I don't think the frustration is against cars generally. It's the crappy car-first infrastructure that pits cyclists/pedestrians against cars and resulted in numerous deaths over the years. I think over 7,000 cyclists/pedestrians were killed in the United States last year alone, along with over 40,000 motorists? Absolutely huge number of people are dying on our streets due to our poor infrastructure.

We have the highest traffic fatalities of any developed country. The Europeans realized this and have segregated a majority of their roads from sidewalks/bike paths as much as possible.

This is just my opinion but

Cars drivers are considered the problem because, fair or not, we HAVE to take more responsibility for those around us while we’re driving. We’re way more PHYSICALLY protected if a collision happens. So I don’t care how unsafe a pedestrian or cyclist is behaving. As the person in the car, I most likely can prevent hitting them by driving defensively and paying enough attention to everything happening.

It’s not fair, and I’m not excusing people who behave unsafe just because they’re on a bike, scooter, atv, or whatever. Obviously they can cause huge, unavoidable collisions. But driving a car is a privilege not a right. And unfortunately that comes with more implied responsibility than being a pedestrian or biker.

And it doesn't help that we give a driver's license to basically anyone. Also some roads are hard to navigate in this country.

Yes absolutely. Most states will never make you re-take a behind the wheel or written test to renew a license unless it’s been expired for 1+ years.

And I was gonna reply to your comment too because it’s so spot on.

Thank you for mentioning that goods are delivered by vehicles to peoples homes…Not to mention having your trash removed by truck, groceries delivered to the store that some people walk to… we need infrastructure that supports cars and protects pedestrians. Some people also have jobs that require them to drive and the notion that there isn’t some work around via car sharing and public transit that we haven’t thought of is privileged and tone deaf.

Motorists are operating a superior piece of machinery: superior in terms of size, weight, comfort, power, safety, convenience, and ease. Flex your ankle a bit and a 3500-pound machine jumps forward.

As such, motorists are seen as being at the pinnacle of responsibility when moving amongst a complex mix of pedestrians, cyclists, and other vehicles. On a bike, I can almost always stop quickly enough to avoid an errant pedestrian. In a car, this is possible but only if traveling at lower speeds. The consequences of a collision are much worse. And yet motorists complain about speed cameras and refuse to pay infraction fines, saying "catch me if you can."

Public policy has been to build and maintain an extensive infrastructure for motor vehicles. It's now become obvious this is not sustainable. Pedestrians and cyclists are asking for improvements, and motorists are pushing back. See for example bike lanes on 6th St, 17th St, K St, and Connecticut Avenue. The pushback is seen as a giant middle finger, and indifference to the carnage.

Motorists aren't always the villain, and of course there are thousands of considerate operators, but a select few really need to pick up their game and become responsible. The same could be said for cyclists I'm sure, but the consequences of their recklessness is much more limited.

ETA: btw thank you for your post. I am encouraged this might start a meaningful dialog.

I drive and I bike. I’ve slammed on my breaks quite a few times because of careless cyclist and pedestrians. However, the large majority of them follow the rules. The same is true for the drivers I encounter. Taking more responsibility doesn’t explain why people hate cars.

Your idealism is great. I would love a society that wasn’t car dependent as well. I wish America invested more in rail instead of highways forever ago. However, that’s not reality. I don’t see how hating reality and bashing people on the internet helps us get to a less car dependent society.

I’m saying people hate cars because it is seen as the driver’s responsibility to keep everyone safe. So if people aren’t safe, the blame/hate falls on the cars. People hate cars because the cars are perceived as the cause of the problem.

As a driver, I look down on most other drivers in DC. The aggression many of them display to other road users (particularly peds and cyclists) is disturbing.

Too many people with "me first" attitudes that are unwilling or unable to recognize that you're never going to get anywhere fast here. The infrastructure design and the number of other road users doesn't allow it.

I think it's the shitty drivers that are the problem. The ones that watch where they're going and follow the laws of the road, and don't drive aggressively around civilians are not a problem. It's the assholes that aggressively drive like they're special and/or own the road, and let's be real, there's a LOT of these. I personally primarily drive and ya there's way more asshole drivers here than anywhere else I've driven, both domestically and abroad, so it makes the rest of us look bad.

Of course, I see my share of idiot bikers that jump in front of traffic, run red lights, etc, but they're pretty much just putting themselves in any real danger. If a car hits them, the worst that happens is a few scratches or dents on the car, the idiot biker obviously will be a lot worse off.

This Redditor gets it.

Probably because your personal vehicle pollutes, requires a massive waste of space to use and store, and when mishandled can result in the death of others.

We got public transit. Use it if you can. Most of this country is designed specifically around cars, and is not walkable. DC is one of the few precious places here that is walkable and has very accessible public transit.

Not saying DC needs to be completely without cars, but they definitely aren’t the heroes of urban living.

• Car owners are looked down upon because they kill people. In this city, you're more likely to get killed by a driver than a bullet, particularly if you aren't in a gang. Reckless drivers are hardly ever brought to justice. A careless truck driver ran over and killed a 5-year old kid in Brookland and the city blamed the 5-year old for it.
• As for accessibility, we have some of the most accessible public transit in the country. For trips that can't be made through a transit route, there's even paratransit. Many disabled people can't drive at all, and benefit greatly from having effective public transit.
• The places that people look down on car drivers have efficient public transit. You can always take a highway to a metro station and go from there.
• Food delivery in many parts of this area can be accomplished through the use of bicycles, electrified or not. It is in many other cities, and to a limited extent, is here as well. Virtually everywhere in this city, it's faster to use a bicycle than drive unless going an extensive distance.

Except in this city it is a reality. We have a great metro and bus system that can get you nearly anywhere in town. Yet, people still insist on driving, many recklessly. Plenty of Assholes driving around cars stopped at crosswalks nearly killing my toddler. Whenever I walk down the road I always wonder where these people are driving to/from and why the heck didn’t they just use the subway/bus or walk. I have a car, but only use it to get out of the city. Many I assume are lazy or just scared of the people on the metro. If that’s the case move to the burbs and stay there.

Only about a third of DC residents drive on a daily basis, so to argue that you need a car is rather silly. It's not car dependent, you just want to drive one and damn the consequences.

https://ggwash.org/view/86455/how-much-does-dc-drive

It's not "car owners" in general. It's car owners who behave badly - car owners who want to speed through residential neighborhoods and busy commercial districts, who want to run red lights and stop signs, who don't use their blinkers, who cut people off, who make illegal turns, who drive aggressively or otherwise drive badly, who double park or otherwise park illegally, who don't pay any of their bills and fines, who are the cause of congestion, and so on. And I'd wager a big percentage of the drivers are just doing what they do as creatures of habit. I'd wager a big percentage of them never actually tried alternatives, like park and ride on metro, didn't try to get their workplace to do telework, or anything else.

Quibble- Nationally more people die of auto accidents, but not in dc. If memory serves Dc auto deaths are around 20-30/yr, firearm deaths are about 10x that.

And, by extension, the prioritization of car-friendly infrastructure / gas prices over public transit in most places. So non-car-owners get the shaft while drivers are usually pandered to.

Most of those firearm deaths are between people who have extensive criminal records, rather than against the general public. While the statistics writ large might look that way, I'd argue that the risks to the general public are higher from cars. There aren't that many 'civilian' deaths. However, most areas that have high car risk also have high gun risk, namely the part east of the Anacostia River.

A pedestrian has never killed anyone by running into them

Fam I work in multiple hospitals throughout the week and sometimes in the same day. I leave my house at 3:30-4AM everyday. Some of us actually do need to have cars

Fam I work in multiple hospitals throughout the week and sometimes in the same day. I leave my house at 3:30-4AM everyday. Some of us absolutely need cars here

> Taking more responsibility doesn’t explain why people hate cars.

A couple thousand pounds speeding, running lights or stop signs, going the wrong way on a one-way, getting too close to cyclists or pedestrians, cutting each other off, etc. hits hard. I see all of this with one block of my home, including in front of an elementary school. Have you ever seen a car crash up close?

DC is one of the few places in the US where you can do anything other than travel by car. That “outsized” portion of the population who don’t want to be ran over are vocal here, that may be why you think car drivers are victims.

It’s also not just cars, it’s the entire infrastructure system. People lose their shit over one bike lane, they then drive obnoxiously around any non-motorists. Why can’t pedestrians or cyclists have infrastructure, too?

I believe all of this except the gun violence / car rage ratio. Need to see some stats on that. Otherwise, spot on.

So one out of every three people I see walking around don’t matter? Gotcha

Dude if you want to be a car owner, move out to the suburbs and rot on the beltway everyday; let those of us who want to be around other people stay in the city and develop infrastructure that makes it easy and pleasant.

Car-centric infrastructure makes the world worse for everyone, but it makes it additionally worse for people with disabilities. These people may still need cars in some circumstance, but having those cars be the exception rather than the rule makes it much better.

Cool. So screw everyone else who needs a car because there’s are so few of them right? This SCREAMS I don’t leave NW

It’s not a reality for a lot of people. People in Themis group really don’t understand that. All you have to do is travel outside your community and talk to people.

You appear to have some faulty assumptions about the nature and geographic distribution of gun deaths. Here: https://dcwitness.org/interactive-map/ FYI you can use this same map to geolocate vehicular deaths. If you do so you will note that they also are concentrated EOTR.

Of course a car makes sense in your case. You do understand that your situation is atypical, though, right?

I can see your point. As a cyclist and part time pedestrian I get it. Safety is paramount. As a car driver I also get it. The roads are becoming more inconvenient with no solutions being proposed. Sounds like government is the true issue (or villain) then.

Yes, but there are multiple people here, including the person I responded to, that are not being realistic. To say that less than half of the thousands of daily drivers actually NEED their vehicle is pretty disingenuous. But this sub acts like NO ONE needs a car while also complaining about the state of public transit. It’s silly to me

I’m from the area, not NW, and drive to care for a family member who can’t bike and honestly is beyond public transportation at this point. I do plenty of things outside of NW that require a car.

I can still separate the fact that not all infrastructure needs to be car-based. As a driver, the best place for cyclists and pedestrians to be is on a grade separated sidewalk or track. When I go places to shop, I realize not everyone can fit at curbside so using a garage is fine. I don’t think all trips should require a car, people should be able to get downtown or to other major employment centers without a car, or do their grocery shopping, or pick up kids from an elementary school - all without a car.

The posts or articles you’re seeing are exposing you and others to a legitimate point of view you might not have considered. Evolution can make people uncomfortable because it implies that something is not working as it should. In fact, that is the case here: society is evolving away from fossil fuels. Reminder that even electric cars use fossil fuels. Most of the electricity in the US comes from natural gas (which is considered to be a fossil fuel), nuclear energy (not a fossil fuel, but with its own problems), and coal (shudder).

Despite the power of the automakers forcing cars down our throats over the past 100+ years, they are (a) not necessary, especially not in urban centers, and (b) a massively negative drain on society. Pollution, destruction of neighborhoods (especially low-income or non-white neighborhoods) to make way for roads, lifelong injuries, and death, death, death.

I’m not going to curse at you as you drive past, spewing invisible glacier-melting particles, but I will silently judge you if you’re using that car to take a trip you could have managed on public transportation or on foot.

Think of it this way: A person driving a car is damaging the environment for everyone, and is creating risk for everyone. In an ideal world, we should do all we can to reduce, and not increase, our negative impact on society.

But that's exactly what I was arguing...

Someone complaining about a speeding camera ticket and someone killing someone is not the same. I feel for the kid and their family. Unfortunately, an emotional anecdotal story is not enough to change the infrastructure of the city overnight.

These “facts” seem off. I can promise you not all areas of DC are metro accessible unless you have hours to waste. Speak to someone working at a nonprofit that helps low income individuals. They’ll tell you how inefficient the metro/bus system is outside of the expensive areas. I get what you’re saying, but these ideals ignore a huge portion of DC residents where walking or biking to a bus or metro then transferring and spending triple or quadruple the time isn’t feasible or possible.

Yeah but this doesn’t change all the negative aspects of cars.

Just means we need more pressure on leaders for increases to transit. I was reading this morning that Mayor Bowser has raised concerns about free and overnight buses (may not support it). Give her office a call and let her know that she is in the wrong.

I’ll keep my car and I’ll keep living in DC. I’ll also keep avoiding small-minded people like you who think an ideal can be made real by complaining and throwing metaphorical eggs at the other side.

Not true

The F*ck you mean need to get out of the community? I grew up in a suburban, car dependent, dystopia and cherish not having to drive here. Unless you have odd hours or some other very specific situation, I don’t get driving.

Source?

I have been for car free areas for some time. It’s not a matter of understanding. I’m realistic enough to know it not reasonable to just shun cars and ban them overnight.

I mean exactly what I said. Did you read it? Go to neighborhoods that you don’t usually frequent and see how they’re living. Shoot even look up the wall scores of different neighborhoods. This city is NOT what you think it is.

[removed]

Cool story, bro.

[deleted]

She didn't sign the bill that approved it, but it was approved unanimously by the council.

The more I read people’s opinion it seems the government is the problem. No real solutions are being given to those who need cars. No real solutions are being given to those who feel unsafe being a pedestrian. Both are fighting back because they don’t feel heard.

Driving at a higher speed than a road is designed to travel safely is putting other people at risk. Risky drivers are the ones killing people. We need to hold them accountable.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fatal-car-crash-increase-risky-driving-rcna43969

I'll be the first to admit that I'm a car and motorcycle enthusiast; I LOVE the art of driving and riding, and I practice skills and take driving/riding courses as often as I can.

That said, driving is a PRIVILEGE and NOT a right... And too many drivers (ESPECIALLY out here in DC; y'all CRAZY) have an entitlement to the road.

It doesn't work that way.

My honest opinion is that we should do tiered licensing, like they do in Germany. But I also understand that until we fix our nationwide public transportation system, that tiered system would put undue burden of people of a lower SES, especially those that HAVE to commute to work.

If we had a better public transportation system, a LOT of people who would otherwise drive (out of convenience, skill level, or fear) would be off the road and in a bus or train.

That said, I get why the average person would be pissed off at drivers around here... its an utter shitshow... I can't count the amount of times that I've almost been flattened while riding my motorcycle.... Like the dude in a RAM 1500 who was doing 50 in a 15 on the opposite side of the road (i.e. headed right towards me) to get around a double parked car, and I had to go ALL the way into the bike lane (lucky it was unprotected) and still almost got hit....

Should be, I agree. I can separate my ideals from reality. I can work towards a better future while not bashing people attached to the current system. Cars are clearly needed to make this city work, no matter how much bad they bring. You need a car and I need a car. I’m someone with a kid who goes to school across town because the in boundary school could not meet their needs. I miss waking them to school, but a car is needed now. A car makes it possible for me to take care of an elderly loved one while working full time and only 24 hours in the day. Neither of our stories are unheard of. They’re quite common. A lot of those people just aren’t on Reddit. And before you ask, no, I don’t live east of the river.

I’m curious to why you insist on blaming some other entity except drivers. It’s also curious that you would start this discussion after yesterdays post where a driver yelled racist comments at a biker trying to get a car out of a protected bike lane. It almost seems like you’re justifying the drivers racist remarks because they were driven by some other entity.

And I would also push back on your comment that the roads are “becoming more inconvenient.” They were always inconvenient for everyone except drivers. Now that we’re democratizing transit and making it equitable, drivers are realizing they have to share or give way more of the transit pie.

Everyone just needs to take a breath and slow down- physically (the new 20mph default speed limit is great!) and emotionally. Nothing is so important as to risk carelessly injuring another. The government isn’t to blame- we are.

You’re surprised a person who drives a car in a walkable city like DC is deflecting?

1. Because I can.

2. This group consistently downvotes everything car related.

3. If you want to correlate that to prejudiced comments then go for it. Assume intent all you want.

4. No DC driver will tell you this city is convenient. It literally was built to be inconvenient.

5. You say blame, I say common ground. I can separate my opinion from reality to try to understand. Can you?

I agree but I think it’s “unfair” to make the comparison between gun violence and car/driver violence. We will often here more about instances of gun violence but won’t hear about “near” misses or car crashes unless someone is dead, seriously injured, or a building is ran through.

So I think a more transparent metric is necessary - unless it already exists.

Oh yeah, transit is NOT equitable in this city.

On NPR this morning she came out against it because “other jurisdictions aren’t doing the same thing” or some such nonsense. Hope the council remains firm and overrides her if she does try to stop it.

It’s definitely the government’s fault. They’re the ones ACTUALLY responsible for keeping us all safe by providing the necessary infrastructure. The only real solution is being vocal and fighting for actually safe bike routes and not just painted lanes on busy streets.

The amount of money and time this will take is not easily allocated. But the alternative is the reality we live in where civilians are at each others throats. I’ve lived in the Bay Area, Sacramento, Santa Barbara, Phoenix, and now DC. I’ve lived in some of the “best places in the USA for bikers.” This usually just means that there’s more than 10 miles of bike/walk paths that are separated and far away from cars.

I don’t know how it gets done in dc. But the real solution is wider sidewalks with dedicated bike lanes on them that have a clear distinction for direction of travel.

I agree - and something about driving really fosters the me first attitude. I look forward to the future when biking to work becomes inconvenient because there are too many other cyclists lol but as it stands, on my east-west dc commute on bike, I always enjoy riding with a group of commuters cycling, especially when there’s no bike infrastructure and we just take up the road.

I think that a lot (not all!) of the worst drivers in dc are simply carrying the driving practices and driving expectations they learned wherever it is they learned them into this city, which is a very different driving environment and where they are fundamentally maladaptive. I can understand how they would be frustrated but really it’s on them to adjust.

Imagine promoting everyone owns a car in dc. I wonder if OP would change their tune when they come to realize the city is not geometrically designed for 700k people to own a car.

It’s not small minded - it’s “reality.” Imagine everyone owning a car in dc. Imagine all the new apartments requiring an additional parking garage or even an underground parking garage. Imagine all the row homes that are turned into condos and each owner parking their car on the street or families owning 3 cars and occupying street parking on a block.

Now imagine all those people transiting to work with all the people from MD and B VA as well.

I agree that we should hold reckless drivers accountable. IMO, this change starts with police issuing moving violations. The cameras aren’t enough. The fear of getting randomly caught versus learning the cameras seems more effective to me.

OP, have you ever been to a house party at a rural college in the Midwest? Because so many drivers can surprise you and turn into villains in my experience.

I'm no puritan, but once you move away to an area where people take the Subway or an Uber out to the bars, and you come back to the Midwest, the drunk driving will turn your stomach.

Nearly every single one of the kids will drive home drunk in a truck or SUV their parents bought for them, many of them solo. Kudos to those who actually DD.

Guess where Dad is? He's also driving home over the limit after a night at the bar or out with friends, because "Uber is too expensive" and people who aren't poor or disabled don't take the bus in Ohio.

"I'll have to Uber all the way back here tomorrow morning to pick the car up! That's like 40 bucks that I don't have!"

This sub hates cars. And they’re right, it makes sense to encourage as many people as possible to use public transit or bikes. But I think its bad that we ignore taxi/rideshare/delivery vehicles in these conversations.

So much street parking has been eliminated in the city, meanwhile these services are at an all time high. I’m all for bike & bus lanes where they make sense, but I think ignoring taxi/rideshare/delivery vehicles when urban planning is dumb.

We don’t need long term street parking, but I think short term or pickup areas could help with congestion around popular bar/restaurant areas.

Yes. We need to have the police pull those people over, not just mail a ticket.

Car owners are (usually) not evil. Car dependency is evil. We should design our city so that everyone can get around safely without a car. This will definitely require expansion of public transit reach and frequency, and expansion of safe sidewalks and safe bike lanes. In some cases this may require reducing the convenience of driving, an activity which the city and the country currently heavily subsidizes.

You’re not going to win this battle on this sub.

Wmata is not dependable and reliable

Never. It would be beyond frustrating and a major pain in the ass for me to not have a car while living in the city.

The reality is that everyone won’t own a car it DC. But some well. There isn’t a problem with owning a car in DC. Some of y’all act like people are evil for owning a car and not wanting to depend on wmata or ride a bike around like Lance Armstrong

With the way you framed and included negative affect in your original post - I’d argue you don’t separate your opinion from your argument.

You’re frustrated with “inconvenience” while cyclists and pedestrians are “frustrated” with lack of safety and non-car transit options.

IDK dude seems easier than parking and traffic.

Buses need to be better regulated though. Their timing is rough and the stops suck.

Never said I was surprised. But I’d like them to be more explicit about their victim blaming.

If it is for you that’s great. I’ll pass and get the whip out the garage.

Car owner here - I haven’t felt looked down on. Maybe get new friends.

Hey as long as you keep it out the bike lane we good. 😆

Wmata stinks that’s why

Nobody is against car owners. I own a car and drive sometimes myself. However the majority of car owners cannot follow the rules. DC issued over 1.6 MILLION tickets last year for speeding, red light running, stop sign running. That is over 5 tickets for every vehicle registered in DC. In an ideal world everyone would get along. However until car owners can generally learn to behave themselves we will have to keep taking lanes away from them to provide buffer space and protection for everyone else because car owners can’t follow basic safety rules.

People with disabilities are less likely to be driving around and more transit dependent.

One big trait of villainy is to just make up whatever justification you want for doing what you want to do even when the facts aren't even close to backing you up.

Deal!

It's totally the governments fault for bending to the will of automobile capitalist for over 100 years to prioritize the infrastructure that was built, so more cars will be bought.

But now, they are making more solutions possible to establish rules and laws that we can adapt to.

If we are annoyed that they are creating a more equitable system, then you're just being a privilege asshole.

> But driving a car is a privilege not a right.

Another big aspect of the car hate is that most car drivers act like it is exactly the opposite.

Vehemently opposing bike/bus lanes and streeteries because it means less city-subsidized parking for them, complaining about speed bumps and other traffic calming measures, constantly whining about "scofflaw cyclists" when 90% of them are rolling through stop signs too, getting into hysterics about "predatory" speed and red light cameras, etc.

Car drivers act like they're the most persecuted group in the city when in fact they're one of the most pampered.

>why the heck didn’t they just use the subway/bus or walk.

1. origin and/or destination aren't convenient to public transit

2. public transit duration is excessive compared to a private vehicle duration

3. on a deadline and don't want to risk delays associated with public transit

4. transporting large items that aren't easily carried on public transit

5. it's rainy/cold/hot/humid out

6. plenty of other reasons.

“I would love a society that wasn’t car dependent”

/Drives a car in a city rife with alternatives.

Sociologists call it "false consciousness " when 2 opposing but similar groups rather war with each other than those people/issues making them go to war.

Inconsiderate drivers and inconsistent public transit options are the real problems but it’s easier for people to reason that all drivers are bad so that’s what you see in here. No middle ground. It’s mostly the same loud few that have made r/fuckcars a personality trait though. In my experience, most locals and natives don’t really share the sentiment

It's irrelevant, regardless. Showing that a freak accident happened once, somewhere, does not make it a mundane accident, which pedestrian deaths are (unfortunately). It's just a dumb way for the poster to give a pedantic self-high five.

have you considered further whining about what people say online, while at the same time society totally caters to you/car owners at the expense of everyone else? Like this is such a made up problem. in reality, DC is an insanely car centric city in a way that makes no sense considering its density and street layout, but we privilege car ownership at every intersection, pun intended. No one is taking your car away, or your streets away, or your parking away, even though they should, and doing so would create a better and safer city for everyone, absolutely including the differently abled. Such an absolute victim mentality from you, totally disconnected from real life/our policy reality.

my small quibble with this is that it's not that cars are more "PHYSICALLY protected" it's that cars cause insane damage when they strike things due to their size/weight/speed. It's not about the protection that the driver has, it's about the fact that the things/people that drivers hit suffer terrible injuries. The trend seems to be making cars bigger, higher up, and with poorer visibility, aka more dangerous to bikes/pedestrians/children.

People forget that a big part of public transportation is getting to the actual places, many can't even adequately walk down streets in some parts of SE due to potholes and just being uneven. Plus the trains stop at like 1 am, last call tends to be 2 am...idk DC makes itself a place for extremes.

Please don’t call me differently abled, I don’t know anyone who likes that. It screams fake ally.

why on earth would you assume no solutions are being proposed? there are lots of solutions being proposed. You just dont know them because you're a johnny come lately to an issue you are not familiar with.

Car driver privilege

And you deserve better 24/7 transit to be able to do so. There are always edge cases that require cars, but even those can be reduced substantially. You wouldn't likely need to drive everywhere if you lived in NYC where the subway runs 24/7.

Yes but people will read your comment and echo that sentiment everywhere like it’s any more reasonable than saying everyone needs cars

So a person in a car is more physically protected than anyone or anything they will hit?

That’s literally, exactly what I said

1. You might be close to a park and ride, or some other option for getting into the city.

2. I’d rather sit on a train for an hour than drive for 20 and find parking. Plan better, and plan to arrive early.

3. See 2.

4. This happens so infrequently that it’s one of the reasons I think it’s okay to drive in the city. Remember we’re trying to get to less drivers, not 0. The idiots sitting alone in a car on Columbia Road just to move their body from one place to another are the problem.

5. You’re a human on a planet with weather. If you’re not ready for that stay inside your A/C. Driving in rain is dangerous too. Ask the NOVA thread.

6. Plenty of excuses.

I love cars, they've always been my passion and I couldn't imagine ever living without one, purely from an enthusiast perspective. That being said, first time he took me to a parking lot n taught me to drive the first thing my pops told me was "you are now in control of a two ton killing machine". That's important to remember.

shrug, you asked the question. Sorry that people have different priorities and/or comfort levels than you.

If you need to move a family around, move cargo, travel a long distance, or travel between points that public transportation doesn’t connect very well, then a bike doesn’t work and public transportation is often inadequate. The case of the single traveler who needs to get between two locations downtown and has time to burn is also atypical.

Improving public transportation is a worthy but long term goal that also involves increasing the density of the city to the point where mass public transportation is sustainable. In the meantime, insisting that everyone immediately ditch their car and start biking is unreasonable.

I think it's because the DMV car culture is highly toxic, and as a result, drivers bear the brunt of the blame in the city. metro has options for differently abled people. If we had a better metro, and we invested less in a losing mode of transportation, the city would function better. We know this is the case because the city was so much more pleasant during the lockdown.

no, it's not. reading comprehension is low here. you're focused on the defense provided to the driver. that's not the issue. it's that the car is an offensive weapon. if you cant grok the different that's on you.

Lol at you insulting my comprehension skills when you wouldn’t even put in the extra effort to spell check your own comment

And you’re still just stating the exact same thing from a different vantage point.

People in cars are more protected = things cars hit are less protected

They’re the same statement 🤣

Lol this has to be a troll. It’s as intellectually lazy as saying “but I can’t have white privilege because something bad has happened to me.”

Btw, a majority my food deliveries in DC are delivered by people on bikes, and thank god for them because you’re right I would not survive.

>We’re way more PHYSICALLY protected if a collision happens.

is not the same as

"we cause terrible injuries in collisions because we are the bigger, heavier, faster party"

but it is a very car-centric view on the subject, which in of itself is interesting. and yes, your reading comprehension is poor, regardless of my spelling

Not in person. On this thread.

I know. I wanted to hear what people had to say. Idc about the downvotes.

I don’t have to be an ally if I’m in the community.

Imagine thinking someone not against something means they’re promoting the the opposing view

Don’t lie.

Yup. Lived in ND for a minute after college.

I appreciate your insight

Agreed. I would love to see certain streets get rid of parking longer than 30 minutes.

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It’s not reality for everyone in DC to not have a car. No one is advocating for everyone in DC to have a car either. I don’t see a viable solution to quickly getting rid of cars in the city so I’m trying to understand all the hate.

The dehumanization of non-motorists, particularly cyclists, is for a lot of people fairly polarizing. Of course not every motorist does this, but enough do this to make it a pretty disgusting stance. I understand cyclists have a certain degree of responsibility to follow the rules of the road, and to ensure their own safety, but the viewpoints of a vocal minority is so far out of line with the rest of the population you can’t help but feel like there’s a lot of silent resentment among the many. The fact that on any given “cyclist killed in traffic” news story you have laughing emojis and plenty of comments supporting the murderer and laying responsibility on the cyclist, even if it’s a clear cut case of driver aggression, it’s pretty fucked up.

This might be more prevalent in rural/ suburban areas but that mindset poisons the masses.

That’s like saying white people are the problem so let’s prevent everyone white from coming to the city and bash them.

People in this sub are vehemently against car owners. I’m fine with less lanes where there are more pedestrians. That makes sense. It’s the instant hate and downvotes whenever someone mentions car ownership in this subreddit that confuses me.

Nailed it. Drivers ranting about “entitled cyclists” plumbs new depths in self-awareness.

I don't know a single person who looks down upon car drivers. I do look down on people who prioritize car infrastructure, especially fast car infrastructure over everything else. People who live in the suburbs and want to drive through the city at 40mph. People who oppose bike and tram infrastructure because it may mean reducing car lanes. People whose only solution is to have more cars and make them go faster.

I have a car. I drive. But I almost get hit by a car 20% of the time when running. And I'd like that not to happen.

No need to lie.

I don't think anyone is saying cars have no purpose, they're just not efficient in an urban area. No one is arguing we should get rid of the garbage of trucks.

>we need infrastructure that supports cars

What does that even look like? The city has been developed with cars in mind. How much more car infrastructure could you ask for and what would it realistically accomplish?

So because there isn't a quick solution we shouldn't try?

We should try. We shouldn’t hate.

I agree, but most car owners don't want to try. I think that's where the hate comes from.

Cars contribute more to climate change than biking or walking.

Everyone in the city has access to efficient public transportation. The differently abled are covered and many probably aren’t using cars in the first place.

Car owners are villains because they are reckless and uncaring at best, self centered murderers at worst.

Just because you’d cry without Uber and delivered food doesn’t mean you can project that into the rest of us. Our feet work and public transpo is top notch.

I’d agree that car ownership makes sense in most cases for exactly the reasons you’ve listed. What I oppose is superfluous, near-daily use that is more for convenience than necessity, and I’m pretty sure such cases are widespread even acknowledging your point about city density. (I’d also add that car commuters from MD and VA are more problematic along these lines than those staying within DC.)

bike riders in DC are assholes, i’m saying this as a former bike rider. I felt entitled to the roads, but cars off, and never stopped at stoplights nor stop signs

I’ve gotten plenty of deliver from bikers……

lol that definitely has and will continue to happen. Hell people have died without colliding, all you have to do is lose balance and land on your head the wrong way.

If you didn’t, they would be dead.

When they hit you, they get a concussion and you get a dented fender.

When you hit them, an EMT team has to scrape their splattered remains off the asphalt, and you get a dented fender.

There are quite a few things cars do that lower quality of life. I live in a residential area that gets a lot of car traffic. There is honking all day and even into the night. Drivers have absolutely no respect for the quality of life for others.

thread tl;dr: people give you well-reasoned points, and you agree with all of them, but you just keep harping on about imaginary people who blindly hate all car owners personally

anything I'm missing there?

(before responding, please consider: disliking people who continue to advocate and reinforce our current inequitable transit system is not the same as "hating car owners")

citation needed

This ... and when was the last time you saw someone on a bicycle chase down someone in a car and try to run them over? Or someone hop off their bicycle and try to fight someone in a car? I personally can't remember an instance of it happening here. But I've seen plenty of videos of it here. And I have personally been chased by someone in a car while on a scooter. And i have been purposefully called a slur by a driver and then run over while on a bike.

If you want to discount such instances ... when was the last time you saw a bicycle parked in a car lane?

> I’d rather sit on a train for an hour than drive for 20 and find parking. Plan better, and plan to arrive early.

Congrats. Not everyone would rather, and MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY, some literally do not have that luxury. People work second jobs, have day care arrangements complicating things, and have employers that are shitty and will fire you after being late just twice.

Not everyone gets to just "plan to arrive early" when they are rushing from one shift to another, and/or trying to hit their kid's daycare before it closes and they start being fined for being late.

more often then not i see bikers blow thru red lights

Where in this thread has anyone looked down on anyone just for being a car owner?

You realize some people live in the city and have to get to places...outside of the city? For various reasons? Dc metro sucks lol, as someone who isn't a transplant I find it hilarious how the transplants are so adamant about certain issues lol

cyclists breaking rules annoy people

drivers breaking rules kill people

(driving also has a whole host of other negative externalities, regardless of how responsibly you drive: namely noise, pollution, and public space use)

that's the difference 🤷‍♀️

Car "accidents" are the leading cause of death for people under 40 in the US. Maybe we should start giving a shit.

MOST PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES CAN'T DRIVE A CAR!!!

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Not yelling at you bitter, its just "disabilities" are used as an excuse all the time for car simps.

There’s a bunch of asshole drivers out there but you’re also talking to a subreddit full of sheltered transplants who can’t fathom that 70% of the DC workforce don’t live in this city or near a metro station so of course they’re going to drive in because it’s still cheaper to own a car than to live here. Or they live just out of walking distance from a metro. Or they don’t feel safe taking public transit where they live.

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Driving is included in “transit” but I assume you mean “mass” and “micro-mobility” transit. Driving is definitely not equitable when you consider the mounting costs, regulations, and responsibilities that driving entails.

Currently mass- and micro-transit are not equitable because of lack of access and emphasis on the needed infrastructure, much of which is caused by the car-centric culture that developed in the US for a myriad of reasons.

Blech. Cars in cities suck!

Because those solutions inconvenience OP 😂

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>Sounds like government is the true issue

It's not government - it's bad policy. Decades of poor decision-making has led to the growth of communities where driving is the only viable means of transportation, resulting in its overuse and the road congestion we see today in much of the country. But look around at the rest of the world. Governments in other places took a more balanced approach to building their cities and suburbs. For example, the Dutch made it their policy to grow their communities in a way that made walking, biking, etc. viable alternatives.

So don't let yourself succumb to the knee-jerk reaction of 'government is the problem'. If you care enough about the issue to post a complaint like this, research what specific things the government has done that led to this situation, and identify and support alternatives.

Hey, disabled person here, don't say differently abled. Differently abled is harmful to our community

yes they always use disability as a "gotcha" point when it comes to advancing their own agendas of car convenience. If they actually listened to disabled voices they'd know that the priorities are greater public access, more accessible public transit, etc. rather than an "attack on parking spaces".

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See, right here it seems like you’re just trolling. Cmon.

I love to drive in DC, the last time I took the metro was in 2019.

LMAOOOOO this is where OP completely lost credibility to me. Just a bozo!

Because when I think of cars I think of suburbs

No need to validate any of you. You all blindly downvote any opinion you don’t agree with when people bring up valid reasons that they’re not true. One person even noted that 1/3 of DC residents use their car daily. People in this subreddit want a world that caters to them regardless of the impact. This post literally proved my point.

Read the comments on this post for the people who CLEARLY don’t like car owners. I’m assuming you can handle that.

Not people downvoting me acknowledging being differently abled. Y’all so hurt and self absorbed. Y’all really don’t like people who don’t think like you.

Hey there. I’m part of the community. I can identify as I please. You can identify as you see fit.

This is just not correct. Do some research.

Just because you use people’s realities as a gotcha moment doesn’t mean I do. This comment says more about you than me. Stop assuming my intent.