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jordanmc3 t1_jddu9r9 wrote

Reply to comment by whydoievenreply in As Cuba election day nears, some voters ask, 'why bother?' by Newgripper1221

That just sounds like an overwrought way of saying “real communism has never been tried.”

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whydoievenreply t1_jddy5bk wrote

Some people can only argue this subject by falling prey to the two points I made.

Which is pointless, time consuming, annoying, when they don't listen. Kind of what you are doing right now.

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jordanmc3 t1_jdeednf wrote

I generally get what you're saying; that when the government seizes the means of production and runs it for the benefit of themselves and their cronies, that's really no different than capitalists owning the means of production, and that isn't how communism is supposed to work. In its true manifestation it would be largely stateless. So you're saying that I'm arguing in bad faith when I attribute the conditions of Cuba or say the former USSR to communism.

However I think its equally bad faith to always resort to that argument any time the outcome of an example of communism is examined. If it was possible to implement an ideologically pure version of communism successfully, someone, somewhere, would have have done it in the past 175 years.

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whydoievenreply t1_jdemk7b wrote

Now this is something I can work with.

Thanks for letting me know your thought process.

The reason why you can't examine an example of communism is because it was conceived as an utopian ideal society, therefore there could never be any examples of it in reality.

I think we are both in agreement that communism cannot be implemented. I also think we are in agreement that government tyranny is a bad thing. Putting those two things together, we can conclude that a government trying to achieve communism can only lead to disaster and that has more to do with the inherent tyranny of the government than with the idea itself.

However, there is one point I would like to raise. Socialism, unlike communism, can actually be implemented. A society based on cooperation instead of competition. Catalonia was an example of a successful yet short lived socialist society. I would argue that anthropologically speaking that has been the norm throughout history. The system brought about by capitalism is what is unnatural. Where workers are alienated from themselves and their work.

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professordantae t1_jdfin45 wrote

Didn’t Catalonia last for like 4 months under that economic system? I’m skeptical because I’ve never seen an example of a strictly socialist economy working. Mixed economies, sure, but not full blown socialist.

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whydoievenreply t1_jdge4kx wrote

It lasted 3 years. There are plenty of accounts of the situation there if you are interested in the history.

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professordantae t1_jdge7yq wrote

I’ll read up on it. I’m a political scientist but will admit have not studied that specific period extensively.

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