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CowardNomad t1_j28l15d wrote

The motto of the current Iranian regime is probably something like "the nation must die so that the state can live". They’re literally killing the intellectuals, the creativity, the cream of the crop of a people. This is not surprising since it’s ME we’re talking about, but I still think Iranians deserve better.

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who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j299hya wrote

>A dictatorship has to promulgate some sort of distant goals and moral ideals in order to justify its rule and the people’s immolation; the extent to which it succeeds in convincing its victims, is the extent of its own danger; sooner or later, its contradictions are thrown in its face by the best of its subjects: the ablest, the most intelligent, the most honest. Thus a dictatorship is forced to destroy and to keep on destroying the best of its “human resources.” And be it fifty years or five centuries later, ambitious thugs and lethargic drones are all a dictatorship will have left to exploit and rule; the rest will die young, physically or spiritually.

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CrystalQuartzen t1_j2b873i wrote

Wow, I couldn’t describe Russia better myself.

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parallelportals t1_j2bmxpu wrote

That's scary tbh Knowing it's just a desolate land of fucking idiots that are always drunk and cold and on the verge of hurting their partner. Devoid of anyone with common sense and oppressing what's left of it.

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Pre-Nietzsche t1_j2bzivd wrote

Lol.. what? Trashing the entire country’s citizens because of a corrupt government is ridiculous. Unless we’re talking about North Korea, of course.

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BroBogan t1_j2af5qb wrote

I don't think people realize how many people in the Muslim world view Israel (and honestly to a similar extent Jews).

I am from Egypt. Watch what happens on this prank style TV show when this actor is told the woman interviewing him is Israeli

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1CAtjYVdDc

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Additional_Meeting_2 t1_j2ahh77 wrote

I red a book written in 70s that was a travel journal and several people in Middle East just casually were talking how everyone in Israel is going to die soon in a war.

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doublestitch t1_j2brsez wrote

Damn, that's nuts.

Had an idea feelings could run that strong. But to see it in real time, that's next level. The thought that runs through one's mind is what would have happened if there weren't cameras running?

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scihole t1_j2bh75h wrote

Check out who the owner of memri tv is. Audacious i'd say

−4

SameOldBro t1_j2cwx6p wrote

> the owner of memri tv

"The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI; officially the "Middle East Media and Research Institute" ) is a nonprofit press monitoring and analysis organization co-founded by former Israeli military intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser"

not sure why you are so suggestive, are you implying that it's bad because it's Israeli owned?

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fallen_preacher t1_j2b3pmi wrote

Oh believe, we're thankful that the world is seeing it now, but it's been happening pretty much since the beginning of Islamic revolution more than 40 years ago...

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amitym t1_j2b9ywf wrote

"The nation must die so that ... so that ... I'll think of a reason later, the important thing is that the nation must die."

(You're absolutely right, I just sometimes think these psychopaths grab the murder stick first and think of the rationale later. If ever...)

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Jeezal t1_j2aobf2 wrote

Welcome to the USSR! Oh wait... Wrong country

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TheBusStop12 t1_j2cz0ox wrote

>They’re literally killing the intellectuals, the creativity, the cream of the crop of a people.

They should ask Pol Pot how that's gonna turn out for them

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Raspberries-Are-Evil t1_j2c609r wrote

> but I still think Iranians deserve better.

Then they really need to do something about it.

1

[deleted] t1_j28pvj0 wrote

[removed]

−159

hunisher1 t1_j29agyr wrote

Tell me you don’t know shit about Iran’s history without telling me you don’t know shit about Iran’s history.

Fuckin fascist.

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CowardNomad t1_j28zx80 wrote

I humbly disagree.

I do not find the westerners have anything inherently special, so that only they can embrace the concept of human rights, individual rights, property rights.

I do not argue that the westerners are the one leading in this arena, but what I find uncomfortable is the idea of your description of the "rest of the world" is asiatic and orientalist, painting a picture of the so-called "barbaric East".

There’s Japan, which has the Taisho democracy period, when democracy blossomed even before WWII. I choose this period so that we can avoid the whole "is the post-war democracy somewhat forced upon them by the west" blah blah blah, that’s for r/AskHistorians, not here.

There’s Korea, which I personally believe has one of the strongest democratic spirit in Asia. Gwangju uprising is definitely not supported by the west, and the downfall of Park Geun-hye is a sign of a strongly pro-democratic people. Chaebol and corruption are serious problems, but democracy is still the wish of the people.

Then there’s Taiwan. Some use it as an example that Chinese can be democratic, some argue that they can hardly represent Chinese at all, since Waishengren (those that escaped from mainland to TW along with the KMT) only make up ~13% of the population, and the rest identify themselves as more like Taiwanese. However, even if we separate them from Chinese, their customs are still loaded with Han culture, and that didn’t prevent them from being a democratic state aligned with most of the western values while retaining their Han culture.

I know Far East is not Middle East. I know that having a democracy doesn’t means these rights can be correctly protected, flawed democracy is a thing. I know that democracy and the values you claim to be specifically western will not miraculously prevail in Iran even if the current regime fall. However, I do believe every place in this world have potential to accept democracy and related values, trying to depict the rest of the world as places doomed to be barbaric is just snobbish.

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biggKIDD0 t1_j2a405j wrote

yes the i.r. heads says the protests are just american and uk goons and they are trying to deceive youth, like its a fairytale shit, but I dare them to hold open Referendum let people freely choose for themselves, how they wanna live and how much they want these artworks we will see how many will get killed because of fuckin fashion choices and how many children die because of not agreeing to your religion

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CowardNomad t1_j2a8xzn wrote

I agree. I remember back in October the regime was claiming that they’re protecting Iran’s culture from corruption and shit… Then someone pointing out the obvious, "if hijab was part of Iran’s culture, it wouldn’t need enforcing". Laconic, but it really show how absurd this whole thing is. Destruction of a people’s intelligentsia, suppression of a people’s culture, violence as the first response towards almost any resistance, these all remind me something. This is incredible, through sheer religious fanaticism, the Ayatollah regime is somehow behaving exactly like foreign colonisers… in their own freaking land!

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outtathesky_fellapie t1_j29ummg wrote

>Back in the rest of the world, they follow the old rules of might makes right

In the modern world, we have evolved past the lizard brain stage of existance and realize that just because someone isnt benching 250lbs doesnt mean they cant materially contribute to society in a fashion that benefits most or all. Maybe one day you too will evolve past lizard brain levels of existance. Youll like it, its nice appreciating people for what they have to offer as opposed to only valuing one or two character/physical traits.

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Tartan_Samurai t1_j282yqp wrote

Feels like there's a competition going on in the Middle East to see who can win the 'shittiest regime of the year' award

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dissentrix t1_j28hjh4 wrote

Unfortunately, it's absolutely not restricted to the Middle East, despite how much they've outdone themselves recently in the "horrible governance" competition.

Beyond the obvious name drops of China, Russia, or North Korea, here's a few one could name:

-A bloody civil war is still going on in Myanmar as we speak, with the military junta in place razing villages and burning children who resist them;
-Tunisia is ruled by the iron fist of an authoritarian psychopath who has essentially appointed himself as Supreme Leader in the past couple of years and destroyed the political institutions of the country;
-Africa in general has a bunch of, well, rather nasty regimes to put it charitably, but you gotta mention Eritrea and Afwerki, under whose rule nearly 10% of the population, in 2018, was living in slavery, the second highest rate on Earth after North Korea (and I doubt the numbers have improved all that much since then);
-Haiti is essentially lacking a significant part of its own government, and has not managed to replace its Prime Minister at all - the country is currently caught in violent anarchy, with gangs engaging in what's close to a war on the territory, and the President himself having stated exterior intervention would be welcome at this point (not to mention a new deadly cholera outbreak).

And the list goes on, there's enough horrible regimes in the world to fill, like, at least a couple pages of a Word document.

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DavidlikesPeace t1_j28xash wrote

It's a big World and it's quite easy to despair. However, it is worthwhile noting geopolitical trends.

  1. there are also plenty of decent regions (usually quiet and not on the news). Latin America and much of Africa are having comparably peaceful eras. More democracies exist than at any other time in world history; and

  2. the MENA region includes Tunisia and Yemen (and probably also Sudan and Mali). OP was right to note this authoritarian regional problem. Aside from China, the MENA is the most non-democratic region in the world; and

  3. For better or worse though, the largest tyranny in Europe also enabled that problem. As Russia declines as it loses the war in Ukraine, many MENA tyrants will lose their biggest ally.

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Zeusnexus t1_j2aew8z wrote

I wouldn't put Mali in there. It's more of a sub Saharan nation. Unsure about Sudan.

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JinDeTwizol t1_j28mu31 wrote

I totally agree and my country, Europe and more largely Westerns countries who have the experiences of history with monarchism and dictatorial regime, begin to reverse the democratic liberty thanks to PoS like Marine LePen, Viktor Orban, Donald Trump who prefer to side with the actual dictators because they can't be the one in their homeland.

I hope to see the termination of dictatorial countries in my lifetime but with extremism lovers in the most powerful one, I'm afraid to see the return of them...

Oh and don't forget the rich PoS Elon Musk & Co who want to be dictator of the economy.

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dissentrix t1_j29k6bn wrote

> I hope to see the termination of dictatorial countries in my lifetime but with extremism lovers in the most powerful one, I'm afraid to see the return of them...

There's always a risk, but if you want to be optimistic, keep in mind that never has humankind been so interconnected and aware of what's going on in the world, compared to any other point in history. People criticize the Internet and social networks, but the fact remains that, thanks to them, anyone in Canada, or the US, or France, or even Russia, can see the injustices happening in places like Iran; and although disinformation circulates more freely, the flipside of that is that knowledge(and truth) is also easier to research, share, and learn. We already saw these networks playing a huge role in the Arab Spring - and while that was only questionably "successful", ultimately the more we progress, and the more people are exposed to the outside world, and different cultures, the more things will improve.

This is the reason that things like gay rights, or religious freedom, have become more widely accepted worldwide; younger generations are exposed to these concepts, learn why they're valuable and what intellectual discussions they can have around them, including from their own geographical cultural perspectives compared to others, and it thus becomes easier to transmit to future generations those values and discussions.

And, on the other hand, while the reactionaries do still exist, and sometimes use increasingly violent means to conserve power (or regress society), they are increasingly viewed as an aberration, by an increasing number of people. It becomes a whole lot harde to take over, introduce fascism, and destroy people's rights, if your basic premise is: "these things that you newer generations have learned are essential freedoms, and great ways to increase your standard of living, well we're taking that away and going back to a state that you know is worse".

So yes, things are improving, very slowly, despite the two, four, or eight steps back that some would like to take (or are currently taking).

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JinDeTwizol t1_j29ww5g wrote

That very wise of you and i share your point of view, things like the war in Ukraine make me fear the worst (my education teach me that war would never been seen again in Europe because of the -not perfect- unity we build) BUT this is a way to build a better futur in some way.

Thanks you for your words fellow human !

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biggKIDD0 t1_j2a5bvi wrote

yeah if only the fundamental knobheads and their cpuwashed whataboutism republic army backed off it would be alot faster

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atomicxblue t1_j29wkd7 wrote

It has felt like it was the last party for the crazy fringe right across the planet. Multiple countries have elected leaders with dictatorial bents.

1

TrumpDesWillens t1_j28sl1t wrote

I don't know why the whole of Africa is taken as a whole. You didn't say all of SEA is shitty cause of Myanmar, why does Africa in general have nasty regimes? Africa is huge, there are stable places like Namibia or Botswana. No, it is not Africa in general that has nasty regimes just like how no one would say Europe in general has nasty regimes cause russia is bad.

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DavidlikesPeace t1_j28yide wrote

I have no idea either why people conflate. At the least, North Africa and sub-Saharan Africa should never be conflated

North Africa is part of the Middle East culturally, politically, and religiously. The Arab Spring was largely North African in focus, before the Syrian civil war preoccupied attention. Democracy faces a major hurdle even in the stablest nations there. Authoritarian traditions stretch back +2,000 years.

Sub Saharan Africa is far less influenced by ME Islamist traditions and far more aligned to a similar postcolonial timeline as South Asia and caudillo era Latin America. Despite some truly vast cities, most folks remain rural. This is also the region that rightly or wrongly, is seen as both a wild National Geographic idyll, or conversely one threatened by overpopulation. Crucial point. Democracy is the general prevailing ideology here, even if more honored in the breach.

And even this summarization grossly oversimplifies. Shameless plug, it's fascinating to read about ECOAS and the African Union

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dissentrix t1_j29fcnc wrote

I never said "the whole of Africa" was shitty - why are you putting words in my mouth?

All I said was that Africa does have a bunch of shitty regimes, relative to most other places on Earth. This is true - I talked about Afwerki and Kais Saied, but I could've mentioned Paul Biya, or Museveni, or Teodoro Mbasogo, or any number of violent dictators or corrupt governments that have managed to remain in power. In comparison to, say, Europe, it is indisputable that things like freedom of the press, democratic participation and free elections, or the Human Development Index, are lower. While it is true that there are a number of stable regimes with societies that are becoming better to live in, the continent in general, on average, compared to other continents, remains less developed and in the grasp of more dictatorial regimes.

This wasn't a statement intended to generalize the people living in Africa (as, quite obviously, the people from South Africa have a markedly different set of cultures than the people from Kenya, for instance), and it certainly isn't "because they're Africans" or whatever; the simple reason this is the case is that, much like the Middle-East, the continent has been r*ped by centuries of reckless colonization by imperialist powers that care not for cultural boundaries or human rights and have divided the land like fuckin' contestants at a competition for artistic cake-cutting.

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olican101 t1_j2c7qn4 wrote

Italy elected an open fascist. This issue affects the west too!

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Nubeel t1_j28s0rt wrote

If the Haitian president needs outside intervention he should just put out a press release saying they just discovered a cubic buttload of oil in Haiti. The US military will be there before lunchtime.

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Knocksveal t1_j2aw0n9 wrote

The cases you named are on par with those of C.R.I.NK countries. But those 4 are strong militarily with nuclear weapons, which makes them extra notorious.

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topdawgg22 t1_j29da9w wrote

The closer they are to being Aryan, the more English speakers care.

0

HiHoJufro t1_j28hmw5 wrote

Iran is always a contender, but this year is really no contest.

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Stoly23 t1_j28vzh6 wrote

I mean, if we’re counting Afghanistan with the middle east(I’m never really sure if they’re in that, South Asia, or Central Asia) they’re a strong opponent.

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RoffeSoverin t1_j283iuf wrote

Just standard middle eastern stuff

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[deleted] t1_j28lcy2 wrote

[deleted]

−89

AmberHeards t1_j28mkz0 wrote

I don't think either is racism. You can criticize inhumane practices of any geographical region.

If you criticize black people for what African regimes do, that would be racism. But that's not in any way what they did.

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LatterTarget7 t1_j28tcua wrote

He’s not really racist tho. How many journalists have been killed by Middle Eastern countries? A lot.

Syria and iraq kill 63 journalists a year for the past decade in MENA region. That’s over 850 people.

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HolyFuckerony t1_j28p5ju wrote

It’s not racism if it’s true. Applies to Africa and the Middle East and multiple others.

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Speedly t1_j28zxkz wrote

> It’s not racism if it’s true

I can think of many things that are true that would be called racist if someone pointed them out.

I'm not saying the topic at hand is or isn't; I'm just saying that what you claimed is incorrect.

edit: Jesus fuck reddit, you certainly seem to not have a grasp of what even you think is and isn't racism. Be better.

−15

olican101 t1_j2c7ua8 wrote

TIL that criticizing a region of the world for inhumane practices is "racism".

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AmberHeards t1_j28kb33 wrote

Unbelievably sad. What crime did he commit?? Is there a law against going on Israeli TV?

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AcaAwkward t1_j28o1b7 wrote

He angered the bearded men in charge with the funny hats

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Artizela t1_j29dyro wrote

> Is there a law against going on Israeli TV?

Probably. The law in Iran most likely forbids any communication with Israelis. It’s like that in most Muslim / Arab countries that are still openly hostile to Israel.

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cthuluhooprises t1_j2bk0v3 wrote

Are there any that arent? (/gen)

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BCuzMe t1_j2dqtsr wrote

There are, yes. The most important ones are Egypt and Jordan who've made peace with Israel long ago, despite being at war multiple times before that (though the relationships aren't great, they're ok). In recent times more and more Arab countries which have been hostile in the past have started to both officially acknowledge Israel's existence and some even made peace deals, despite not actually being at war - it's a strong statement and is followed up by economic cooperation. While the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is really going nowhere, those recent agreements certainly shed a bit of an optimistic light on (some) of the Middle East.

Though it's worth noting, that a big part of the reason these recent agreements are happening is common enemies, namely Iran, being a bat-shit state

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liquid_cherry t1_j296qgl wrote

Article said he was an author who wrote about religious co-existence. Very sad.

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BoiFrosty t1_j2ac1lo wrote

Iran has the stated goal of wiping out Israel. They don't recognize it as a legitimate state, so giving them airspace or possible view of legitimacy is both a state and religious offence.

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elihri t1_j2b2qsg wrote

Our athletes are forced to drop out of international competition if they face an israeilian opponent. Anything related to Israel is banned. The law doesn’t mean anything here. If they want to kill you they make up of a law for it.

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brpajense t1_j29f20j wrote

The Iranian revolution was because of the Shah’s locking up opponents, brutalizing them in prison, and then people dying during protests, no?

How is today’s Iran different under Khameni? It’s just basically the same thing with a backwards foreign policy that makes everyone poor, and a religious morality police instead of SAVAK, right?

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Lumpy-Dingo-947 t1_j2bei07 wrote

It’s different people being locked up and dying. Authoritarian rule trends to look the same from the outside though.

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Victoresball t1_j2ckvqw wrote

People were trying to overthrow the Pahlavis for like 50 years. Just because people don't like a government does not mean it will be overthrown soon.

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brpajense t1_j2cldj7 wrote

I wouldn’t say “soon”—more implying that the Iranian Revolution is a lot like what it originally overthrew, just poorer.

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Specialist-Item-9310 t1_j2cyo3j wrote

The islamic revolution happened in 1 year, there was no protests from 1963 till 1977, and in 1963 islamists (current rulers) were protesting against women being given the right to vote since women's rights are haram in Islam.

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margbardiktator t1_j2cq06e wrote

Not the same. Please don’t write this off as some sort of same-but-different kind of situation. The Islamic Republic is way, way more brutal, even if it has employed many of the same tactics in repression of dissent.

They have used child soldiers and even execute children. They are systematically raping men women and children right now in their prisons as torture against protesters, in addition to other types of physical and psychological torture they use as a matter of policy. The regime has been selling off pieces of the country to anyone willing to buy, and for almost nothing. They’ve destroyed so much of the natural environment of Iran, they’ve literally put poison in the earth, water and in the air. They have been spreading and sponsoring terrorism around the world, especially menacing their neighbors. They have instituted a gender apartheid and made all women second class citizens.

Anything to further their own agenda is to them not only morally justifiable, but morally required. With a religious mandate to spread their ideology and become a religious super power, they will do anything to accomplish their goals. Even if that means destroying Iran to make it happen.

The shah may have been a dictator, but he also loved Iran and loved Iranians. The Islamic Republic only sees Iranians and Iran as a means to and end.

Please checkout r/NewIran if you’re interested in seeing some of the struggle against this regime.

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[deleted] t1_j2cv6m9 wrote

[deleted]

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brpajense t1_j2cwck3 wrote

Popular reform that improves citizens lives are not the kind of thing that leads to popular unrest.

Dissidents were jailed, and torture was used on prisoners until 1977 after pressure from Jimmy Carter. There were also executions of political prisoners, but the treatment of prisoners deteriorated and political executions increased after the Revolution.

What the revolutionaries did was exaggerate the death toll to an absurd degree changing the Shah’s reputation, but then they immediately went further as soon as they got power.

1

autotldr t1_j285jpf wrote

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)

> Iran has sentenced a dissident author to death on "Espionage" charges after he gave an interview earlier in the year to an Israeli television channel, opposition-affiliated media reported Thursday.

> In recent days at least 11 people have been sentenced to death for their role in protests and more than 100 face the death penalty, according to opposition groups.

> Protests have gripped Iran since the September 16 death in custody of Iranian-Kurdish Mahsa Amini, 22, after her arrest in Tehran for an alleged breach of the country's strict dress code for women.

Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Iran^#1 death^#2 arrest^#3 protests^#4 report^#5

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AcaAwkward t1_j28nxvf wrote

Nice to see for a change Iranians focusing their energy to topple their own tyranical regime instead of burning US flags and chanting "death to America". I hope they can make it to the other side and flush the madmen in charge.

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--Ary t1_j29nyt0 wrote

Neither those chants nor those flag burnings was as common as you'd think, it was mostly government supporters and others were forced to do it in different forms and government controlled media would air it proudly as their propaganda. it's a common misconception that "Iranians hate west or US and want to destroy it"

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biggKIDD0 t1_j2a6usq wrote

there is a saying sow discord and sit back on throne and rule

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jphistory t1_j2a5vml wrote

What you're discussing was propaganda magnified tenfold in order to justify invading Iraq and Afghanistan. It was part of a campaign of othering aimed at dehumanizing vast swathes of people a d blaming them for the collapse of the twin towers, and it resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. The Iranian people are brave and facing death for their dissent and this isn't the first time they have faced down a brutal regime that would make our little proto fascists crap their pants.

I support the Iranian people and so should you.

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Bigbird_Elephant t1_j29701f wrote

What can the rest of the world do to change the leadership of Iran without military action?

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biggKIDD0 t1_j2a5o5s wrote

help to provide better internet access and freedom

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who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j29aix8 wrote

Work to end religion.

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Whalesurgeon t1_j29mjwr wrote

How would you do that?

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_Ross- t1_j29qb8s wrote

Pro tip: you can't

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who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j29szma wrote

Pro tip: with that attitude I agree you can't.

−4

TopTramp t1_j29w9kn wrote

You want to stop people from having belief or imagination?

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who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j29xhza wrote

No, I want people to stop having religion or at least stop having real religion. The fake woo woke new ones are usually harmless enough.

Nothing I have ever said should be read as me arguing that people should be forced into not having religion.

Put another way: I want everyone to be healthy, I do not want to force anyone to go jogging.

−7

TopTramp t1_j2akou6 wrote

What are you talking about?

I want other people to….. fuck off and let people be themselves, if it’s believing, dreaming, unhealthy or not real Religion in your opinion, what’s it got to do with you?

Perhaps you stop wanting other people to do something and you do something to help your mind.

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who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j2alzj0 wrote

Go tell the Iranian government that. I am not the one forcing my religious views on to people.

1

TopTramp t1_j2apkws wrote

What?

You want people to behave how you want them to, the Iranian gov wants people to behave how they want to.

You are the same - look in the mirror

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who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j2ar38g wrote

Yes, wanting people to live free is exactly the same as wanting to live under an Islamic theocracy.

Hey, how about you spend 30 seconds reading what I wrote instead of what you want me to have written, ok?

1

TopTramp t1_j2as3kh wrote

You’re a joker…..

I realised you were a joke when this happened…

Me: You want to stop people from having belief or imagination.

You: no, I want people to stop having religion

1

who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j2asadm wrote

Yes, I want people to stop having religion. Voluntarily! Just like, as I explained, I want people to be healthy.

1

who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j29uiqk wrote

Iran in particular? I would suggest the world democracies start spending money on sitcoms, dramas, movies, videos, etc. showing Iranian actors and actresses living normal life either without Islam or at most diet-Islam. Then pump that shit into there. Show a million examples to the people there that there is another way to live life. A vast propoganda campaign that advocates for lifestyles instead of nation states. The one thing the west can still make the best is content.

It would cost pennies to any national government let alone the NATO alliance. So much cheaper than any war. Also we really do not have to worry about them doing it to us in kind. Yes, you are now picturing those D.A.R.E programs you watched when you were a kid but trying to convince you to wear a Hijab. "Hey fellow kids, (says the bearded man), it's neato to wear a face covering. I did drugs but now I am high on Allah".

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BoiFrosty t1_j2ad671 wrote

Religion as a whole: no.

Push for an Islamic reformation: yes.

In know reddit hivemind thinks it's super enlightened and above religion, but complete rejection of all religion is not only not feasible, it would be incredibly destructive to basically every country on earth.

Most of the greatest cultural advancements, historical and knowledge preservation and dissemination, and even a large section of technological advancement, of the last 2000 years both here in the west and beyond has been a direct result of religious institutions.

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who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j2aefxj wrote

>Most of the greatest cultural advancements, historical and knowledge preservation and dissemination, and even a large section of technological advancement, of the last 2000 years both here in the west and beyond has been a direct result of religious institutions.

The period of time in human history where monotheism was at its highest strength is called the Dark Ages. Only when religion started losing power did the era of science and engineer begin.

But hey, prove me wrong. I am an engineer. Tell me how religion inspires me at work.

−2

BoiFrosty t1_j2ahjgr wrote

First off I don't think I've heard the term "dark ages" in at least a decade due to its extreme inaccuracy. Second, the medieval period picked up that moniker due to the technological backslide after the fall of the Roman empire.

But let's go over some of the important technologies and advancements spurred on by religious thinking:

  • First universities started by the church

  • First printing press was built to better spread the bible because most books prior had to be hand written by monks.

  • Basically all great collections of knowledge were done by monasteries.

  • most of the great natural philosophers, scientists, and inventors were either directly members of or were educated by the church until almost the 19th century

  • foundations of common law, and the basis of natural rights that form the basis of nearly every major power on the planet were explicitly based on Christian principles and law.

  • a large section of many of the greatest works of art, literature, and philosophy were commissioned by the church, or made by people trained/funded by the church.

  • the main means to argue against the institution of slavery were made on explicitly religious grounds. (Similar to two points prior)

That's what I was able to come up with off the top of my head in under 5 minutes. You act so high and mighty as an engineer, well I'm one too.

Only difference between us is I have the humility to recognize the soil on which our culture and world are built rather than having the hubris to act as though everyone that came before me is some backwards neanderthal.

Believe in God or not, but you can't say the church hasn't been a force for good in the world, or as if our modernity suddenly sprang from the earth fully formed.

1

who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j2aj9xf wrote

I am sorry your PC version of history doesn't call it the Dark Ages anymore. Maybe you can get a refund?

>First universities started by the church

And all the ones that were not that taught real subjects not theology. Why didn't you mention those?

>First printing press was built to better spread the bible because most books prior had to be hand written by monks.

No, the first printing press with moveable type. Do try to get your details right. Was invented to make a dude some money.

>Basically all great collections of knowledge were done by monasteries.

Or kings or random rich people or sultans. Meanwhile it was a major founder of the Church that asked "what does Jesus have to do with Athens?"

>most of the great natural philosophers, scientists, and inventors were either directly members of or were educated by the church until almost the 19th century

Yeah all 5 of them. Good job. Totally makes up for the ones they imprisoned or burned at the stake.

>foundations of common law, and the basis of natural rights that form the basis of nearly every major power on the planet were explicitly based on Christian principles and law.

Not even close to right. There is nothing even resembling common law (which is just an Anglo-Saxon thing anyhow) or natural rights in the Bible.

>a large section of many of the greatest works of art, literature, and philosophy were commissioned by the church, or made by people trained/funded by the church.

Name 4 examples of each without searching online.

>That's what I was able to come up with off the top of my head in under 5 minutes.

Maybe you should take 6 minutes next time, you might be able to come up with 1.

>You act so high and mighty as an engineer, well I'm one too.

An engineeign student, yes? But you can pretend if you want. And yeah I am proud bastard. Are you going to talk about me or defend your claims about how wonder those children fuckers were that caused the black ages?

>Only difference between us is I have the humility to recognize the soil on which our culture and world are built rather than having the hubris to act as though everyone that came before me is some backwards neanderthal.

And so humble about it.

>Believe in God or not, but you can't say the church hasn't been a force for good in the world, or as if our modernity suddenly sprang from the earth fully formed.

Not and those children fuckers caused the Dark Ages.

−4

BoiFrosty t1_j2am4x7 wrote

Yeah we're just gonna keep talking past one another. I forget how obstinate reddit intellectuals(tm) that have never actually read a book are.

Just to humor your points.

Universities: harvard, yale, princeton, oxford, royal college of London, and god only knows how many others in places like Germany, France, and eastern Europe. All founded by or with assistance of the church.

Printing press: I guess we're just completely ignoring Johonas Guttenberg? Ever wonder why "guttenberg bibles" are so famous?

Scientists: astronomy, medicine, history, physics and ecology. Most of the famous names you read in history books were trained by monastic orders, or previously stated church founded and run universities.

Art and culture: sistene chapel, dante's inferno, the russian written language, and SO MUCH MUSIC. We wouldn't have the way we write music without the church. (Though to your credit I had to look up how to spell sistene)

6

BoiFrosty t1_j2amngt wrote

Rage seethe and cope all you want about how awesome your own boundless intelligence and enlightened mind is, but you are a petulant child without an original or deep idea in your head. All you have said this far are empty, repeated, and factually incomprehensible insults.

5

who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j2ar5ze wrote

And the personal attacks, the last refugee of a theist who can't murder their opponents.

−7

Additional_Meeting_2 t1_j2ahmqu wrote

Because countries that aren’t based on religion like North Korea would never do this.

2

who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j2ajoo8 wrote

Because someone who never smoke got lung cancer, cigarettes never cause lung cancer. Damn, my atheism is defeated, nooooo. Also Juche.

Tell your buddies to give you stronger arguments next time.

1

outtathesky_fellapie t1_j29v9h2 wrote

Tell me you dont know fuck about shit without telling me you dont know fuck about shit. Imagine still believing all these asshats are being motivated by some book. Maybe one day you will be able to see through thinly veiled motivations attributed to a book, when in reality they are all actually about money, power, and exerting those things over other people.

−10

who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j29xvzw wrote

Yes, you definitely convinced me.

When people tell you what they are about you should listen. The Iranian government makes no secret about it's relationship with Islam.

4

biggKIDD0 t1_j2a6e5p wrote

its both and prolly more that we don't know, bunch of power hungry knobheaded radical liars they are who use brainwash in peace times and kill children in distressed times

2

who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j2a9usb wrote

Why is the idea that ideas matter so distressing to people?

If I went around telling people that I hate some race and then attacked a person of that race, I am confident someone on the internet will say "the real reason was because of x, not his racism".

Iran leadership continues to tell us, over and over and over again, what they want and we keep getting bothered by it and want some deep hidden meaning because the very concept that what we believe impacts our life is upsetting. I truly do not know what the motivation for this is, and I have done it myself.

Ideas matter, beliefs matter, they make us act differently.

1

biggKIDD0 t1_j2afvnb wrote

of course setting our entire life based on a single label or teachings are foolish and distressing, much more if it's based in a senile anti-freedom mf who believes in only his interpretation of a book and verbal texts in the 7th century so he can and should rape captive humans because they are apparently nothing but trophys of war in which they are against evil kids who are fighting God plus kills unarmed humans for stepping up to condem the killings of women with "wrong sense of fashion choices" and thinks he is in power because God is with him...

yeah that's alot of killing and its just like their books and scripture, ahadith, etc and the most beautiful parts are Enunciation of the heavenly virgin beautys for the faithful... yes there are harmless ones too but the gov is like this.

1

becksrunrunrun t1_j29n9eh wrote

I wish a slow brutal death to all the assholes trying to eradicate the freedoms and spirit of the Iranian citizens. What can we do to help you Iran?

16

biggKIDD0 t1_j2a8bo1 wrote

your good words warm my heart, i guess speaking about it everywhere about these criminals and also to your politicians to announce IRGC as terorist organization helps also we need more internet access and freedom more than guns probably

5

Full-Association-175 t1_j29uivj wrote

The Iranian spring was planted by the women who bled for their country. Now just like 50 years ago a cruel regime is on its last legs, but they're going to be able to take many down as they go the way of the Shah. Iranian men must support their women. Iranians must take their country back, and disconnect religion from that hellishly draconian government.

12

severeOCDsuburbgirl t1_j2bpoue wrote

Many men are supporting the women of Iran. Most people executed for speaking out have been men.

4

FraccazzoDaVelletri t1_j29deqi wrote

A glorious people suffocated by a theocratic dictatorship is trying to raise up and I hope they succeed

10

manor2003 t1_j290gzy wrote

I'm playing The Witcher 3 right now and they give death sentences here for every little thing but that understandable because it's the 13th century but to think in the 21st century in some countries it's possible to be sentenced to death for giving an interview to a TV channel of an enemy country or for refusing to wear a piece of cloth, truly terrifying.

6

biggKIDD0 t1_j2a7l4z wrote

ikr! these garbage knobheads literally came out of a bad fairytale that won't tolerate other opinion beside itself. kids and journalist are essential people nowadays and will not harm folks but they do pose a threat to the who we know

2

Melodic-Hunter2471 t1_j29ra6e wrote

Dear Iran,

WTF are you thinking? Day in day out we ( the world ) are getting troubling news from you.

Look! Look at America! They haven’t been in a war in a little over a year. They are starting to exhibit withdrawal symptoms. Do you see how they are looking at you? Do you see them laying close to the ground, pupils dilated, wiggling their rump like a house cat hunting a mouse?

At some point toning down the totalitarian act isn’t just about introducing humanity in to your lives, it might be more about self preservation.

Sincerely yours,

A concerned citizen of the cat butt.

6

jphistory t1_j2a6949 wrote

We are crazy but not enough to go to war against nations with nukes. Iran is safe from overt US interference though I can't speak for CIA meddling.

2

Melodic-Hunter2471 t1_j2a7iqh wrote

They don’t have nukes yet. They have the capacity to build them, but the sanctions prevents that from happening.

However Iran keeps saber rattling their nuclear enrichment programs.

( Cat butt wiggling intensifies. )

3

Knocksveal t1_j29sbj3 wrote

Iran leapt forward taking the lead in the Shittiest Country in the World competition, a fiercely contested honor with pretty much only the CRINK 4 (China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea) have a shot at it.

6

MessiSahib t1_j2cfru5 wrote

Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Qatar, Myanmar?

1

Knocksveal t1_j2cgfka wrote

They stink badly obviously. But the fact that they don’t have nuclear weapon makes them less a global concern.

1

[deleted] t1_j2a7845 wrote

[deleted]

0

DaNo1CheeseEata t1_j2ac2b6 wrote

You're all over every thread about Iran backing the regime and saying, "WHATABOUTAMERICA."

Just in case anyone is wondering why.

Volunteers found Iran's propaganda effort on Reddit — but their warnings were ignored

>we also might have the largest number of Covid deaths per capita

No one in the world but you, Russia and Iran would make this claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

10

[deleted] t1_j2acate wrote

[deleted]

−1

DaNo1CheeseEata t1_j2acrsi wrote

No, I'm more certainly not. Yeah, the Iranian government is totally great and Afghanistan was all about them, great analysis. Iran has to have the worst propaganda on the planet. Even North Korea wouldn't stoop to this.

4

[deleted] t1_j2acx4o wrote

[deleted]

1

DaNo1CheeseEata t1_j2ad4ma wrote

Blatant disinformation and lies. No one is confused.

>Which was propaganda.

I know Iranian propaganda is out of touch mostly because of how little access you have to foreign media but this is nuts.

‘Death to America’: Iran MPs burn American flag in parliament

Hundreds of thousands of Iranian turn out for Death to America

Lawmakers chant 'death to America' in Iranian parliament

AP FACT CHECK: ‘Death to America’ chants live on in Iran

7

pewpewpewouch t1_j2ai60z wrote

The Iranian regime claims to be a group of elders who know what's best. In reality they are amongst the most barbaric, vile and vulgar figures in the world. Especially the Ayahtollas.

6

pax27 t1_j28mu9h wrote

They're really going full Oprah with the death sentences now. Horrible!

3

syizm t1_j29salr wrote

Killing dissenters has worked so well historically.

2

westdl t1_j2a3auy wrote

Can we unleash our cults after their cult? Send in the Evangelicals and the Scientologists. Say goodbye Supreme Leader.

2

machingunwhhore t1_j2at4lo wrote

That's how you know you're on the side that God has chosen huh? For killing people just for talking to your enemy

2

Jessica65Perth t1_j2buygg wrote

Iran is not led by people of faith..It is led by people who use faith to help retain power.

2

pjx1 t1_j29jo6y wrote

Religions are just accepted hate groups.

1

FitPast1362 t1_j29n5qy wrote

And where are the American aircraft carriers to put manners on these dickheads?

1

Dat_Scrub t1_j2bjsdg wrote

And what did he think would happen? His government would give him a medal?

1

AggregatedAggrevate t1_j2cg2kw wrote

As an Iranian it’s impossible to reject Israeli history as the two are intertwined…

1

Trax852 t1_j2bqpyg wrote

Dictator trump would have long lines to the gas chambers, for people that didn't like him.

−1

Bolinas99 t1_j2841bz wrote

we're laughing but Florida (and sadly the US) are catching up. We just execute people en masse and don't need edicts from crazy mullahs. Just a Fox or Newsmax subscription and a sick mind.

e: typo

−108

Gatkramp t1_j286hko wrote

The last time Florida executed someone was in 2019. Both executions that year were of convicted serial killers.

No matter your stance on capital punishment, comparing the execution of convicted murders to the execution of dissidents and their relatives is obscene. The worst kind of whataboutism.

68

Bolinas99 t1_j287ovt wrote

capital punishment isn't even the main culprit here. Dylan Roof, Jim Addkisson, Payton Gendron, etc, etc are not state actors but are enabled by those who control most state governments, the public airwaves and most media. No point in condemning one form of evil while ignoring others. Bye now 😉

−65

TPosingRat t1_j28kk78 wrote

>No point in condemning one form of evil while ignoring others.

Dude really?

19

who_said_I_am_an_emu t1_j29a7ry wrote

Kyle Rittenhouse okay maybe, but Dylan Roof they are trying really hard to give him the death penalty. Even conservatives don't like the idea of someone just walking into a church and shooting.

0