Submitted by imrussellcrowe t3_yymwth in worldnews
There are already a few nations, such as the Kiribati, Marshall Islands, etc that are planning total evacuations of everyone to either Australia, New Zealand or the US, due to these places being fully under water in the future. For Marshall Islands, it's a bit easier due to the Compact Free Association with the US (basically allows free movement + the ability to use some gov services).
Sorry for the tangent: the whole situation is sad and complex in the way it will need to be taken care of.
Wouldn't it be better if they just became automatic US Citizens. Its 60K people. Don't think it would matter much in USA with that number relocating here.
IIRC there is a special fast track system specifically for people part of Compact Free Association islands. Though yes, just giving them citizenship would be better. Fun fact, there is already a large Marshallese population in Arkansas.
Oh wow, had no idea about that. Yea, definitely got enough space for them considering how big USA is. I just googled it and its 3 countries: the Republic of the Marshall Islands, Federated States of Micronesia (FSM), andRepublic of Palau.
Marshall is 60K pop, Micronesia is 116k and Palau18k. Pretty sure, USA takes in more refuges than that population combined each year.
The US took in more refugees than that from Cuba alone in the last year.
There are a lot more non-atoll islands in Micronesia, there’d obviously be some on atolls who would need to evacuate but not the majority for sure
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>level 2RubberPny · 6 hr. agoThere are already a few nations, such as the Kiribati, Marshall Islands, etc that are planning total evacuations of everyone to either Australia, New Zealand or the US, due to these places being fully under water in the future. For Marshall Islands, it's a bit easier due to the Compact Free Association with the US (basically allows free movement + the ability to use some gov services).Sorry for the tangent: the whole situation is sad and complex in the way it will need to be taken care of.
Let me put this in US Media speak:
A HORDE of unchecked IMMIGRANTS who might be CRIMINALS AND RAPISTS are RAVAGING OUR SHORES
These immigrants speak English. Americans are much much more accepting of immigrants who speak English and are preferably Christian.
Some of the scant handful of ukrainians that have been allowed to temporarily live in the United States have been treated like absolute f****** dog s***
Proof? That's bullshit
why though
… seriously you don’t understand that post?
override367 was saying that all this mass migration caused by climate change is going to be managed by right wing public entities in predictable ways; they will be exploited as “other” to distract from problems at home, and minimised to reduce their rights in the eyes of people in safer locations.
That’s “why though”.
They aren’t supporting that stance.
Yeah I'm a little disappointed no one got the sarcasm. :( Poor Override
We got the sarcasm, we just thought it was cheesy and tiring.
about 1100km from the pacific lol
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No offense but I think they'd much prefer to move to NZ or Australia
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The original comment was made around 12 minutes before this one
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If c02 output dropped to 0 today then the islands would still flood.
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Yes am- but your claim was that they are being flooded because polluters won’t lower their output. I’m only pointing out that if output went to 0 today then enough damage has been done already and these islands are already lost.
You are being overly pedantic, as Redditor's do so love to do, and missing the broader point. So go back and say because emissions weren't lowered 20 years ago when we knew this was a problem, or emissions weren't lowered 40 years ago when experts in the Energy industry and research scientists knew this was a problem.
Being technically correct doesn't always make you right.
I am both technically and factually correct and it is, unfortunately, you who has missed the broader point by mentioning an irrelevant one.
Yes if we had a Time Machine and political will we could have fixed it 40 years ago. We don’t.
I simply and clearly stated completely eliminating emissions would do nothing for Tuvalu now, it’s too late.
Yes yes you win the debate great pedant lord.
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Yes. Polluters needed to lower CO2 output decades ago. Islands will flood unless the govts find some incredible solution to lowering temps. E.g. simulating volcano eruptions worldwide to block 10% of sunlight. Which would then lead to reduced crop production and starvation. It's a fucking grim future for our children.
Thanks Nostradumbass.
Oh you’re right! Why bother doing anything?
I mean, we polluted massively for ages when being told it would cause intense problems whilst denying climate change, and now we’ll accept climate change is a thing when we can just say “changing won’t wake a difference”.
I guess the step after that is to somehow blame those who tried to warn us, say they weren’t doing enough and it’s their fault we have this problem? Whilst continuing to pollute?
And after that we can move to cheaper and more profitable renewables anyway with the money made from wrecking the planet and claim we were part of the solution all along?
I like your plan. I mean, it’s 100% asshole, but well done.
I did not state any plan for the future. I only commented that it was too late to help Tuvalu. Work on your reading comprehension dumbass .
My point is, your comment was completely useless.
It implies we shouldn’t bother, the damage was already done. Well done on comprehending your own comments there, and being part of the problem.
My comment does not imply anything. It directly states that Tuvalu is gone no matter what. Any implication you are deriving is a result of poor inference and reading comprehension skills on your part.
There's a greater context to this conversation, but if you prefer to have a shallow conversation I guess that's up to you
And i understand that and have had many before and would’ve had one now except for the tiny little thing where you immediately popped off and insulted me with assumptions for a point I was never arguing.
Obviously emissions need to be cut, yesterday, but you didn’t try to discuss that and instead chose to aggressively comment with false assumptions. Something to think about for the next time.
Cheers.
I'm just sick of all the apathy, which your comment really read as. Glad that's not how you feel about it.
I believe they meant logistically complicated.
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Livestock produces more CO2 than vehicle activity.
Do you have a source for that? Our World in Data shows that transportation is responsible for 16.2% of global greenhouse gas emissions, while livestock is just 5.8%
I think these are represenated so differently in different sources because they are contingent on how you calculate emissions - for example how much of transportation is related to getting animals from farm to plate? what about supporting infrastructure sure as abbatoirs, tractors, roads ECT? Should you add those? Some would and some wouldn't depending on their standards or how they wanted represent the data.
Also the OP posted cars which are actually not a large part of transportation - trucks, trains, planes and ships emit a fair percentage of transportation related emissions
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Kiribati spent almost 10 million dollars on a bunch of land in Fiji, reportedly with the aim of moving all of their citizens there. To me it seems like a political stunt and unlikely to ever develop into anything, but it's sad nevertheless that's it's even a possibility. Now they are just using the land for food production, but who knows.
As an Australian, I can't see us offering citizenship or a mass migration of people without something in return like fishing rights. Maybe we would for a lucky few, but the masses would need to give up their sovereignty and land most likely. Just guessing though.
The deal with Fiji on Vanua Levu is still pretty likely to happen- when I was in Savusavu in 2014 Tuvalu and Kiribati already had small immigrant communities and citizen representatives there, I met them at the local fair at their tents. Cool people, but the struggle at the time was that Vanua Levu’s infrastructure needed a lot of work (in progress when I left), getting people over was another issue and there are only a couple big towns on the island (Savusavu and Labasa), so it was planned that by the 2020s and 2030s this would be more actively pursued.
This is incredibly sad especially since these small island nations have little to do with the problems that created this
The west want to wash their guilt away by giving these nations a few million dollars and wiping their hands of the matter. It is atrocious.
Exactly and it’s essentially throwing money at something and ‘hoping’ it gets better or miraculously goes away
Fiji and other mountainous Pacific islands have also been courted as candidates. Kiribati iirc has an agreement with them. Unless it’s warming as opposed to just sea level rise.
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In middle school we did a class project in middle school where I was Tuvalu.
To be resigned to eventual existence as only three digital concepts — the Wikipedia page; the archive they are creating, to say, we were here, and the .tv domain.
And the residual memories of the few dwindling surviving inhabitants, who may try to impress themselves and their history on generations for whom the name is a disassociated mention in history and a fading Wikipedia site.
Oh, yes. Grim.
VR will be a great mechanism for archival purposes
I can't remember but I watched a documentary few years ago that its either Kiribati or Tuvalu that will be the first country to be underwater.
Yep. Also the best metaphor (well actually it's not just a metaphor, it's an example) of our times that I can think of.
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yeah have been to Tuvalu.. it's an atoll a mile wide at the thickest part, but most is maybe 20-100m wide. Met and hung out with some locals there, when I said I lived 300kms from the ocean he could barely believe me.
They would be equally shocked if you say you never seen the ocean your entire life lol
I mean, saying that while being surrounded by ocean would be fairly shocking.
What if you are blind?
I live in Alberta, about 1100km from the pacific lol
But you have snow it’s like a frozen ocean
That dude’s metaverse is going to be just ground with no water anywhere and he’ll love it
From the article:
>Tuvalu will be the first country to replicate itself in the metaverse but follows both the city of Seoul and the island nation of Barbados which last year said they would enter the metaverse to provide administrative and consular services, respectively.
Up to 40 per cent of the capital district is underwater at high tide, and the entire country is forecast to be underwater by the end of the century.
Kofe said he hoped that the creation of a digital nation would allow Tuvalu to continue to function as a state even if it becomes completely submerged.
This is important as the government begins efforts to ensure that Tuvalu continues to be recognised internationally as a state and its maritime boundaries - and the resources within those waters - are maintained even if the islands are submerged.
Kofe said that seven governments have agreed to continual recognition, but there were challenges if Tuvalu goes under as it is a new area of international law.
Choosing Metaverse to do this instead of something reliable like Unreal Engine is an especially bad call for preservation.
Also when they go completely under they should lose country status and become a company.
FYI, metaverses are a whole tech concept. It's corporate arrogance that led Zuckerberg to claim the word as his property. There are many metaverse applications.
TBF we don’t know if ANY of the existing metaverses will still be there when Tuvalu is fully gone in ~80 years… everyone might have their own private metaverses by then
>Choosing Metaverse to do this instead of something reliable like Unreal Engine is an especially bad call for preservation.
That's not necessarily what they are doing, they could be referring to the generic concept of "metaverse" and going in similar direction as Singapore Digital Twin which replicates the country as a digital entity.
>Also when they go completely under they should lose country status and become a company.
There is precedent for a county continuing without territory. The Sovereign Military Order of Malta is still around.
Also unlikely they lose every inch of land. Even if they have to go the Sealand route. The martine claims have value.
Doesn't work that way
It works whatever way the other countries decide it works
The sovereign order of the knights of malta is a real thing that exists.
They have diplomatic relations issue passports ect ect.
Sure, but they own zero territory
Yes that's the point.
The OP was talking about tuvalu still having maritime territory without land
The knights of malta don't control the coasts of malta
They only need to keep a token population in place to keep the maritime claim alive. A thing the knights could not do.
So long as someone lives there permanently it counts as an island. They don't need their 11k people in place.
Not if its completely submerged
Lose country status why? Because everyone else flooded their home? If the Knights Hospitaller can be a sovereign order without land then so can Tuvalu.
Imagine wanting to burn fossil fuel so much you cause this.
Tuvalu was always doomed to be under the ocean, climate change just sped it up
In middle school we did a class project in middle school where I was Tuvalu...I've been weirdly obsessed ever since
I'm sorry, when did you do this project?
in middle school and middle school they were Tuvalu. duh ...
What’s middle school?
Grades 7-9
How many years do you guys do in high school then?
In Canada at least, elementary school is 1-6 Jr high/middle school is 7-9 and high school is 10-12
In uk it’s infant school nursery-year 2 (age 4-7), primary school year 3-6, and high school year 7-11. A lot of place combine infant school and primary school into one though
That’s actually neat! I have heard UKs referring to high school as college in TV shows. What’s that about?
In the uk high school ends at 16, but in the us it’s 18 right? 17-18 is when we go to college usually
This is actually a very complicated question in the states and varies a lot just depending on where you are. Personally I did Kindergarten-6th in elementary, 7-8 in middle, and 9-12 in high school. The main differences are some places put 6 or 9 in middle school and then some places split 9-10 and 11-12 into 2 separate schools. Theres also other variations as you go, we still have places where there is just 1 school you go to from K-12
Are you planning to digitize yourself so you can exist forever
Once he becomes a being of pure energy, his "birth" will be signaled by every telephone on the planet ringing simultaneously.
No, I'm Tuvalu.
Was it like a mini UN kinda thing? We did the same. I was Kenya. Had to do a whole project on (limited) early 2000s internet about it.
Look at me. I'm Tuvalu now.
This is so depressing 😓
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Depression
Indubitably.
What
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For all the dipshits worrying about the glass that protects exhibits being covered with soup, here's some real destruction of culture.
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I'm reminded of Picard playing the Ressikan flute. Godspeed to Tuvalu.
I also thought about that episode when reading the article. God, I get choked up just thinking about it.
That's pretty fucking sad. If it was an economic engine we would protect it with expensive technology. As it stands humanity values unique cultures and ways of life less than money.
Well it’s hard to preserve a island that’s sinking with our technology
Tbf you could preserve the nation by building an artificial island. But that a lot of ressources for 11k people living in the middle of nowhere. Not to mention the co2 such project would create wich is ironique.
There are engineering solutions for holding back the water. Seawalls, levees, etc. It could be done if someone had the money and the will. You're right it would have a large climate footprint... but I think we generate carbon for much more mundane reasons every day without thought. It's just sad and I wish it bothered people more.
It's not that simple. You need to google the island and what it look like. I've never seen such work be done for such a tiny plot of land and it would be very much building an artificiel island on top of the current one.
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Yes theory on YouTube went there and made a short documentary about Tuvalu. I highly recommend it. It's a very nice place. A shame it won't last much longer.
That’s one of the most unique videos on YouTube. Period. Have watched it several times. He even finds a subscriber there. Like what the hell….
Right? I actually just watched it again a day or two before seeing this post about the island. I love everything that yes theory puts out but the Tuvalu video in particular is so peaceful to me.
How many years until it goes under?
They have a population of 11k. There's almost nothing they can do to survive as a nation.
Maybe Zuck can actually do something slightly helpful with one of his ideas for a change. I'd pay to visit an accurate VR Tuvalu.
But...but...but these pesky climate change protestors are so loud :( /s
An entire nation sinking beneath the waves gets little attention but throw a can of soup on a painting behind glass and reddit loses it's collective mind in outrage.
Yeah, what i was getting at 😄
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...and how exactly are those protesters helping this island?
You're almost self aware!
Damn that’s sad as hell it’s come to that.
It hasn’t.
This is a really cool idea, but please don't do it on the Metaverse! There has to be plenty of other companies that would be interested in something like this.
This reminds me of one of the best Star Trek TNG episodes, "The Inner Light", where a civilization on the brink of extinction digitizes its world and sends a space probe out to give whoever encounters it a lifetime of experience, so they can be remembered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inner_Light_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)
When are the islands going to be flooded?
By the end of the century.
125-500 years.
Whelp, the birth of virtual reality will hopefully help with the preservation
Ah yes, the ‘find out’ stage.
I'm not buying this NFT
This is a stupid question but is it that impossible to raise the island or expand the island just asking maybe a tuvalese answers me
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I wonder how they will integrate with different metaverses.
Can't wait for the British Museum to steal it
Wow this is some crazy sci-fi dystopian shit. Good luck to them.
Someday, hundreds of years from now, a starship captain is going to find this artifact and have a very strange experience.
Toodaloo Tuvalu?
So it would only exist in the metaverse?
Imagine being so screwed by climate change that your best way forward is to turn your land into an NFT
Minecraft
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 64%. (I'm a bot)
> Tuvalu said on Thursday that it plans to build a digital version of itself, replicating islands and landmarks and preserving its history and culture as rising sea levels threaten to submerge the tiny Pacific island nation.
> Tuvalu's Foreign Minister Simon Kofe told the COP27 climate summit earlier in the week that it was time to look at alternative solutions for his country's survival and this included Tuvalu becoming the first digitised nation in the metaverse - an online realm that uses augmented and virtual reality to help users interact.
> Tuvalu will be the first country to replicate itself in the metaverse but follows both the city of Seoul and the island nation of Barbados which last year said they would enter the metaverse to provide administrative and consular services, respectively.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Tuvalu^#1 island^#2 Kofe^#3 nation^#4 country^#5
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Wish more new outlets covered this instead of the inconsequential items like Taylor Swift concert ticket issues.
right on time with the decline of TV
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r/saddestthingiveheard
satellite and aerial lidar map that area and surrounding reefs. get sonar maps. launch a drone survey. if china can build islands, surely this can be figured out.
tragic thing is that this is a death of a people and culture, and we have all indirectly contributed to it.
If they digitize the people it would be like Ghost in the Shell 2nd gig. Kind of depressing.
This was the plot of Star Trek next gen double episode.
Maybe zuck should give them all a bunch of useless headsets and they can live in the metaverse as their island is destroyed.
The most tragic making lemonade out of lemons I’ve ever seen
Godamn, I think I got some lemon in my eye
Maybe there needs to be some lawsuits
They should sell the digital island to Zuckerberg
This getting like 3k upvotes when the stupid NATO carrier groups is evidence of why we are all screwed and why Reddit should go the way of Twitter
Credit to the theoretical (and sadly inevitable) physical dissolution of the Tuvalu land mass (not historical culture) is speculatively credited to the following corporate and private sponsors: Royal Dutch/ Shell Oil, Mobile Oil/ Exxon Corporation, BP (British Petroleum), Chevron Oil, Standard Oil, *alburton Industries, Saudi ARAMCO, The *ush Family, The *heney Family, The *ockefeller Family, Texas, GazProm, Venezuela, The Mexican Oil Cartel (The *alinas Family (not my buddy’s family, you know, the other one…), the *och Brothers (thankfully 1 died(R.I.P., if you can find it.) OPEC, The Crown of Brunei, Lawyers, and the first S.O.B. that thought a “gusher” was a good thing, metaphorically speaking.
So for the climate change deniers here, how is this going to fit into your conspiracy?
In 50 years they're gonna say Tuvalu, Maldives, Kiribati, etc never existed at all
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Hundreds of pacific islands are getting bigger, but only Tuvalu has rising sea levels. Why?
Such laughable b******* your country is not going nowhere you dumbasses
Most Pacific Islands are growing.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pacific+islands+growing&hps=1&atb=v248-1&ia=web
For now but if you continue reading the article, near the end the mention it's mainly due to the sediments being created by the coral reefs. And they go on to mention how 70-80% of coral reefs won't exist within the next 20 years so we might be seeing the opposite. Thanks for the article though, pretty interesting
Don't bring facts in here.
As bad as it is, I’m glad the water level in the world is rising instead of lowering. We would be in a lot more trouble if the earth was running out of water
>We would be in a lot more trouble if the earth was running out of water
Ah but we are... at least the water that matters. The effects of climate change are reducing fresh water supplies significantly and leading to greater pollution of surface water areas. Aquifers in particular are a problem as they are not being refilled at anything like the speed we are depleting them.
Oh good!
Is this Ken M
No? This is Reynolds G
Get rekt Tuvalu; should have thought of that when you decided to flood the earth with carbon emissions. Now you will reap the consequences of your own actions
Yes Tuvalu has only themselves to blame, remind me again what form their heavy polluting took on? Was it all those coal seams they mined in the volcanic rock the island sits upon? Or maybe their heavy reliance on the tourism industry? What are your thoughts on the energy requirements to store and host the digital version of the island? Still too much carbon? What if they use the proceeds of the virtual tourism to plant some trees? Can trees grow underwater?
ps. You're an idiot.
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yxxngwxlf t1_iwv1ckb wrote
Damn that's grim