Suessbot t1_iucyz4i wrote
it was declining in the 80s when news like this was only reported in print in scientific rags.
then it was declining again in the 90s after CFCs were banned and the patents on r-12 ran out that forced us to switch to r-134.
now its declining again 30 years later? i thought this was a decade thing or did it just not get reported the last couple decades?
ranixon t1_iuczt5n wrote
Is declining every year, it should be closed by 2075 afaik
dagbiker t1_iudkrzm wrote
Just in time for the ice caps to melt!!!
Suessbot t1_iufa8uo wrote
Where did you get that from?
ranixon t1_iufbq06 wrote
Sorry, more than closed is "pre-1980" leves. From Wikipedia, this is the source of the Wikipedia article
Suessbot t1_iufd54g wrote
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here but I've been following this for 40 years. I was reading science journals before mmgw was a religion for the masses.
NessyComeHome t1_iudb4oz wrote
Has nothing to do with patents. It has to do with the ozone depletion and greenhouse warming potentials.
Phase out started in 2010 and no new manufacturing as of 2020.* of HCFC'S like r-22.
R-22 is being phased out in HVAC. Prices for reclaimed r-22 shot up because there is no new manufacturing of r-22 as of 2020. Hcfc have a lower Ozone Depletion Potential than cfc's, but it isn't a perfect 0, for r-22 it's .05 with a Greenhouse Warming Potential of 1700, where r-134a has an odp of 0 and a gwp of 1300.
Bergensis t1_iue1t1c wrote
> Phase out started in 2010 and no new manufacturing as of 2020.
The phase out started much before that. In 1978 the use of CFC as a propellant for aerosol cans was banned in the USA.
> R-22 is being phased out in HVAC. Prices for reclaimed r-22 shot up because there is no new manufacturing of r-22 as of 2020. Hcfc have a lower Ozone Depletion Potential than cfc's, but it isn't a perfect 0, for r-22 it's .05 with a Greenhouse Warming Potential of 1700, where r-134a has an odp of 0 and a gwp of 1300.
I'd like to add that the phase out of R134a in favour of R1234yf in car A/C began in 2012.
NessyComeHome t1_iue2tjw wrote
My apologies, I was adding stuff around and meant to say r22 phase out began in 2010 with no new manufacturing of r22 since 2020. I will add a * to make it more clear.
Getting my cert, you learn a lot.. like just how bad cfc's were. If I remember correctly, it was 1 molecule of cfc destroyed 100,000 ozone molecules.
Suessbot t1_iufa6fp wrote
> Has nothing to do with patents. It has to do with the ozone depletion and greenhouse warming potentials
It has everything to do with parents. Sure, they tell a nice story about saving the ozone (that was already closing) but it's convenient that every time the parents run out, it gets banned and there is a shiney new refrigerant that is "so much safer".
Whether it really is safer or not, they come up with a new one everytime patents run out.
R12 ran out in the 90s. R134 ran out in the 10s. The new one will run out in the 30s.
NessyComeHome t1_iufaov7 wrote
Ozone hole was closing due to banning of CFC. CFC was extremely harmful to the environment.
R-22 is less harmful but still has an ODP, and a stronger GWP than r134a.
Not everything is a corprotacracy conspiracy.
Suessbot t1_iufcxzd wrote
> R-22 is less harmful but still has an ODP, and a stronger GWP than r134a.
Nobody is disputing that.
Just pointing out that it's very convenient for the parents. If you think corporate America gives a shit about anything but their pocketbook then you need a serious reality check.
Also, the ozone hole was closing before the cfc ban.
Bergensis t1_iue0pjf wrote
> when news like this was only reported in print in scientific rags.
I was a teenager in the 80s, and I was aware of the hole in the ozone layer, and that CFC caused it. I didn't read scientific rags back then.
Suessbot t1_iuf9ld3 wrote
I did.
And that hole was already closing by the time you heard about it. They were theorizing that it was a natural phenomenon. They know a little better now but it still seems to close every decade or so.
sicariobrothers t1_iugm7df wrote
Ok I’ll bite. What is your outlook on man made climate change.
Suessbot t1_iuhd3yj wrote
irrelevant to this conversation.
im not denying the hole exists. im only pointing out that it seems to be closing every couple decades. in fact, it was closing shortly after they discovered it.
Bergensis t1_iujvd79 wrote
> I did.
Which ones?
While I didn't read scientific publications in the 1980s, I did watch the news, and the signing of the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer would have made the news.
>And that hole was already closing by the time you heard about it. They were theorizing that it was a natural phenomenon. They know a little better now but it still seems to close every decade or so.
The hole is constantly opening and closing, as there are natural seasonal variations. It appears that it is a natural phenomenon that is made worse by human pollution. While the fight against ozone-depleting substances have largely been a success, there have been setbacks:
Suessbot t1_iuk3tmo wrote
> The hole is constantly opening and closing, as there are natural seasonal variations. It appears that it is a natural phenomenon that is made worse by human pollution.
That's exactly the point.
Too bad the article and none of the other media say that. All the media ever does is post a "yay we fixed it" pat on the back article about some legislation that was passed, like banning CFCs.
fluffychonkycat t1_iufgout wrote
I was a kid in the 80s and I knew all about it. In New Zealand and Australia we were extremely aware of it, and we still pay the price for it with high rates of skin cancers. People from the northern hemisphere are always surprised by how easy it is to get a bad sunburn here
Suessbot t1_iufjngf wrote
No ody knew about it in the 80s unless you worked in the field or read the published studies.
Bergensis t1_iujwuwm wrote
> No ody knew about it in the 80s unless you worked in the field or read the published studies.
I wouldn't have thought that Neil Young and Warren Zevon had the time and inclination to read the published studies. Both these songs were released in 1989:
Suessbot t1_iuk3xy7 wrote
Whoa, this changes EVERYTHING!
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