Comments
maxinator80 t1_j1zz6ub wrote
It has always been dangerous, with target attacks and even murders, but there has always been a community in the more modern cities.
AllahAndJesusGaySex t1_j20r7fi wrote
Oh yeah. There is always a community where ever there are people. But, I know how horrible the LGBTQ+ community has been treated there. So, it just amazes me that there was really anything allowed publicly that showed they exist.
MasterBot98 t1_j20y6em wrote
Krasovsky,the dude who talked about drowning Ukrainian babies was one of the first gays to publicly come out in times when Russia was pretty conservative(in that regard anyway) even in the big cities,and obv in the media. Also, before talking about drowning Ukrainian children he talked about similar stuff about Ukrainians in general, which got no big reaction from his audience.
elifodep t1_j24926g wrote
Moscow, and probably St.Petersburg (where this museum was) is not typical Russia. They have some money
Isthisworking2000 t1_j22jkcm wrote
I mean, Holocaust museums exist. They should always remember the things Russia has done to them.
Pottymouthoftheyear t1_j1yqd2f wrote
The man needs to go back to having cancer.
sephelutis t1_j1zfwll wrote
How much suffering can be avoided if just one man kicks the bucket
thruster_fuel69 t1_j1zinh8 wrote
If ever there was a man to die..
Thatsidechara_ter t1_j215ynf wrote
He'd probably just getting replaced by someone doing the exact same shit. Russia will always be the same until the Russian culture, which isn't likely any time soon.
[deleted] t1_j2171lb wrote
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Koss424 t1_j22d0q3 wrote
careful what you wish for. Russia in a power vacuum doesn't usually lead to more moderate leaders.
ThereIsNoGame t1_j1yzgzh wrote
Minor correction sorry, you got it the wrong way around, cancer has Putin.
BedDefiant4950 t1_j1zlu1x wrote
it is fucking hard to root for cancer, but...
Padhome t1_j207i6i wrote
You can do it, cancer. I believe in you. ✨⚰️
JonMeadows t1_j1zmrha wrote
Go Cancer!
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TRIBETWELVE t1_j1yun2j wrote
Just a friendly reminder that the first book burnings in Nazi Germany were of an institution that led the way in LGBTQIA+ research, specifically Trans research.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft
die_a_third_death t1_j1yxujx wrote
Yup. It really set LGBT rights in Germany back several decades.
ThereIsNoGame t1_j1yzrb0 wrote
There's this permanent fixture now:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_to_Homosexuals_Persecuted_Under_Nazism
I think this, right in the middle of Berlin, is fitting and appropriate.
Creepy-Explanation91 t1_j1zuvg1 wrote
It’s a giant concrete cube with a tiny screen of two dudes kissing inside? Not a very creative or artistic design is it? Wouldn’t a big statue of two guys kissing both send a better message and be more artistically pleasing? Is there a specific reason for it being just a giant cube? It’s a very important monument since gay men were heavily persecuted by the Nazis but the article doesn’t give much information and I have a-lot of questions about why the design was chosen.
ThereIsNoGame t1_j1zz0nb wrote
I'm not an art critic, but my understanding this is in parallel with the memorial to the murdered jews of europe:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_to_the_Murdered_Jews_of_Europe
As the maze of blocks represents the fear, confusion and directionlessness of the jews in that dark time, so too does the concrete cube, and it's unassuming exterior, represents the way the gender diverse had to hide their identity, remain closeted, to avoid persecution. Only by getting close, can you see who they really were.
Art is most powerful when it's subtle. Art should not tell a story to the audience, but instead guide the audience in the direction of the conclusions they should make. It's not there to answer questions, but ask questions and challenge the audience to understand the answers.
Why have Mount Rushmore when you could just put up a big sign that says "Washington, Jefferson, Roosevelt and Lincoln were all good presidents."?
Creepy-Explanation91 t1_j1zzl10 wrote
I guess that makes sense. I really don’t understand modern art.
burgermiester288 t1_j20nbdi wrote
It's meant to reflect how queer men had to hide their love. Like your coming across something you shouldn't see.
apple_kicks t1_j1yywni wrote
In some cases esp in nazi occupied areas that previously saw more of a strong lgbt scene (Paris and Amsterdam) took til 60s or 2010s to get rights back on track
MBH1800 t1_j20nqu5 wrote
Worst thing I read about the holocaust was that when the camps were liberated, most inmates still alive were released and sent to hospital care - except the homosexuals, who were transferred to prisons to serve out their "sentence". It was still illegal under the new government as well.
Johannes_P t1_j20wo0e wrote
Moreover, the time spent in KZ wasn't treated as prison, meaning they were kept even longer than their initial sentence.
MBH1800 t1_j2146r1 wrote
Jesus Fucking Christ, that's horrible.
Johannes_P t1_j20wk4l wrote
Yep, the Nazi era aggravation of the paragraph 175 was retained after 1945 and until the end.
chatte__lunatique t1_j21s69h wrote
Not just in Germany, across the world. Hirschfeld's work was groundbreaking, and the loss of his research and treatment documentation was so devastating to queer and especially trans healthcare, that it's not an exaggeration to compare it to the loss of the Library of Alexandria.
[deleted] t1_j1z4jwq wrote
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WikiSummarizerBot t1_j1yuofq wrote
Institut für Sexualwissenschaft
>The Institut für Sexualwissenschaft was an early private sexology research institute in Germany from 1919 to 1933. The name is variously translated as Institute of Sex Research, Institute of Sexology, Institute for Sexology or Institute for the Science of Sexuality. The Institute was a non-profit foundation situated in Tiergarten, Berlin. It was the first sexology research center in the world.
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Ksnj t1_j20u6e3 wrote
Maaaaaaan, every time I see this, it makes me so fucking upset. As a trans person myself, not being able to be myself for over 3 decades, due mostly to lack of information/representation, has caused catastrophic damage. What would trans lives look like if the Nazis (current iteration included) were not around? Our mental/physical health be so much better……so many lives could have been saved.
chatte__lunatique t1_j21q37t wrote
Yeah it's super depressing. We lost so much knowledge because of the Nazis, knowledge that could have saved countless trans and queer lives. And that's not even getting into how many queer people the Nazis — followed by the Allies who let us continue to rot in the camps — murdered directly.
I wonder what my childhood might've been like if that knowledge hadn't been burnt to the ground, and had instead become widespread...
postsshortcomments t1_j1y7xvq wrote
Now they're at the 'taking it out on their spouse because they lost the mortgage payment on blackjack' stage.
Express_Opposite t1_j1yccy8 wrote
Yikes. Kristallnacht next?
Bad_Bug t1_j1yu8ps wrote
I think the correct term is pogrom https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom
Express_Opposite t1_j1z7o0o wrote
Ah. Very true
Thue t1_j1yxs01 wrote
Jews are somehow always among the first to be persecuted. Some Jews are already leaving for that reason. The Chief Rabbi of Moscow does not dare return to Russia until the situation changes.
burgermiester288 t1_j1yzxcb wrote
Jews see the gays being persecuted and know they're next, they know when to leave
BullsBlackhawks t1_j1z06pb wrote
What about reformed orthodox rabbi Bill Clinton?
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Thue t1_j1z6kok wrote
The NAZI stab in the back propaganda against Jews contained arguments like Jews controlling society etc.. Russia will almost certainly make their own stab-in-the-back retcon if they lose, to avoid the blame going to leaders like Putin. Highly placed Jews are absolutely not safe, in fact they will make excellent scapegoats, and Jewish oligarch wealth will be free money when confiscated.
Express_Opposite t1_j1z7jw1 wrote
Wow dude
RevolutionaryCreme35 t1_j1z8b05 wrote
I think some people took it the wrong way, but I was just stating the facts. Main propagandist Soloviev is Jewish, I can't really see him being targeted. They'll just blame the partisans and "foreign agents".
nachoolo t1_j1z840x wrote
I suppose that they will use their long knives before going for the Jews as a whole...
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Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1yflvz wrote
Germany legalized gay marriage since the end of 2017.
Using German powerwords doesn't make you tough.
Russia just needs more time to also modernise.
Express_Opposite t1_j1yinpp wrote
Might be time to call a bondulance, mate, you’re being incoherent.
dar_uniya t1_j1ymw6g wrote
go back to russia then
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1yo83r wrote
Please do tell me where I said that I agree with Russia.
I'll wait, but not too long. Good luck.
dar_uniya t1_j1zg3ri wrote
you didn’t shit on them. that’s the tell. enjoy winter.
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zj3yk wrote
So I just need to wish death to millions of innocent people and that would make you happy?
And why exactly do you think I would do that?
dar_uniya t1_j1zjs20 wrote
shitting on russia is not wishing death.
taking “shitting” and equating it with genocide is something they advocate to their fans to do.
go back to russia.
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zk68i wrote
I already decided that you are a shit person. So I won't try again.
Let me mute you since all you do is troll.
zeagnorm t1_j1yt69l wrote
At this point it's gonna take them another however fucking long to modernize with how much they've fucked over their entire country
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1ytlp6 wrote
It starts with the people themselves rising up against the government.
die_a_third_death t1_j1yweu9 wrote
>Russia just needs more time to also modernise
Nobody got patience for that anymore. Hurry up or you'll be left behind.
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1ywmgm wrote
Like I said, get off your high horse and stop pretending like you are a saint of some sort. Your country only recently invented LGBTQ rights.
Don't trot around like it always been like that. It's cringe.
die_a_third_death t1_j1ywv7z wrote
>Your country only recently invented LGBTQ rights
Is the 70s considered recent in your dictionary? Also if you think the LGBT rights movement simply ends with the legalization of same-sex marriage then you're pretty ignorant.
burgermiester288 t1_j1z02ev wrote
"cringe". go home child
QueasyHouse t1_j1yl0ea wrote
Power Word: Oppress
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PromiscuousMNcpl t1_j1yxn6g wrote
If Russia needs more time to modernize then why is it going backwards?
burgermiester288 t1_j1yzscg wrote
Russia is actively homophobic, they support Chechnya puting queer men in death camps, they aren't "modernizing"
NoelBlack14 t1_j1z3fww wrote
Hello, German here, So non German historians aren’t allowed to use the word Panzer? Or in this matter: are you defending Nazi Germany???
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zja6y wrote
Using German powerwords doesn't make you tough.
try again.
And how exactly am I defending Nazi's? Why are people making shit up? Does it make you feel better to just claim things I never said?
Sbeast t1_j1yo4al wrote
So aside from invading their neighbour, and committing 50,000 alleged war crimes, they're also persecuting LGBT people in Russia itself.
If only it were possible to just say or do something that made people come to their senses, and become far better people, but I guess it doesn't always work like that.
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Krivvan t1_j1ywfh0 wrote
I'm assuming you're trying to refer to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes
Where violent clashes resulted in both sides of a protest throwing molotovs at each other, with at least one starting a fire.
Wording it the way you did makes it sound like a group just rounded some innocent people up into a building and set it on fire and leaves out the very contextually important violent clashes.
>This rally was later attacked by an anti-Maidan mob of 300 from the group Odesskaya Druzhina armed with bats and firearms at Hretska Street.
>Following the attack on the pro-Maidan rally, numerous fights broke out. Both sides fought running battles against one other, exchanging stones and petrol bombs, and built barricades throughout the city during the afternoon.
>According to OHCHR both sides had various kinds of helmets, masks, shields, axes, wooden or metal sticks, and firearms. According to OmTV there were mostly air pistols and the first actual firearms use was by Antimaidan activist Vitaly Budko ("Botsman") who opened fire with an AK-74 rifle using 5.45 bullets.
>While defending the building, militants on the roof tossed rocks and petrol bombs at the protesters below. BBC News said that the situation was unclear, with multiple sources indicating that both sides had been throwing petrol bombs at each other.
Calling it "a house" makes me think you literally didn't even know the first thing about this incident and just heard the name "Trade Union House fire."
goodplayer111 t1_j1yxvtg wrote
Yeah. Point is, what russia says that there is a big nazi problem in ukraine is true. But no one cares that russians in ukraine are being harrased because ukraine is at war with russia and "russians are always the bad guys"
Krivvan t1_j1yyiey wrote
You just pivoted from "evil Ukrainians are executing Russians" to "Russians are being harassed."
But even if we pretend and take you at your word 100%, does that somehow justify an invasion, attempted annexation of territory, and persecution of LGBT people within Russia? That's on the same level as "Russians are being harassed?" An invasion of a country with a native Russian-speaking President that opposed the very language laws you'll say are the source of the harassment? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-parliament-language-idUSKCN1S111N
Do you support the invasion of any country with ultranationalists in it? Because I can name a few.
Hey, LGBT people are being harassed in Russia. Does that give everyone the clear to invade Russia and seize territory?
P00TiZ t1_j1yyyb4 wrote
Russians in Ukraine are only harassed when they openly support invasion. Literally no one gives a fuck if you are russian and love putin as long as you keep your mouth shut. And yes, russians ARE bad guys, you act just like nazi Germany, what did you expect?
Thatsidechara_ter t1_j216j94 wrote
I wouldn't go so far as calling all Russians bad, although I digress it does seem that there's a fairly pronounced homophobic culture in Russia itself
burgermiester288 t1_j1z0hur wrote
No there isn't. For f""ks sake thier prez is Jewish. No one's harassing ethnic Russians, that's Russia propaganda (and it's really a recycled version of the propaganda Nazis used to justify invading Poland. I'm queer and the Russians are the bad guys here
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Spyt1me t1_j1zlg6j wrote
Big nazi problem is when 2/3rd of a country elects a jew who's grandfather died fighting against nazies lmao.
Your arguments are completely unfounded.
MasterBot98 t1_j216f9s wrote
Harassing Russians in mass in Ukraine is practically impossible cos we are so alike. As other said,the only way to see the Russians among Ukrainians is generally when they are exceptionally patriotic. Which by general Russian logic would make them nazis, cos their logic sees no difference between patriotism/nationalism/nazism. And then the well known “Russians cannot be nazis” comes in, which is ironically a statement of superiority, which proves that,again, such Russians have no clue what actual Nazism is, and that they have this problem at scale.
"cares that russians in ukraine are being harrased"
What kind of Russians? The ultrapatriotic ones? My first paragraph should tell you enough on my stance on them. And about the others, we treat them like we treat Ukrainians, cos we don't give a fuck (ok that might get worse a bit cos of war but oh well). The only actor who has an actual tendency to harras/disregard/unjustly persecute/outright kill for political reasons Russians is Russian govt and your own ultrapatriots. And when you command "attack" to your "ultrapatriots" and outright Nazis to attack on Ukraine,ofc you will get results like Bucha, it is expected, really.
The only real big differences between Russian nazism and German one-
- You figured out that calling everyone else a Nazi works wonders.
2.And you traded racial superiority for a kind of cultural one. That's it, that's how short the list is,everything else like hate on the pacifists, secret police, superiority complex(even if a slightly different one), intense propaganda and everything else is exactly the same. If you want links, just say to what and I will find them.
burgermiester288 t1_j1z091y wrote
Don't start a Molotov cocktail fight if you're in a wooden house
rabobar t1_j1zfm5e wrote
Stay out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat
lordofedging81 t1_j206ryq wrote
2 wrongs don't make a right.
Also, this is one incident.
1is a smaller number than 50,000.
Sbeast t1_j20igo6 wrote
I only know a little about the events around 2014, but some of it sounded terrible. All atrocities are wrong. I also read some of the war crimes in the current conflict have been committed by Ukraine's Armed Forces too, but on a lesser scale.
DewyMossEmpire t1_j1zjl51 wrote
I'm amazed they had one to begin with.
RagingHeretic t1_j1z187f wrote
Ron DeSantis is feverishly taking notes...
heathers1 t1_j1zcu7y wrote
It’s so weird how 34 percent od Republicans feel exactly the way Putin does on similar issues. Hmm wonder how that happened?
Johannes_P t1_j20wri9 wrote
It might be the reverse: they held such ideas before discovering Putin agreed with them.
BrownBear109 t1_j21d7si wrote
As their only consistent national identity revolves around being counter to the west, there was actually a period of time where the Soviet Union fell and russia decriminalized homosexuality in 1991, decriminalized homosexual relationships in 1993, and in 1997 allowed transpeople to officially register as the gender which they identified with.
This coincided with the period of time when the US was struggling with gays in the military, the ramifications of the AIDS crisis from the 1980’s, and Focus on the Family was trying to re-criminalize homosexuality in America.
As the west grew stronger, and gay acceptance became a significant part of western identity, russia decided that maybe the gays didn’t need protecting after all
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Stock_Rush2555 t1_j21nh7u wrote
This no doubt coincides with a massive upsurge in Russian captains raping young conscript men to "toughen them up"
Russia is the most closeted nation ever. Have you seen Russian ballet? Have you seen how full they pack their crotch? It would be comedic, if it wasn't against a backdrop of sexual repression and taboo rape
hypnos_surf t1_j229k8z wrote
Is this weird considering not too long ago the only relevant culture Russia has given the world within the last 20 years was a duo music group that themed themselves on their homosexuality.
Russia loves riding through history on a roller coaster.
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Martianmanhunter94 t1_j223vpo wrote
Vlad the Impaler needs to come out of the closet.
LocustSwarm36 t1_j22hib3 wrote
Love me some Reichstag Fire Decree
Isthisworking2000 t1_j22jhcm wrote
Seems like the sort of time in Russia to keep your head down and pray.
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nzdennis t1_j21nl36 wrote
Compulsory Burka is next
aaaanoon t1_j20cngp wrote
Brave owner. Like having an Atheist museum in the states.
burgermiester288 t1_j20mwdd wrote
Are atheists beaten to death in the streets in the us? Do atheist kids get kicked out of their homes at three times the rate of non atheist kids in the us? Any existent oppression of atheists in the us is not even comparable to queer oppression in the us, let alone russia
aaaanoon t1_j20wn1q wrote
Fair
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govi96 t1_j1yjhjz wrote
wtf is lgbtq+ museum?
Neil2250 t1_j1ykpru wrote
general history of how it's evolved publicly, decriminalization and celebrations spurred from that (if applicable), public openness, milestones in media, etc. I assume, anyway.
Similar to suffragette-focused museums in terms of topic areas i reckon.
Edit: It's more constructive to downvote unhelpful answers and upvote the original question to help spread awareness of helpful answers, but whatever.
Ok_Consideration6849 t1_j1yk85j wrote
Exactly what it sounds like.
burgermiester288 t1_j1z0jwr wrote
A museum about queer folk
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Natural-Coffee9711 t1_j1ygalr wrote
As someone from Eastern Europe just wanting to marry his partner: fuck this thinking. “Just wait a couple more years to get your basic rights lol”
TrumpetSC2 t1_j1yi1nh wrote
Very well said!
ChrisTchaik t1_j1yn21h wrote
You're building your entire argument around gay marriage when this isn't even about gay marriage. The last time a Western country had a similar law was in the 60s/70s/80s. Bear in mind that the same law has been extended to include adults, which is unheard of in the Western world.
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burgermiester288 t1_j1z11ft wrote
Queer person here, you have no clue what you're talking about so shut the hell up
PfizerGuyzer t1_j1yxf1e wrote
You're pretending that only being given civil partnerships is equivalent to burning down your museums.
Ask_Me_If_I_Am_Flynn t1_j1yk0qz wrote
People are only on a high horse because people they care about are getting trampled
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Ask_Me_If_I_Am_Flynn t1_j1yp6uz wrote
Yeah and why is Russia 50 years behind hmm? You're a fucking human paraquat
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burgermiester288 t1_j1z1hfe wrote
Religion and their own bigotry is holding them back, this crap is popular with Russians. Russia has always been a homophobic hell hole. The Russians started their war and choose their own death
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zjm2m wrote
You should try to find "open minded" people in any remote area where the only information source is some guy on TV.
Most Russians have no idea what's going on. They just get the news that Russia is at war with Ukraine.
There's no why and how. And they can't fact check anything.
Maybe just watch older videos of Bald and Bankrupt to see what real Russia is like, and how isolated they are.
burgermiester288 t1_j1zjw9o wrote
Thier information source is the government, and the church, hence the homophobia
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zlbqy wrote
Yeah religion is a 2000 year old backwards ideology that has been altered countless of times to appease the church.
Correct, now try and change people into believing that their entire life is a lie and that it's all wrong.
That's going to be difficult.
burgermiester288 t1_j1z1and wrote
Nah, not every country was supporting states that put us in death camps. You don't care about queer folk, you care about how much you get paid.
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zjq6c wrote
I care about human rights.
That means all humans, not just the ones you like.
burgermiester288 t1_j1zk53r wrote
Than why are you treating a government that supports chechyians putting queer men in death camps with kid gloves
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zkafg wrote
I'm not, you just made that up.
ZhouDa t1_j1ypjhe wrote
Russia is some two hundred years behind when it comes to freedom of speech. This isn't solely about gay rights, but also the fact that discussing the subject gets you thrown in jail.
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Defiant__Idea t1_j1yqu0a wrote
You clearly know nothing about Russia and its history.
burgermiester288 t1_j1z136c wrote
This is about queer rights, not free speech, and cops are pos
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zjzi4 wrote
I haven't run into a single cop in my life that is a bad cop.
Try again bigot.
Free speech and freedom to be gay are very VERY closely related.
Russia doesn't allow either of them.
They should, but they don't. Not yet anyway
burgermiester288 t1_j1zkupq wrote
Every cop I've met is absolute trash and the police have a history of abusing queer folk. Russians actively oppress queer folks and are oppressing us worse everyday
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zl2mv wrote
And there you go. Your personal experience of dealing with cops reflects the entire world.
Great job on setting an example.
burgermiester288 t1_j1zzhfu wrote
My experience and the experience of every other queer person I know
Sniffy4 t1_j1yg9e9 wrote
Maybe, but change doesnt come without fighting for it, ever.
burgermiester288 t1_j1z0wmm wrote
It's not new and never has been, you dips""t. We queer folks have always existed. They won't come around, they've repeatedly proven this, they are actively getting worse and okay chechnyian "work" camps that queer men are murdered in. You are just a troll, how many rubles do you get paid per comment?
TrumpetSC2 t1_j20zse0 wrote
Yeah the above poster you replied to is one of those people that are so wrong that even if they were right about the claim, they would still be wrong lol because the entire premise is false.
Like its not like queer ppl have it great in parts of the US now because gay marriage is legal, so how does their comment even make sense on any level lol.
Spyt1me t1_j1zk2fx wrote
>People should really get off their high horse on LGBTQ rights.It's all new for most countries. And Russia is just walking behind. They'll come around eventually.
Can you tell this in person to a Russian queer who fled their country because of queerphobia? Because i dont think you have the guts to do so.
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zkwpv wrote
I literally said that you need to stop acting all mighty and that Russia will come around getting basic human rights in order eventually.
I'm literally against how Russia treats people, and still you somehow fabricate that I love how it's in Russia right now. You are delusional.
And now you say I wouldn't dare to tell a asylum seeker from Russia that it will be alright in due time and that everything will be fine?
You have no idea how the real world works huh?
Or you simply think that Russian LGBTQ people are just aggressive mindless beasts without the capability top listen such as yourself.
Because that's actually what you said.
Spyt1me t1_j1zmoj4 wrote
Acting all high and mighty is when we demand basic human rights and equal treatment lmao
You sure talk from a place of privilege where you never had experienced the full might of the state aggressively attacking you and trying to create a deadly culture against you, and never were relentlessly shamed and bullied and forced into hiding.
Shut the fuck up, you are the one talking high and mighty from his high tower made of privilege.
E.: This mf just blocked me because he got offended at me saying shut the fuck up lmao what an absolute privileged snowflake
Glass_Cat_666 t1_j1zsxgt wrote
"Shut the fuck up"
Atta boy, that's the spirit I expected from you. Well done.
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AllahAndJesusGaySex t1_j1zaf2y wrote
I think the real news here is that Russia had an LGBTQ+ museum at all.