Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

Zucc_Boi_ t1_iue3lx9 wrote

Reply to comment by jisaacs1207 in Ukraine says Iran’s help for Russia should push Israel out of neutral stance by Lahampsink

I'm not aware of such instance. Can you provide an example?

If the resolution at hand was consistent with Ukraine's current policies or Ukraine's vote in favor was driven by any security or political needs, fine. But it is neither consistent with its policies, nor does it assist it in any way. The resolution was passed in the UNGA, not UNSC, making it symbolical; was sponsored by some of the most pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine nations; and finally is about denuclearization of a country Ukraine depends on for assistance, while Ukraine itself suffers greatly from its own forced denuclearization.

25

phrostbyt t1_iuf279z wrote

as a Ukrainian Jew the UNGA vote really boggles my mind. i really want some reporter to ask Zelensky why they decided to vote against

14

Zucc_Boi_ t1_iuf3tj9 wrote

Me too. I support Ukraine and will keep supporting it regardless but I think Zelensky personally has some deficiencies that may harm his otherwise noble cause.

8

jisaacs1207 t1_iuf7hn9 wrote

It’s important to note that you are an American citizen living in the USA. I’m unsure if you are a dual citizen somehow as that is illegal in Ukraine, but claiming to be a Ukrainian Jew is misleading if you are a voting American citizen.

1

phrostbyt t1_iufe54e wrote

OK Ukrainian-born jew if that makes you feel better?

4

jisaacs1207 t1_iufg5rc wrote

So you’re an American Jew with Ukrainian heritage questioning the motives of a foreign leader. That hits differently than being a Ukrainian Jew questioning the motives of your leader while living in Ukraine- that is all I am saying.

1

phrostbyt t1_iufgmdx wrote

I was born in Ukrainian SSR. I identity as a Ukrainian jew (I have other identities as well) I don't understand why you care anyway. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. Scanning people's accounts is just strange behavior

2

jisaacs1207 t1_iufjfnk wrote

Everyone can have an opinion on anything they want, some hold more weight than others based on their circumstances and backgrounds.

You misleading people to think you have more personal experience than you do, and trying to trigger empathy, then being upset about being called out isn’t uncommon behavior. It is the exact reason websites exist to quickly check people out, though.

It is also why post history exists on your profile.

2

phrostbyt t1_iufknkq wrote

No it's just weird. i didn't post to elicit empathy, i posted to question Zelensky's decisions. if i wanted to be some kind of propaganda bot, i would just make a new account. and i do have personal experience. i was born there, i've lived there, i've been back there many times since. i still have family there. you're just being an asshole

2

jisaacs1207 t1_iuflj8z wrote

Your right to an opinion doesn’t translate to a right to not have it put under fair scrutiny.

As someone who was bombed, and fled under gunfire in Kharkiv, excuse me for not taking what you say very seriously after being led to believe you were in similar circumstances.

3

phrostbyt t1_iuflq6p wrote

i never said i was living in Ukraine. you're not living there either. my family fled as refugees, so did yours. just different circumstances

2

jisaacs1207 t1_iuf7423 wrote

The best examples of openly defying the countries supporting them would be the ongoing strikes on Palestine.

I don’t want to involve that in the thread outside of saying that supporting nations are not enthused about everything going on, and are open about it.

Still:

At the end of the day, the Jewish people have seen this type of thing before and know the outcome very well.

Regardless of any votes, the aid isn’t for just Ukraine-that is narrow minded and very short-term-thinking. There is another unstable warmonger in Europe that is commuting genocide. We know how this goes!

We also know that Jews always end up on the menu eventually in these cases.

2

Zucc_Boi_ t1_iuf8zqs wrote

So Israel hasn't actually voted against its allies?

6

jisaacs1207 t1_iufb9u5 wrote

If you want to be pedantic, fine. Otherwise:

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-698743/amp

https://www.axios.com/2022/02/27/us-protests-israel-refusal-condemn-russia-un

https://www.arabnews.com/node/2032486/amp

Israel failed to the toe the line of their supporters.

There are other examples of similar, but that is a fairly recent time.

Then, of course there is stuff like this:

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/30/israel

To answer your question directly, other than outwardly defying and not supporting their supporters, it looks like you’re right about the voting.

My point, excluding the voting, stands however.

Both Israel and Ukraine rely on foreign powers, Israel for much longer than Ukraine. Both countries express their own agency in politics as is their right.

We are in the brink of a world war and genocide is being committed under our noses. “But they voted against us so…” shouldn’t even be on the table.

Especially not for cultures that have been the victim of genocide in the past. There were many reasons given to not become directly involved in ending the holocaust, and I’m glad empathy and rationality won out.

−3

Zucc_Boi_ t1_iugvxq0 wrote

>If you want to be pedantic, fine. Otherwise:

>https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-698743/amp

>https://www.axios.com/2022/02/27/us-protests-israel-refusal-condemn-russia-un

>https://www.arabnews.com/node/2032486/amp

>Israel failed to the toe the line of their supporters.

>There are other examples of similar, but that is a fairly recent time.

>Then, of course there is stuff like this:

You failed to address the fact that this (all are one case, not 3) was anticipated and coordinated with the US when Israel was seen as a potential mediator. As soon as mediation efforts broke down, Israel immediately switched to harshly criticizing Russia. But before any criticism, Israel was already providing Ukraine with humanitarian and material support.

Ukraine's decision, on the other hand, came as a surprise to everyone, and unlike Israel it did not abstain, but outright supported the resolution when the entire west didn't.

>Then, of course there is stuff like this:

>https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/30/israel

How is that related to anything? Israel is defending itself, and so is Ukraine.

>My point, excluding the voting, stands however.

>Both Israel and Ukraine rely on foreign powers, Israel for much longer than Ukraine. Both countries express their own agency in politics as is their right.

>We are in the brink of a world war and genocide is being committed under our noses. “But they voted against us so…” shouldn’t even be on the table.

>Especially not for cultures that have been the victim of genocide in the past. There were many reasons given to not become directly involved in ending the holocaust, and I’m glad empathy and rationality won out.

Your point does not stand, because your only argument was proven to be false. Israel does not vote against its own allies, and does not go against them when it seeks their help, therefore Ukraine shouldn't antagonize its allies either. You can say it's just a vote, but it's also an expression of one's policies, and Ukraine is decidedly anti-Israel.

3