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tiredofmakingthese9 t1_j2chxrg wrote

I'll drink to that

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T-nash t1_j2f9po2 wrote

We have a song for that called pour the wine, "gini lic" in armenian. Made for another person who's death needed wines to celebrate.

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tiredofmakingthese9 t1_j2fa0ac wrote

Yea but thats more for soldiers and martyrs than some shitstain at thw bottom of our shoes

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T-nash t1_j2faatf wrote

It's actually about the assassination of talaat pasha, one of the main 3 of the people responsible for our Genocide.

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tiredofmakingthese9 t1_j2fal9y wrote

Sure but its still made for a hero that assassinated talaat, we dont know who shot this guy

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T-nash t1_j2fatbf wrote

Oh, didn't check your profile before replying.

Anyway, yeah, we don't. They're one of those hidden heroes among society.

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balkanobeasti t1_j2chki6 wrote

That was legitimately the only way he was ever going to have any tolerance enter his head.

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miaara t1_j2ck3rg wrote

Ending 2022 with a bang. 🥳

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[deleted] t1_j2culcu wrote

[deleted]

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NeurodiverseTurtle t1_j2daha3 wrote

Can some kind soul fill me in? I’m at work and can’t spend time googling if this is interesting or not.

(I like to stay up to date, but I usually ignore Turkish news because their president indulges Putin too often. Can’t help but see Erdogan and Orban as traitors to the free world—can’t play both sides in this war lads, Russia are the new Nazis)

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Pls-No-Bully t1_j2dd18z wrote

>(I like to stay up to date, but I usually ignore Turkish news because their president indulges Putin too often. Can’t help but see Erdogan and Orban as traitors to the free world—can’t play both sides in this war, Russia are the new Nazis)

You do know that the Grey Wolves were created by NATO as part of Operation Gladio, right?

They funded, trained, and coordinated with Alparslan Türkeş, a far-right Turkish politician, as part of [Counter-Guerrilla](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Guerrilla#Tactical_Mobilization_Group_(1952%E2%80%931965)). Türkeş then created the Nationalist Movement Party and its militant youth wing, the Grey Wolves.

> The CIA employed people from the far right, such as Pan-Turkist SS-member Ruzi Nazar (father of Sylvia Nasar),[17] to train the Grey Wolves ^[[Source]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Guerrilla#Tactical_Mobilization_Group_(1952%E2%80%931965))

The Grey Wolves are actually enemies of Erdogan, Russia, China, and even the PKK (considering the PKK's communist roots).

Say what you want about Putin, Erdogan, etc., I'm certainly not defending them, but this Turkish Nazi-equivalent was literally created by NATO.

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NeurodiverseTurtle t1_j2dn0rl wrote

I didn’t even mention NATO, but thanks for the info. I won’t check if it’s legit or not though, because by that logic you could argue that the US ‘created’ Osama Bin Laden… which gets said a lot, but is actually an absurdity, considering you can’t possibly predict the free will of quite literally anyone.

To me it kinda sounds like you’ve just got an agenda against NATO. Which is fine, you-do-you bro.

But NATO requires cooperation between all member states, so I find it unlikely that blame could be placed solely on what is effectively just a defensive alliance, and not some kind of shady world-govt…

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amckaazli t1_j2drpmn wrote

Spot on.

Gladio organizations such as Grey Wolves popped in virtually all NATO countries under threat of Soviet influence during the Cold War, not just Turkey.

However it was Turkey's decision not to disband them once the Cold War ended and use them against the Kurdish insurgency. Grey Wolves haven't been under NATO/CIA influence for more than 30 years now. It has become its own thing and rebranded itself as the youth wing of MHP (ultranationalists) to legitimize its existence. Claiming NATO has anything to do with Grey Wolves as it exists today is completely baseless (and I really don't see the point in pushing such an agenda?).

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ZrvaDetector t1_j2e2k6a wrote

They stopped being a militant group after the Cold War. If Kurdish parties like HDP which blatantly support PKK are accepted into the parliment, why wouldn't the nationalists be accepted?

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amckaazli t1_j2ec4w2 wrote

They haven't stopped being a militant group- after the 80s they started receiving direct state support and the state started filling up Turkish military ranks with Grey Wolves affiliates. Groups such as JITEM and others were directly associated with Grey Wolves and were heavily utilized against Kurdish insurgents and leftists alike, basically working as state assassins under protection of the military.

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ZrvaDetector t1_j2ednxc wrote

Existance of JITEM ended a few years after the Cold War. This stuff happened in the 90's.

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amckaazli t1_j2emctj wrote

JITEM was said to be active as late as late 90s. Grey Wolves affiliated organizations are still active as of today within police and military ranks (JOH and POH).

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notehp t1_j2dszrn wrote

> I won’t check if it’s legit or not though, because by that logic you could argue that the US ‘created’ Osama Bin Laden…

How does that even remotely compare? CIA together with other Western intelligence agencies recruited specifically far-right (including literal Nazis) paramilitary groups in numerous countries, which were then integrated into NATO, in order to have local resistance in case of a Soviet attack. The US didn't recruit bin Laden to be a terrorist, but the US actually did recruited these paramilitary groups to be exactly far-right militants and terrorists. In some countries investigations have brought to light that the CIA has indeed at times encouraged these paramilitary groups to commit false flag acts of violence and terror in order to turn public opinion against the left or prepare to commit terrorist attacks in case left-wing parties win elections (examples: Italy, Switzerland).

Claiming this can be interpreted less nefarious and is up to whatever your point of view is, is simply burying your head in the sand.

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jiminthenorth t1_j2du4mf wrote

I went to his house in Nicosia, having no idea who he was at the time.

"There's a lot of wolf-based iconography about" I said at the time.

I felt rather silly when I found out who's house I'd been in.

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GreatMidnight t1_j2dv4uf wrote

Was it on airbnb? How did you end up there?

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jiminthenorth t1_j2e0k79 wrote

No, it's a museum these days. Was doing some touristing. The restaurant in the Buyuk Han, not too far away, is excellent, I might add.

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marcusyami t1_j2d4poe wrote

Could someone explain who he was? Sounds important?

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lmsoa971 t1_j2d5q6h wrote

The grey wolves is a Turkish ultranationalist group, much like Nazis, but unlike them, they follow Turanism (instead of naziism), or the belief of a superior Turkish race, the union of all Turkish states and reinstating the Ottoman Empire.

And you can imagine why a lot of people from the region don’t like him.

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IncelSuicideRateLOL t1_j2f7hr1 wrote

Everyone thinks they are just so fucking special and have to be the "chosen one"

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flukshun t1_j2fiwfj wrote

I wonder what the world would be like if these sorts of groups didn't keep popping up to ruin all hopes for peace and progress

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lmsoa971 t1_j2d6n13 wrote

And to add, unlike Nazis, Turanists are not necessarily shunned, with a big portion of Turkey voting the ultranationalist party, and even the Turkish president throwing the grey wolf sign (basically a “Heil Hitler” sign but for Grey wolves), and regularly meeting with the current party leaders.

It was only 2 years ago that Grey wolves was just banned in France after they did an racist protest screaming slurs at Armenians inside of the Armenian quarter in Paris..

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ZrvaDetector t1_j2e1y4b wrote

Because Grey wolves are a relatively new organisation that was backed up by NATO/GLADIO against Communist groups during Cold War. They also didn't invade Europe and put millions of people in ovens. Not really the same thing.

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lmsoa971 t1_j2e6tqz wrote

Grey wolves group has beheaded Kurds, Syrians and Armenians, you can find the pictures of them holding the grey wolves sign with the heads.

The grey wolf Organization denies the existence, or better yet justifies the genocides against the Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians.

Currently there is a blockade endangering the lives of 120,000 people and you can see the Turks blockading the only road throwing grey wolf signs, the International Genocide institution has deemed this as a potential genocide.

The expansionist ideology is currently being enacted in Syria with Turkey invading them.

Your idea of “they still haven’t done anything to Europe” doesn’t change the fact that if not the organization, at least it’s predecessors have enacted Turkish fascism, and the leaders have on many occasions solidified their predecessors stances.

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ZrvaDetector t1_j2ed9t4 wrote

>Grey wolves group has beheaded Kurds, Syrians and Armenians, you can find the pictures of them holding the grey wolves sign with the heads.

At most you would see a nationalist soldier holding the head of a dead combatant while doing the sign. Still deplorable and a war crime because its mutilation however you make it sound like they actually killed innocent Kurds and Armenians with beheadings which is not the case.

>The grey wolf Organization denies the existence, or better yet justifies the genocides against the Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians.

Yet they don't actually a commit any genocides against them nor will they ever have such power. Again, they are assholes of the worst kind but if you compare them to nazis, you're basically whitewashing what nazis did.

>Currently there is a blockade endangering the lives of 120,000 people and you can see the Turks blockading the only road throwing grey wolf signs, the International Genocide institution has deemed this as a potential genocide.

No, it's not a genocide in any case. They are free to leave Karabakh if they want. They only started this blockade after civillian researchers were denied entry by Russian soldiers.

>The expansionist ideology is currently being enacted in Syria with Turkey invading them.

Turkish "invasion" is not permanent and is preferrable to YPG holding the land along the Turkish border. A buffer zone is a natural reaction to Syrian Civil War and its impacts on Turkey. Nothing to do with Grey Wolves.

>Your idea of “they still haven’t done anything to Europe” doesn’t change the fact that if not the organization, at least it’s predecessors have enacted Turkish fascism, and the leaders have on many occasions solidified their predecessors stances.

Not just Europe, they didn't start a war, invade anyone or killed masses of people.

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GoFrostYourSelflel t1_j2ekf1g wrote

Should I link the Videos of countless civilians being beheaded and the Dog shit symbols they throw up and tout about ? Please stop trying to refute facts with nonsense. Signed, Morut Kunem

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ZrvaDetector t1_j2eng2r wrote

By all means do it, you won't find Turkish soldiers and actual Grey Wolf members doing this. If you're talking about Azerbaijani soldiers, then I don't think they are even members of the organisation and are an isolated case. Please link the videos of "countless" civillians being beheaded by the Grey Wolves.

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ktappe t1_j2f0nof wrote

>they didn't start a war, invade anyone or killed masses of people

They would if they could. It's not wrong to call fascists fascists just because they're not in power.

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xantiema t1_j2ekr88 wrote

Somehow you have managed to conflate multitudinous, and separate issues into one clusterfuck recipe. Oh, and you added Nazi's as a topping.

Nazism is fascism enacted at its worst, and to downplay their atrocities is a disgrace to history. Grey Wolves can be considered terrorists, but that is also just about it. The criminal and brainwashed Grey Wolves members use the ethnic sign, but that does not make every turk using it a terrorist.

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JuveFanatic t1_j2f2ibe wrote

You’re delusional, it’s best you leave this community at once.

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longmitso t1_j2f3fyb wrote

Lol just because they didn't invade Europe and put people in ovens doesn't make them the same thing? Not every Nazi was personally present at the ovens to put people inside, as I'm sure Hitler himself wasn't, but his voice put them there. Grey Wolves are exactly the same thing.

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Bagaturgg t1_j2fnvn9 wrote

Gladio organizations such as Grey Wolves popped in virtually all NATO countries under threat of Soviet influence during the Cold War, not just Turkey.

However it was Turkey's decision not to disband them once the Cold War ended and use them against the Kurdish insurgency. Grey Wolves haven't been under NATO/CIA influence for more than 30 years now. It has become its own thing and rebranded itself as the youth wing of MHP (ultranationalists) to legitimize its existence. Claiming NATO has anything to do with Grey Wolves as it exists today is completely baseless.

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ZrvaDetector t1_j2fqryg wrote

Nope, NATO has nothing to do with Grey Wolves of today, the thing is shortly after the Cold War they stopped being a militant organisation. Grey Wolves without NATO backing is just another far right political organisation without any hardpower behind it.

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uncleofsquanchy t1_j2elv6r wrote

>unlike Nazis, Turanists are not necessarily shunned, with a big portion of Turkey voting the ultranationalist party

Yes, as everybody knows Europeans never really vote for ultranationalist right wingers.

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uncleofsquanchy t1_j2ehb89 wrote

>with a big portion of Turkey voting the ultranationalist party,

If you are refering to MHP they are more of a islamist than ultranationalist, show me another ultranationalist party that supports open door policy when it comes to migrants.

>It was only 2 years ago that Grey wolves was just banned in France after they did an racist protest screaming slurs at Armenians inside of the Armenian quarter in Paris

If France was trying to deal with PKK supporters screaming slurs to Turks in Paris with the same effectiveness maybe they wouldn't have had to deal with all those Pro-PKK riots last week

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BlackPaperEDO t1_j2d8nar wrote

I mean... "Grey Wolf" sign is not like "Heil Hitler" sign. It has mythological meaning for Turkic people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_wolf_(mythology), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asena

Westeren people thinks that every person who make this sign is fascist or member of "Grey Wolf" but no, it is not simple like that. Just because some weird people use this sign, it doesn't mean that i will remove that thing from my culture/history/mythology.

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lmsoa971 t1_j2de3n3 wrote

Some westerners also believe that Hitler sign is not necessarily a fascist sign either !

It comes from the Roman salute, so doing it doesn’t mean you are a fascist which has history and culture of thousands of year.

By your logic every Italian should be allowed to do it… unless you agree that time changes culture, and anyone who has a right mind understands that it’s no longer the Roman salute.

But it all comes down to how aware you are of the present culture and of your surroundings.

I mean where was the Turkish backlash when Turks were taking pictures of beheaded Kurds and Syrians throwing the grey wolves sign? Where is the backlash now when they are throwing grey wolf signs for a “environmental protest” that is blockading 120,000 people?

Why is the leader of the Turkish fascist party throwing the sign off the Turks don’t want to associate themselves with it?

Whether you want to accept it or not, the grey wolf sign has been synonymous with Turkish fascism. And it only seems like Turks don’t understand it, it’s like those Americans who put up the confederate flag and scream “it’s not racist it’s my history”.

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jaquaries t1_j2f9r3x wrote

Why would I give up my own culture over 2000 years just beacuse some dumb fucks use it? Its a holy symbol in Turkish culture and turkish myths. These organisations are temporary but our collective culture will live as long as a single Turk lives on this earth.

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TheDoctor364 t1_j2fit2g wrote

Same reason people dont do the victory salute nowadays.

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Straightwad t1_j2fjbcf wrote

Because white westerners destroyed their culture so they expect everyone else to too

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[deleted] t1_j2d8o38 wrote

[deleted]

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TheHunterZolomon t1_j2db98i wrote

So it’s like the legend of the founders of Rome but furry

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lmsoa971 t1_j2de7nm wrote

Basically, and like the Roman salute, they are both now synonymous with their respective fascism..

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Sulo1719 t1_j2d7p0q wrote

>big portion of Turkey voting the ultranationalist party

i wouldnt say 8% is a big portion.

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PM_NUDES_4_DOG_PICS t1_j2dalc1 wrote

That's almost 1 in 10 people. That's a pretty significant chunk of the population my dude.

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Sulo1719 t1_j2dhdw4 wrote

grey wolves are part of the mhp(nationalistic party) even then not every mhp voter supports them. my grandmother voted for them because they improved living condonditions of retired people at some point. she is not even a nationalist person. so i was being generous when i commented that number.

>And to add, unlike Nazis, Turanists are not necessarily shunned

also i would like to add that unlike nazis grey wolfes' actions are supported and funded by the west (especially by u.s) during cold war because they were the main opposition against the growing leftist movements in turkey. they assassinated many leftist leaders of different movements and escaped to usa when they were prosecuted. and guess what? they were never forced return by the governtments of the usa at the time.

you guys are part of the problem too but anyways, keep downvoting me and circle jerk "turkey bad, they support nazis"

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VavoTK t1_j2dgkbc wrote

That's like 6.8 million people. It's a pretty big portion.

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jyper t1_j2fmcrw wrote

Nazis are mostly shunned in Germany although AfD party has far right views and gets a significant number of votes(but is shunned by other parties). But in Austria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Party_of_Austria which was started by former SS officers has been a part of a number of a number of coalition governments.

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WikiSummarizerBot t1_j2fmejb wrote

Freedom Party of Austria

>The Freedom Party of Austria (German: Freiheitliche Partei Österreichs, FPÖ) is a right-wing populist and national-conservative political party in Austria. It was led by Norbert Hofer from September 2019 to 1 June 2021. It is the third largest of five parties in the National Council, with 30 of the 183 seats, and won 16. 2% of votes cast in the 2019 legislative election.

^([ )^(F.A.Q)^( | )^(Opt Out)^( | )^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)^( | )^(GitHub)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)

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uncleofsquanchy t1_j2egpv0 wrote

That sign is not a grey wolves sign, it has been a sign for nationalists for a long time, grey wolves just happen to be using it doesn't belong to them.

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Straightwad t1_j2fj6tw wrote

I mean it tells you who he was at the beginning of the article that OP posted

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uncleofsquanchy t1_j2ehykm wrote

To add some context he was probably killed by Grey Wolves for quitting his position after MHP and Grey wolves became closer to Erdogan after 2016, he had meetings just few days ago with opposition parties which probably pissed of some members of his former party.

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Less-Statistician935 t1_j2d2dun wrote

Wolfie barked too loud, but cannot bite back. Enjoy your trip in the Tartarus.

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dghah t1_j2eitfq wrote

Wonderful news

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SerFraust t1_j2e8g1i wrote

Happy New Year!!!!!

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loledpanda t1_j2f9u3t wrote

What is a chapter of the space marines doing in Turkey?

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FitPast1362 t1_j2ct8bt wrote

That's just great they just made deer control alittle harder....

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sneakyvictor t1_j2f836a wrote

He f*cked around, so he found out.

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Magical-Manboob t1_j2fncsh wrote

Who are grey wolves? This good or bad. Not to say anyone dying is good but some people are just fucked.

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[deleted] t1_j2djnpu wrote

[removed]

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Agingbull1234 t1_j2dkfp7 wrote

Lmao Turk mad their master got blasted in his head. You love to see it

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