Budson420 t1_jab0kw0 wrote on February 28, 2023 at 3:14 AM

Reply to comment by Shuber-Fuber in 'Diplomacy and dialogue' the only way to end Russia-Ukraine war, SA government insists. by tandemuis365

That’s never going to happen and you know it

Shuber-Fuber t1_jabg1g5 wrote on February 28, 2023 at 5:33 AM

So we should award an imperial nation for their invasion?

Budson420 t1_jacgvf7 wrote on February 28, 2023 at 1:14 PM

You also know that’s not what I’m saying. Stop being disingenuous

Shuber-Fuber t1_jaczff7 wrote on February 28, 2023 at 3:33 PM

You're certainly not offering any alternatives.

Budson420 t1_jad0b4b wrote on February 28, 2023 at 3:39 PM

Wars don’t end by one party saying they are wrong and turning back. The only way for it to end is through negotiated settlement. I know people have their emotional gut reaction which is fine but it just doesn’t reflect the reality of the situation. Russia savagely invaded Ukraine and is not going anywhere. These borders have changed countless times throughout history. The only way the fighting and senseless death stops is through a negotiated settlement. This will become even more apparent as the war approaches a stalemate meat-grinder

Shuber-Fuber t1_jad8viv wrote on February 28, 2023 at 4:35 PM

>Wars don’t end by one party saying they are wrong and turning back. The only way for it to end is through negotiated settlement.

Negotiation is ongoing. That's what wars are, negotiation. It's up to Ukraine and Russia to decide when the cost is too high, and there's absolutely nothing wrong for Ukrainian allies to make sure that cost is tilted as heavily against Russia as possible.

Russia already committed genocide against Ukraine once (Holodomor). Russia (at least Putin) already announced the intention to erase Ukrainian identity (also a genocide). So let me ask you this, how high a price would you pay to not get killed or enslaved? Or would you want someone on your side to make sure the cost to enslave you is high enough for those wishing to enslave you that they go home?

That's ultimately what this war is about, Ukrainian wishing not to be enslaved, and their allies supporting that wish. And every negotiated settlement will have to include Russia no longer have a chance to enslave Ukrainians.