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Odin52573 t1_iyd59q7 wrote

Reply to comment by Standard_Mammoth1682 in EU Commission proposes blocking billions in funds to Hungary by Bald-Eagle619

To be fair, it is the normal ordinary people who voted for them, unless you imply fraud and a dictatorship, for which the EU probably have some prevention process or oversight.

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Got_No_Situation t1_iyd8kmx wrote

> unless you imply fraud and a dictatorship

That is exactly what this is.

> for which the EU probably have some prevention process or oversight.

That's what I naively believed in 2011-2012 when this started. After 2014 it became clear that they do not, and we are on our own.

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Odin52573 t1_iyd9lm4 wrote

If this is true, then a foreign military intervention is needed or a civil war.

Unless Hungary, like every country is at least half full of the oppressive fascist types, where most people believe that voting 3rd party is throwing away your vote, so you get the classic 2 party system of interchanging power between 2 people for decades.

Which one is more likely?

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Got_No_Situation t1_iydbn36 wrote

The former (military intervention) is impossible short of WW3, since neither NATO nor the EU can wage war against itself.

The latter is just true, so obviously that's the more likely one. However, the reason this came to be is the central media control. The reason people vote based on an entirely false view of events (think One America News, except it's every channel) is due to the central media control.

That's the pillar holding all of their power, and the reason they were able to subvert everything while keeping up the pretense of fair elections. So that's where they can and should be attacked. Until then, they can mobilize their plurality voterbase against absolutely anything because they can literally control what a significant-enough portion of people believe. Think MAGA, except with near perfect linguistic isolation on their side.

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Odin52573 t1_iyde3f1 wrote

So then it is the normal peoples fault. Willful ignorance might not be the best defence for them, nor should it be.

Do you believe everything that they tell you?

Could it be that the other side also doesn't understand them, which is why it always comes down to exact opposites, instead of the more real, slightly different approaches to the same problem?

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Got_No_Situation t1_iydfyes wrote

> So then it is the normal peoples fault. Willful ignorance might not be the best defence for them, nor should it be.

I can agree with that in a detached, theoretical way where we are not looking for solutions but where to place blame. But since this method can and will work on other countries, and in fact is being deployed even in the most "blame-free" Western countries with some success already (UK, NL, USA), I don't think that really helps. Even if you're okay with just discarding the will of entire nations, we still need a solution to the mass manipulation problem.

> Could it be that the other side also doesn't understand them, which is why it always comes down to exact opposites, instead of the more real, slightly different approaches to the same problem?

I am not sure what you mean by this. There is no "other side". They won on the back of the failures of the previous government in 2010, and began altering election law and setting up centralized propaganda immediately.

There isn't really room for oppositional candidates of any sort to gain any kind of ground, so it's not like the ""left"" versus ""right"" dichotomy that still exists in the US.

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Hippos-in-Colombia t1_iyed0ma wrote

This right here IS the mechanism. They are witholding the funds for this very reason, hungary is backsliding on democracy.

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Odin52573 t1_iyedark wrote

Not exactly prevention, but is a good thing to do.

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