against the west as it may be their one opportunity to upend the current structure.

The west is not perfect and has committed a lot of atrocities but I always have to ask myself…do I want to live under a world order whereby liberal and democratic western countries set the rules or one where countries like Russia and china have an equal say

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FoolInTheDesert t1_j6fw970 wrote

Diplomacy can quickly become appeasement and the wars that result from appeasement have historically been far worse than the wars that were fought because diplomacy just didn't work in the first place.

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[deleted] t1_j6dy4wv wrote

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Law-of-Poe t1_j6dze76 wrote

I’d say Iraq and Afghanistan were not dangers to the larger global order. Russia, in combination with Iran and others is absolutely a threat.

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ModsEnthusiast t1_j6d0den wrote

>it could easily be interpreted as another "Western" power directly attacking Russian goals.

so what, honestly? who will this convince that doesn't already hate the 'west' ?

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LumixShill t1_j6d1mnl wrote

It's less about the public perception and more about the kind of impetus that open war between Iran and Israel could add to the current global tensions.

You can look in my profile to find plenty of instances of me criticizing Joe Biden, but I personally think his defense staff has been smart to slowly ramp up the kinds of weaponry being given to Ukraine.

There's a benefit to ramping up slowly because at the end of the day these military decisions are still being made by people, and "here's all our top tier military tech on day one" ramps up tension to 11 and may result in some unfortunate decisions.

The more open war to manage, the harder it will be to keep that balance between ensuring Ukrainian victory, and not causing something like tactical nukes or other WMDs to be deployed.

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ModsEnthusiast t1_j6d203p wrote

>It's less about the public perception and more about the kind of impetus that open war between Iran and Israel could add to the current global tensions.

the world has been expecting this war for like 50 years now, it seems inevitable unless something very drastic happens. Like how the fall of the soviet union stopped WW3 from seeming inevitable

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LumixShill t1_j6d2fhy wrote

We were actually quite close to smoothing relations with Iran during the JCPOA negotiations, but I agree that any relief of tensions that resulted from those dialogues has been completely undone and likely cannot be recovered at this point.

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thisplacemakesmeangr t1_j6d43og wrote

I vaccilate between this take and a darker view including defense contractors and entrenched wealth. Given the same options I'd take Biden every time but this geriatric bullshit has got to go. How many employers out there are clamoring for 80 year olds to run their companies? Wtf are we doing letting them run the world

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Governmentwatchlist t1_j6emgsu wrote

This is a really interesting point. If you wouldn’t want them to lead your 11th grade choir program, why do we want them leading the free world.

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BrainBlowX t1_j6cqziu wrote

Israel? Maybe. But the Saudis I believe are just too incompetent to be able to coordinate stuff like this abroad in a hostile nation.

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Midnight2012 t1_j6f1dsj wrote

Yeah, in sure that drone factory is also making drones used by the houthis against Saudia Arabia. As well as by syrians against israel. As well as being used by Russia against Ukraine. Plus the kurds. And the USA doesn't approve either.

Kurds or Saudi Arabia would be the likely candidates that can get drones into Iran without crossing another countries airspace. I always wonder how Israel got to get Iran to bomb it back in the day. They would have had to cross several hostile countries to even get to iran.

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Contain_the_Pain t1_j6fek1c wrote

Maybe, but I’m they sure know how to make a fat deposit to a numbered bank account

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Wounded_Hand t1_j6dgrrb wrote

Maybe multiple countries have formed a joint anti-Iran coalition and meet one Thursday a month.

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supertastic t1_j6dnpr5 wrote

It's pretty remarkable if they thought they would get away with supporting russia in their attack on freedom and democracy in Europe. Well, fuck around and find out.

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[deleted] t1_j6celxr wrote

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crusty_fleshlight t1_j6cevmp wrote

Very different flavor of Islam. Saudi and Iran pretty much hate each other.

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canadianredditor16 t1_j6ckho6 wrote

They follow different sects of islam One shia and one Sunni and both states have been in a Cold War for decades.

The saudis while publicly hostile to Israel has had a history of secret cooperation in the past

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wolfie379 t1_j6cojh2 wrote

Think of it as the Islamic version of “The Troubles”. Extremely conservative Catholics and extremely conservative Protestants are both extremely conservative Christians - and look how well they get along with each other in Ireland.

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Enasakoma t1_j6cgwoq wrote

Both follow very conservative versions but the versions themselves are extremely different.

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foobarijk t1_j6cmb7h wrote

What are the differences other than disagreeing on who should have been the caliph some 1300 years ago? (and one side losing a battle at Karbala, plus the ceremonies commemorating said loss).

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Postcocious t1_j6d7om6 wrote

What are the differences between Protestant and Catholic, other than believing who should be in charge?

To an outsider, the differences between one sect and another often appear insignificant. To those within the sects, their beliefs are essential to their identity. Any threat to a person's essential beliefs may result in extreme violence.

Those differences led to the 30 Years War, which killed 5-8 million Central Europeans back when the only weapon was a short-range musket with a bayonet. The Troubles in Ireland came from the same cause.

By design, monotheistic religions create in-groups and out-groups. If my religion is the one and only truth, then your religion - by definition - is false. Since both cannot be true, the very existence of one threatens the other's most basic beliefs, and vice-versa. These intractable disagreements may lead to extreme and prolonged violence, each side fighting until it is literally exhausted of all people and resources.

For a brilliant take on the foolish seriousness behind religious wars, read 'Gulliver's Travels', Book I. Are you a Big Endian, or a Little Endian. Your life depends on your answer.

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foobarijk t1_j6h03h1 wrote

I don't dispute that they see themselves as different and may resort to extreme violence over these differences. I was just questioning the statement that they are "extremely different". Even to themselves, I doubt that is the case. The magnitude of induced violence is not necessarily correlated to the magnitude of the difference, and in fact, as demonstrated in your example, may even be inversely correlated.

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Postcocious t1_j6hsg1f wrote

Thanks for clarifying and sorry if I misread your comment.

>The magnitude of induced violence is not necessarily correlated to the magnitude of the difference...

Completely agree.

>... may even be inversely correlated.

A fascinating concept that, if true, speaks to a psychological rather than a doctrinal basis for such violence.

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notimeforbuttstuff t1_j6cqv5j wrote

Because Catholics and Protestants are exactly the same too. They love each other, just ask Ireland.

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LatterTarget7 t1_j6de9zf wrote

Iran and saudis are both Islamic. But they interpret it differently. They hate each other for other reasons too I think.

But Saudi Arabia and Israel joined forces in an anti Iran alliance.

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Kissmyanthia1 t1_j6cx04s wrote

Saudis and Iran absolutely hate each other's guts. Saudi's will work with Israel to any degree if it's against Iran.

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