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lifeunderwater t1_j21epdg wrote

Reply to comment by [deleted] in Japan to require COVID-19 tests for all visitors from China by EternalPinkMist

Do you remember when the majority of Reddit users lived in countries where vaccine efficacy and distribution were handled well? How about when India was able to properly vaccinate their people with mRNA vaccines? Do you also remember that China refused to admit their vaccines were trash while simultaneously refusing to accept mRNA vaccines from the west even when offered and then stupidly lifted all restrictions after brainwashing their population into fearing the virus because of their own horrible policies, hubris and overall retardation?

Cause I do.

And now they want to infect the world again with variants that have thrived due to this stupidity?

Yeah, fuck right off please.

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jussulent_tummy t1_j24k7mj wrote

We don't have mRNA vaccines in India. We got Astrazeneca's viral vector vaccine.

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lifeunderwater t1_j27a2h1 wrote

Thanks for the clarification, but the point stands that India accepted outside help and was able to get their population vaccinated with a much better vaccine than China. India also had its own homegrown mRNA vaccine now ahead of China so there’s that.

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Stussygiest t1_j21jiec wrote

Isn't sinovac 90% efficacy with 3 doses? Didn't Pfizer get exposed for saying they didn't test whether it prevented transmission? When Europe commission demanded Pfizer to release sales communication/contracts, they blanked out 100+ pages.

Didn't UK and other countries stopped giving free test so we really do not know the real figures of who is infected at what rate?

Cause I do.

Not saying Chinese vaccine is legit. But maybe big corps west/east is doing some dodgy shit.

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adeveloper2 t1_j21ypvu wrote

>Isn't sinovac 90% efficacy with 3 doses?

The prevailing propaganda here is that Chinese vaccines are useless and it's repeated over and over by people until everyone believes it. With that said, I am not sure about 90% but many studies reported it's still quite effective against severe symptoms compared to unvaccinated.

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TheCharon77 t1_j221fh7 wrote

I think it's complicated. 90% efficacy against with strains, for how long?

And isn't the whole point of vaccines preventing people from developing severe symptomps and dying?

The whole point is to not stress the medical institutions. There still will be people that has been fully vaccinated, got covid, and get treated in the hospital, but ideally there should be a few of them, unlike what happened in China with patients sleeping on the floor in the ward because of overcrowding.

Covid is an ongoing topic, so we shouldn't see any claims as permanently correct. No one can predict what's the next dominant strain will be, and whether the current vaccine is able to protect against them.

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lifeunderwater t1_j27fn4q wrote

Sinovac is basically useless against Omicron on its own https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2022/02/03/sinovac-vaccine-efficacy-against-omicron-increases-following-mrna-booster-yale-study-finds/

> none of the patients in the study produced neutralizing antibodies against the Omicron variant

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adeveloper2 t1_j27vz9u wrote

>Sinovac is basically useless against Omicron on its own https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2022/02/03/sinovac-vaccine-efficacy-against-omicron-increases-following-mrna-booster-yale-study-finds/
>
>none of the patients in the study produced neutralizing antibodies against the Omicron variant

A few problems here. First, this study was done a very long time ago with much of the data collected before Omicron really hit the world. Second, antibody count are not necessarily reliable measurements of vaccine effectiveness w.r.t. infection. Third, there are later literature that indicate Sinovac still offers considerable protect, e.g.: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(22)00275-9/fulltext

What's undeniable is that mRNA vaccines are more effective than non-mRNA vaccines. However, it would be misinformation to say it's useless and some subs actually have rules against this especially on topic related to medicine.

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lifeunderwater t1_j282pwt wrote

> before Omicron really hit the world

What does that have to do with anything? The vaccine has poor efficacy against the variant. The data proves this. How much the variant had spread at the time the study was conducted is completely irrelevant unless the control group was too small or the study was flawed somehow.

> Sinovac still offers considerable protect

Define “considerable”? In a population so large, you will want highly effective vaccines because more room for failure will result in larger numbers of people becoming severely infected leading to the hospital system falling over much faster.

Nothing China has done has been sensible or smart. Everything they have done, since the beginning of the pandemic which they fucking started, has been either inept, self centred or down right malicious.

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adeveloper2 t1_j283ina wrote

>What does that have to do with anything? The vaccine has poor efficacy against the variant. The data proves this. There could be a single person infected with a variant and such a study would still be conclusive because you are just testing A vs B.

It matters because the study only measures one dimension of vaccine-related data and not others. If you even bother to read the last paragraph of the Yale article, it reads

Although the lab suggests an association between vaccine efficacy against specific variants, in the real world we are identifying that the clinical-epidemiological behavior does not correlate 100% with what is observed in-vitro.

This is essentially an in vitro vs in vivo problem which is a well-known factor to consider in science when extrapolating results of studies to actual outcome in the real world.

It's not something I expect an average person would understand of course. They'd just cherrypick a few sentences or get a summary from a similarly misinformed acquaintance and then move on from there.

> Define “considerable”?

You can look up the actual numbers in the Lancet study. It's documented right there if you bothered to read.

> Nothing China has done has been sensible or smart. Everything they have done, since the beginning of the pandemic which they fucking started, has been either inept, self centred or down right malicious.

I think this basically describes your position on all this. Everything China does is wrong or bad and you are really shopping for facts that support this stance. In that case, nothing I say can sway you because you already made up your mind.

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lifeunderwater t1_j28fdro wrote

That is simply an ass saving statement to state that “although there is data, we are not saying this is 100% true all the time”.

HKU also did a study providing similar outcomes https://www.hku.hk/press/press-releases/detail/23740.html

> Everything China does is wrong

I mean, even from a completely neutral point of view, it’s pretty hard to not see this as absolute truth when related to this pandemic.

What have they done right? Let’s list all the things they’ve done wrong and see if you can match them with positives

  • Allowed pandemic to happen either through poor health standards or a lab accident
  • Ignored then silenced / punished the original doctor reporting the outbreak
  • Freely allowed infected people to leave the country, rallied against countries that wanted to impose travel bans
  • Had companies and individuals buy up massive amounts of PPE in other countries, crippling local stockpiles
  • Used economic warfare against those who spoke out against their behaviour
  • Used the pandemic as a backdrop for a hostile takeover of HK, entering a state of non compliance with the Joint Declaration Treaty
  • Refused to accept western offerings of mRNA vaccines which are factually superior due to this conflicting with the lie that Chinese science and technology is at an equivalent level to that of America
  • Continued with ineffective, dystopian, wide scale snap lockdowns resulting in deaths
  • Lifted all restrictions abruptly with no warning or preparation, almost seeming to be done out of spite towards the people who dared to protest against Xi and his policies

It goes on and on. There are so many, I don’t have time to list them all. China should be harshly dealt with through the insourcing of manufacturing and crippling sanctions to force regime change. There is no hope for peaceful coexistence with the CCP / China under Xi.

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