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helpnxt t1_jeg1rc4 wrote

Was that your missile?

No.

Fucking Kim

Urgh tell me about it, he's such a pain...

424

Neverwhere69 t1_jegtvg5 wrote

“Waaazzzup!”

“Waaasssup!”

“You up to anything?”

“Nothing much bro. Watching Twin Peaks and having a bud.”

“True.”

“You?”

“Nothing much.”

“True.”

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yuefairchild t1_jeh3o91 wrote

Fun fact: Twin Peaks actually was super popular in Japan, so that conversation could almost actually happen!

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fictionalicon t1_jeea3f5 wrote

It seems like something that should have been done long ago

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mcs_987654321 t1_jeh2rvo wrote

Still a whooooole lot of (justifiably) hard feelings, especially when you consider that China was just kind of off its own universe until ‘76, so had some catch up to do in processing stuff like Japanese diplomatic relations.

Either way, good that this is now in place - nobody is expecting sunshine and lollipops between the two nations, but good to have a non-nuclear escape hatch in place.

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Porkchopp33 t1_jegh1xq wrote

Imagine there is some legendary prank calls going on 🇯🇵🇨🇳

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POOP-Naked t1_jegkkjh wrote

Hello?

Is your refrigerator Running?

Yes?

Laughter and fart noises. Click.

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cosmicrae t1_jeecm8b wrote

I hope this is done by a copper circuit, and not via TCP/IP and a VPN. Actual POTS circuits still have a place in this world.

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Nicolas_Wang t1_jeeu7dw wrote

It's deep sea fiber. You outdated.

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Gawdsauce t1_jefrn4x wrote

Right? POTS isn't secure, it's all converted to SIP/RTP on the provider end anyways.

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OriginOfEnigma t1_jef75iq wrote

Why would copper be optimal vs fiber?

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Mysticpoisen t1_jefepyu wrote

A direct dedicated line can be far more secure than communication over the internet.

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bsjfan0 t1_jefn2qt wrote

But why copper and not fiber?

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Mysticpoisen t1_jefxy9f wrote

Copper is capable of both analog and digital communications and is much cheaper to lay and maintain. Insane fiber bandwidths aren't necessary for a single-use line.

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Befuddled_Cultist t1_jeg5zu1 wrote

Fiber is also capable of analog and digital communication I think.

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iprothree t1_jeg9bxu wrote

You can but I think the planners saw it as it's much more expensive and complicated for little to no benefit. Phone calls only need about 60 kbps of bandwidth, everything above is essentially wasted space on a dedicated line. And due to how light works, adjusting modulation over glass is a bit harder vs copper. Most analog communication over fiber uses a converter to convert to digital.

Besides I think it'll probably just be tapping into existing infrastructure and being allocated dedicated bandwidth.

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Ok-Camp-7285 t1_jegrqg3 wrote

Why would OP hope it's copper just to reduce cost? Seems an odd thing to be concerned with

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machstem t1_jegl1cj wrote

Copper can also carry electricity which is useful for devices that power over ethernet

0

dredbeast t1_jeg432a wrote

It wouldn’t be. Even in modern settings, POTS isn’t just copper anymore. It is copper from a Central Office to the customer, Central Offices are connected together through fiber connections.

So when you are making a call, you are connecting to a telephone switch via a copper connection. The telephone switch talks to other switches via fiber.

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ASD_Detector_Array t1_jeffcv5 wrote

Quantum entanglement is where it's at. Can't hack it if it uses magic ✨

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DaddyIsAFireman t1_jefmlu1 wrote

Except no one has figured out how to communicate properly with entanglement.

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perpetual-let-go t1_jefn0hw wrote

It's easy. You just need a second line of communication to share which spin your source particle has and then they know which spin the entangled one has.

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DaddyIsAFireman t1_jefn8b3 wrote

I too used to think this. There are lots of videos online that can and do explain how and why that doesn't work much better than I can.

People much more intelligent than you or I have attempted to solve this problem and failed. I challenge you to find a peer reviewed video of article explaining how it does work if you don't believe me.

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perpetual-let-go t1_jefnmcp wrote

It was a joke - if you always communicate the particle state it defeats the purpose of having the particles.

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DaddyIsAFireman t1_jefnq9p wrote

Alright then. Thought you were the one who downvoted me so thought you were serious.

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Tripanes t1_jefx3sd wrote

You can't. If you could it would break the speed of causality and that would be a very big no no in terms of the laws of physics as we understand them.

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DaddyIsAFireman t1_jefy4t6 wrote

Actually that isn't the issue, entanglement can already do that.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/541235/is-temporal-causality-broken-by-quantum-entanglement

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Tripanes t1_jeg2g66 wrote

Oh good, quantum stuff gets even more weird

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kindle139 t1_jeg4c9s wrote

(paraphrasing Sean Carroll from memory here)

As I understand it, even though the action is instantaneous over distance due to entanglement, because neither party can communicate this to the other, information isn’t traveling faster than the speed of light.

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DaddyIsAFireman t1_jegawdb wrote

Then how did he explain it as one of the particles can be many light years away and know the Planck time moment it's mated pair changes.?

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kindle139 t1_jegjh8r wrote

I don’t know, I think he might say something like if you look at the equations then you can see that distance is not a relevant factor.

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DaddyIsAFireman t1_jegagll wrote

That's why Einstein hated the idea so much, it broke one of his fundamental laws.

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Narwhalbaconguy t1_jeg6my0 wrote

It’s actually being done with 2 cans and a loooonnnngggggg piece of string

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3threads2vars t1_jegxdas wrote

Sorry, but as someone who works in tech, wtf does this even mean?

Did you mean to say you hope it’s a dedicated line and not just backpacking off the existing internet infrastructure?

1

4lexM t1_jefhtk8 wrote

If anyone out there is well informed about Chinese culture, how angry are they still about Nanjing?

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bssbronzie t1_jefklbb wrote

A suitable equivalent would be to ask any Jews if they are still angry about the Holocaust. Most would say yes but would also acknowledge that that times have changed and should strive for collaboration instead

That being said, Japan's imperial army flag is the equivalent of the Nazi swastika flag and they need to change it 🤣

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MadNhater t1_jeg7rcy wrote

The difference is Germany embraced full on apology mode. Whereas Japan….

“What massacre?”

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notrevealingrealname t1_jegigmt wrote

>Germany embraced full on apology mode

The AfD showed that this attitude wasn’t exactly universal.

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dene323 t1_jeg0jq6 wrote

Well, someone below used the example of modern day Jews still angry about Holocaust but mostly moved on.

Except the "slightly" different context between China and Japan here is what would Jews feel if Germany still puts Hitler and other war criminals in a shrine / church that is frequently visited and paid tributes to by the political elites and citizens alike...

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0nion0 t1_jeg2gh8 wrote

Not to mention Shinzo Abe doing photo ops like this https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-KRTB-3660

It's the equivalent of Himmler's grandson becoming chancellor, slapping an "Arbeit macht frei" bumper sticker on his car then saying that he wasn't aware of Auschwitz

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MadNhater t1_jeg7z37 wrote

Auschwitz never happened…

-Alternate Japan-like Germany

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MtHoodMan t1_jeg7gma wrote

I think one of the differences is how badly Germany lost vs Japan. Germany was broken, crushed, and occupied completely, and had no say in how their own country was going to be run going forward. Japan was also fully occupied, but not through outright conquest, but through an agreement to surrender in the face of overwhelming force. Japan still had a great deal of fight left in it when it surrendered, and infact still occupied a lot of territory in Asia. In essence, Germany had the Nazis beaten out of it, whereas Japan had to and still to this day has to contend with the fact that the militaristic nationalistic side of it never died, it just had to slink away for a few generations

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ChristopherGard0cki t1_jegbmwe wrote

I don’t think this is accurate at all. Japan was 100% defeated militarily. They may have been able to kill a lot more people before the end, but there was zero doubt as to the outcome. The remaining Japanese military was a shell of its former self. Any punch they had left was just the sheer number of civilians they were going to enlist in suicidal last-stands. Plus the entire country was being starved out. They were no less defeated than the Nazis, and if japan wasn’t an island it probably would have happened much sooner.

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MtHoodMan t1_jegfi2b wrote

I would encourage you to read the Operation Downfall wiki, specifically the Japanese defense of the islands section, Operation Ketsugo. I'm not disagreeing with you that the nation was beaten militarily, and they knew it, however they still had considerable military assets at their disposal. Their navy was heavily damaged but still useable for home island defense, and their airforce was still going to be a problem. By the time Okinawa was captured, Japan was already losing. That didn't stop Okinawa from being an absolute bloodbath for the Allied forces.

I would also add that Japan being an island is exactly why it wasn't beaten as badly as Germany. There's no denying that. Just by virtue of the differences of the theaters, Japan losing was never going to be as bad as Germany losing without a fullscale naval invasion.

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ChristopherGard0cki t1_jeggiob wrote

Japan still had some hardware, yes. What they didn’t have was trained and experienced military personnel to operate said equipment. Nor did they have any fuel.

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notrevealingrealname t1_jegmvny wrote

That being said, I feel like as Russia is currently demonstrating, lacking personnel and even equipment doesn’t mean you can’t make it a difficult fight for the opponent.

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MtHoodMan t1_jeh3wym wrote

At the end of the day, they weren't beaten in a way that beat the nationalism out of them. Germany had Soviet and Allied Troops marching through their towns, their cities sieged, their industry completely toppled. It was clear they were losing. To many in Japan, the lack of an invasion meant it felt like they could still fight. Yes, their cities were bombed but they fought for over a year while that was the case. So when one day they were just told the war was over and that they had lost, it came as a shock. Many didn't hear about the nukes until weeks or months after the war had ended. All they had to blame was weak politicians and weak generals, not the fact that they, as a nation, had lost.

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baggymcbagface t1_jeghxab wrote

I think it's less about military strength/defeat and more that the US wanted a strong East Asian ally in the face of China and Russia. Lots of institutions were allowed to continue and they didn't try to change things too much day to day for Japanese people. It paid off and Japan had crazy economic growth at the cost of keeping the good/bad parts of their culture intact.

Whether or not a bloodbath ensued before total surrender, I would wager the US was more scared of China/Russia at that point. But who knows, it's never one thing or another in history. Too many factors.

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ChristopherGard0cki t1_jegi93r wrote

Yea, but the USA also wanted germany to be strong Central European ally against the USSR. The iron curtain literally ran straight through the country, so I don’t see how the USA would have had a different outlook in this respect.

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baggymcbagface t1_jegltwh wrote

With Germany being partitioned into so many different zones and having the nation split in two by people who had a much closer relationship with Germany over centuries, I think they'd be a little more gung ho on trying to overhaul things (out of spite or revenge maybe) and things undoubtedly changed again when east and west reunited - lots of history between all the countries involved.

US and Japan, the relationship is much shorter and Japan was seen (before the war) as the most "civilized" Asian nation. Heck the US kind of didn't care when they were annexing Korea and going to war with Russia. US was a bit more self serving and didn't see any other country that could stand up to the communist bloc in Asia. In Europe, the UK and France could probably rebuild and be a good counter weight even if Germany didn't pan out 100%. Again, hard to pinpoint - interesting to think about why one country did a huge 180 and another just.. didn't lol.

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You_Wenti t1_jefy7we wrote

I’ve seen Japanese tourists laying wreaths at memorials in Nanjing. They were well received, but Chinese are still suspicious of foreigners in general & the Japanese in particular

My Chinese-Japanese friend was too Chinese for the Japanese & too Japanese for the Chinese. He has the worst of both worlds

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MadNhater t1_jeg847q wrote

It think most of the beef is about the Japanese government not recognizing the atrocities.

Same reason why Korea has beef with Japan.

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You_Wenti t1_jegjt0o wrote

Some ppl are educated enough to keep their ire aimed only at the Japanese gov, but many Chinese still have an ethnic distrust for the Japanese. This usually does not prevent them from enjoying anime & sushi, however

Edit - For anyone that doubts me, my friend was called a “Japanese dog” by random strangers that he didn’t wrong in any way

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mcs_987654321 t1_jeh3zmu wrote

Korea had been making some inroads on that front, and there has been some level of recognition and acceptance of blame by Japan for the despicable treatment of “comfort women”.

Not enough to satisfy/assuage most Koreans (which is totally understandable), but the two countries just had a big “let bygones be bygones” meeting a few weeks ago that also helps turn a few more pages.

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mcs_987654321 t1_jeh37dv wrote

Very. (Also: Nanjing is just shorthand for a couple of decades of brutality that preceded it and centuries of decidedly tense relations before then).

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bad_timing_bro t1_jeg0qbv wrote

Even in the US, Chinese immigrants are highly suspicious of Japanese immigrants. Or just straight up hate them. Almost always b/c of Nanjing

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Existing_Display1794 t1_jeey7gj wrote

Why are they flying the Japanese imperial army flag!?

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Successful_Ad_6248 t1_jef0mh5 wrote

Because it is actually still the Japanese Navy flag. Do I think they should change it? Definite yes.

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bombadodierbloggins t1_jef4c2t wrote

In China and many other Asian countries, that flag is still seen in the same way as how the West views the Nazi swastika flag.

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Namn_Namnsson t1_jefsr95 wrote

Some symbols used by the nazis is still used by the German army too. And they were used before the nazis as well. I guess the same goes with imperial flag

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ChristopherGard0cki t1_jegcr8l wrote

But germany had a more clear distinction between the traditional German armed forces (which were still guilty of plenty of war crimes) and the Nazi party and their military organizations (the SS and the SA). Nothing to do with the SS and the SA survived.

In Japan there was no equivalent political movement that swept into power and perverted the national psyche. It was the traditional institutions that led the charge.

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Vuj219 t1_jefruj6 wrote

And it wasn't the imperial flag in the first place, Japan used the same flag as today even during the second world war.

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Mynameisblorm t1_jeg5au9 wrote

This is about right. I think the key difference is that the Nazi flag was the flag of an explicit political party, whereas Japan has been using the same national flag since the Meji era, and the rising sun motif has been on flags, in art and on clothing in Japan since the 1600s at the earliest.

In a similar vein to another poster, Germany still has eagles for national motifs and paints Iron Crosses on their planes and tanks, as they've been a part of German martial culture since long before the Nazis came about.

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ChristopherGard0cki t1_jegcyih wrote

Sure, but if the iron cross was on the flag that was draped over half of europe then I can promise you germany wouldn’t still be using it.

−8

Mynameisblorm t1_jegkatg wrote

The iron cross killed millions of people in the First World War and a slightly different looking version of it killed millions more in the second, I'm not sure where the angst about a centuries old motif comes from with the rising sun.

Before the current state of heightened tensions I recall that China had absolutely no problem with inviting Japanese ships to port calls and naval reviews in China, and allowing them to fly their naval ensign. If it was really as big an issue as reddit seems to make it out to be, I'd think it would spark more outcry at the national level.

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ChristopherGard0cki t1_jegnmie wrote

You’re really bringing up WW1? Because the Allied militaries also killed millions and they all still use lots of the same symbolism. Terrible example.

And there’s a huge difference between China “allowing” Japan to fly the flag (as if there’s anything they can do to stop it) and china (or Korea) being happy about it.

−9

Mynameisblorm t1_jegpfio wrote

I am bringing up World War One, yes, because the point was made as if the iron cross is somehow more benign than the rising sun.

The Japan of WW1 used the exact same flag and symbols while fighting for the allies as it did in the second war and continues to use today, while again being aligned with those same allies who are still using their symbols. They are enduring symbols of their nation, and I imagine it simply doesn't strike the Japanese as a necessity to change them out of remorse for an imperial past, any more than the British would consider dropping the union jack or America the stars and stripes.

To your second point, there is absolutely something China could do about it, as evidenced by Korea a few years back requesting that Japan not fly the naval ensign on their ships during a naval review, and Japan withdrawing from the review. The issue over the flag seems to be a uniquely Korean point of contention given that Japanese ships regularly call on ports throughout their former victims in the Pacific without issue, but if countries feel strongly about it the precedent is there refuse entry to Japanese ships bearing the flag.

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ChristopherGard0cki t1_jegquww wrote

What a load of bullshit. Stop defending the use of a flag that represented the brutal conquest of the entire western pacific.

−8

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22

Leafybug13 t1_jeft4ia wrote

I know when that hotline bling That can only mean one thing

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bloomberg OP t1_jee8l0a wrote

>Japan and China finished setting up a military hotline aimed at reducing tensions between the two largest economies in Asia, just ahead of a rare meeting of their foreign ministers in Beijing.
>
>The installation of equipment and lines has been completed, Japan’s Ministry of Defense said Friday in a statement, calling it a "linking mechanism" that will build trust between the militaries and avoid unforeseen situations.

Read this article for free (and others) by registering your email.

15

Mysticpoisen t1_jeffvfe wrote

Does it feel strange to anybody else having a paywalled publication self-posting and promoting their own articles on here?

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Bootsk8 t1_jefomva wrote

Yeah I'll stay away from Bloomberg links from now on.

I had a problem when I read that 45 was using a specific subreddit for influence, I don't think pay walled articles deserve anymore benefit of the doubt.

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[deleted] t1_jef2z1b wrote

[deleted]

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mcs_987654321 t1_jeh4t3l wrote

Meh, the balloon stuff was pretty low-grade, silly stuff, with a lot of posturing on both sides, I’m not too worried about China not picking up on that stuff.

They did pick up Milley’s calls when trump was engaging in some serious sabre rattling, so still consider that red line to be up and running if/when actually necessary. Not clear if this will hold up long term, but all the incentives favour maintaining this kind of fail safe line of communication.

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japan_love49 t1_jeg4kki wrote

That's going to be no good soon.

−6

mcs_987654321 t1_jeh530o wrote

Why? It’s definitely a harbinger of bad times on the horizon, but it’s always been in the interest of “enemy” factions/nations to maintain a basic, failsafe line of communication.

2

jamiehayter t1_jeenwyz wrote

Great decision on both sides, anything that reduces reliance on USA can only be a good thing.

−16

Marzty t1_jeff6bs wrote

China is force to take a full 180 diplomatically due to economic pressure.

−18

ZuesLeftNut t1_jeekcau wrote

lol, no japan, you don't get to play both sides.

​

People need to nut up and decide what they believe in, you can't be a friend of democracy AND communism. It's like matter versus anti-matter, they cancel out.

​

You either believe in countries "of the people, by the people, for the people" or you side with people like putin, who is apparently are terrible at waging war or wants to ensure russia can't fight any future conflicts for the next century...

Much of life exists in a grey area, this isn't one of them. Freedom or fascism, tough choice yo.

−102

Bob_Juan_Santos t1_jeemt5a wrote

this is nothing new, during the cold war, there was a hotline between the white house and kremlin to enable communication and possibly deescalate situations.

line of communication does not mean they are "friends"

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MobiusOne_ISAF t1_jeenpiv wrote

What are you talking about? These lines are to avoid escalation, not a symbol of friendship. It's similar to the hotlines between Russia and the United States. It's so they can confirm things so a misunderstanding doesn't spark into a war.

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Nerevarine91 t1_jefl7ya wrote

Yeah, there’s an active one right now between the US and Russia in Syria, I believe (at least I think it’s still ongoing? I haven’t checked lately, but I know there at least used to be one), and I think another one specifically about Ukraine.

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robo555 t1_jeeq6bd wrote

This is to enable communication, doesn't mean they're friends.

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Nerevarine91 t1_jefl17q wrote

What in God’s name are you talking about, lol. A de-escalation hotline is common- and a very good idea- among powers, especially ones that don’t get along. It’s how you make sure that nobody accidentally starts a shooting war. The US has had multiple examples with Russia and China (and still does right now!!!), and it’s an extremely good thing. It absolutely does not mean Japan is “playing both sides,” lol jfc

6