Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

domestication_never t1_j1k6p2v wrote

Heat pumps, solar panels, and enough of your own roof space to install them is going to be very popular.

8

urriola35 t1_j1kep01 wrote

Yeah because a winter storm is a great source for solar panels.

26

Drackar39 t1_j1khj9l wrote

See, the fun thing about solar off-set plans is, you generate more energy when you have sunny days, and that off-sets the cost of energy grid use when you're in a storm, at night, etc...

27

domestication_never t1_j1kicow wrote

Or just run the HP flat out in the day up to 23c and let it cool overnight. Most nights I don't use it, I use an electric blanky

10

Drackar39 t1_j1kll6x wrote

Yup, banking your energy when you can is also a valid strat.

0

urriola35 t1_j1kied9 wrote

I haven’t had sunlight for a month lol

5

Drackar39 t1_j1kljiu wrote

It's a ...year round... Ok no just don't get solar if you're that dumb dude.

8

fallte1337 t1_j1lexau wrote

And where is that power that you are “setting off” being stored? Your hopes and dreams?

−1

Drackar39 t1_j1lgfij wrote

So, how this generally works is, your net generation is recorded, for the year, and any surplus, for the year, is logged with your power company.

Then, when you use more than you produce, it is off-set by higher production time periods.

Your solar running a bunch of air conditioners in the summer pays your power bill running heat in the winter.

4

fallte1337 t1_j1p7ed9 wrote

I know how it works but the fact you are generating power in summer when there is not that much demand and plenty of power doesn’t help in winter does it? It helps your bills, sure but if there is not enough power there will be blackouts and your solar is not going to help.

1

Drackar39 t1_j1r5kv0 wrote

The primary issue isn't lack of sufficient power plants, it's cost of fuel to run those power plants (alongside rank profiteering by literal criminal scumbags, but that's another topic).

Any fuel that isn't used "in the summer" is still available "In the winter".

1

fantomas_ t1_j1lpie7 wrote

It's called the national grid you absolute sausage.

3

fallte1337 t1_j1p72hr wrote

So let me get this straight. You are setting off power by sending it to the grid. That power is absolutely minuscule but the government is paying you some money to make you feel better about your bad investment. Then, when you actually need power - at night in winter, when your solar panels are absolutely useless, you are relying on the grid like everyone else. The question, you moron, is - what happens when there is not enough power at peak demand? How are your solar panels helping then? You see, I’ve done the math whether I can make my country house off grid by installing solar panels. The answer is - no. Between the cost of the panels and the batteries required the cost is way more than I will ever save within the life of the panels and the batteries. It’s still cheaper to receive power from the grid - who would have guessed? So the answer to all power problems is not “solar”, idiot. The only reason small scale solar kind of works is because the government is paying you out of everyone else’s pocket to do not very much.

1

fantomas_ t1_j1pcup4 wrote

This reply is peppered with insults. Much like the pepper in a Cumberland sausage. But you'd know all about that wouldn't you? Ya sausage.

1

Bater_cat t1_j1lgqm7 wrote

Proper insulation would be much better solution.

19

kirky1148 t1_j1kx2ve wrote

I hope so, I do alot of work in building decarbonisation. These options won't generally help things like the hard to treat houses or the serious retrofit costs for alot of stock. Essentially where they need serious insulation and ventilation upgrades to bring up to standard which can cost alot more than the heat pump and dispersion installation costs.

And for hard to treat builds like solid stone etc then higher flow temperatures than most heat pumps deliver so often alternatives are needed or heat pumps not in the cost range that are viable for domestic homes. The solar PV isn't great in Winter when we tend to need the energy more for things like lighting and heating (in some places). Smart, local level energy systems with local generation and storage are really needed to overcome things like grid constraints which are a risk to both heat and ev electrification . Any way happy Christmas !

4

[deleted] t1_j1kgb5g wrote

Heat pumps don’t generate enough heat to be suitable for anything but new build properties - they need underfloor heating to allow a low heat level over a larger area to achieve a comfortable temperature - they are not a feasible replacement for gas in existing properties.

−4

domestication_never t1_j1khbh6 wrote

I have one on a 1950 wood house that just survived a winter storm, keeping it toasty 20c inside

10

[deleted] t1_j1kit7g wrote

Good for you. Most older U.K. houses are one brick thick (zero cavity) houses which are by their nature thermally dense. Thermally dense houses work by having the heating first heat the fabric of the house which then retains the warmth and radiates it back into the living space. It’s exactly the same principle as early man building structures from large rocks and having large fire pits within them - they didn’t choose large stones for shits and giggles. Heat exchangers don’t generate enough heat to heat the fabric of thermally dense buildings, nor are traditionally built U.K. houses readily suitable for additional insulation - you’re taking dry lining with insulated plasterboard to achieve ‘meh’ level benefits

−4

domestication_never t1_j1kl3xk wrote

Plenty of brick houses here have heat pumps. This 1950s house is matchsticks and cardboard. It's got the insulative properties of wet shorts in a stiff winter breeze straight to the testies.

It has "aux heat" a very powerful resitive heater it'll use from time to time. Usually for about 10-20 mins a day. That costs significant money. The rest of the time it cost as much as an aircon to run. Which, coincidentally it also is for summer time.

5

Drackar39 t1_j1kho6v wrote

If your structure is completely uninsulated, and it's several degrees bellow freezing, sure, you won't be super warm.

But it's the most energy efficient option, even if it's not the only heat source. It's a viable way to drastically lower energy use from other means.

5

[deleted] t1_j1kj3if wrote

And that’s current renewables summed up in one post - it’s an extra over = it isn’t enough by itself

Edit to add: it also sums up renewables in the U.K. as a whole. We’ve invested massively in wind power capacity, but the reliability of its output is distinctly meh. Many days it’s tootling along at a few percentage of it’s claimed capacity. But I doubt you, me, or aunty Jan care about that when we want to boil the kettle - we want power and we want it now. The grid recognises that so it keeps gas plants online, however, they’re not permitted to operate efficiently and generating the most efficient amount of power they can for the grid, nope, they’re kept tootling along as back up to the green wind energy ready to pick up the slack when the massive supposed capacity of wind generation invariably comes in at a few percent of claimed capacity. Gas plants operating below capactiy are inefficient and therefor expensive - so it’s uncanny that the cost to consumer of electricity across the board, regardless of where it was derived, is based on the cost of electricity generated by gas….

−3

Drackar39 t1_j1kldu0 wrote

I mean sure, energy efficient devices are designed to work with energy efficient homes.

If you don't want to bother "making your house suck less" just throw a unit aimed at a larger structure at your home.

4

[deleted] t1_j1kmwh6 wrote

It won’t work - ground source heat pumps are subject to the amount of land available and over an extended time period are subject to a diminishing rate of return. As for air sourced… I used to be a facilities manager for a national retailer and the number of noise complaints we’d receive in respect of AC and refrigeration plant would make your eyes water. What do you think the reaction would be to thousands of air sourced heat pumps being installed in a neighbourhood?

2

[deleted] t1_j1kdy4o wrote

Heat pumps are trash.

−13

rsta223 t1_j1keh7p wrote

Heat pumps are the best primary heating device for a modern home.

Is there a reason you don't like energy efficiency?

11

[deleted] t1_j1kke82 wrote

Really depends on your climate. The curve changes drastically. You can barely get parts for heat pumps just a few years old. I live in New England and it’s just not the way to go. Plus good luck finding an A/C tech out here. Most guys just know oil/propane.

−3

rsta223 t1_j1km3l2 wrote

>Really depends on your climate.

Nah, all that determines is whether you need a fallback gas system or not. Even in cold climates, heat pumps can take up a significant chunk of the load on warmer winter days and in the shoulder season.

> The curve changes drastically.

Yes, which is why modern systems can choose whether to run the heat pump or the backup heat based on whichever would be more efficient based on current conditions.

>You can barely get parts for heat pumps just a few years old.

That's not a technological issue. In terms of parts and complexity, heat pumps are literally just air conditioners with a reversing valve, so they're not inherently any more expensive or difficult to fix than an A/C

>I live in New England and it’s just not the way to go. Plus good luck finding an A/C tech out here. Most guys just know oil/propane.

That just means that techs need to keep up with the times.

Similarly, if an area has a bunch of coal plant techs and no wind turbine techs, that's not an argument that the next power plant they build should be coal, it's an argument that they should start to train up some wind turbine techs.

5

domestication_never t1_j1km6nq wrote

Well those guys gonna go out of business becuase heat pumps are selling like crazy in the PNW.

I replaced a 1970s ThermoPride oil furnace I called "ol' smokey" for its habit of occasionally fucking up and spewing smoke right when you needed it most. Oil cost me 600 a year back then, it'd cost 1500 a year now. The heat pump was 10k and costs about 400 a year in electricty. Plus it's a aircon. Costco deal, with 10pct cash back. Have had zero problems getting it serviced. There is fuck-all to service on it.

The only issue is that it's loud. Not as loud as ol' smokey, but very loud for a 2019 appliance.

3