Too_LeDip_To_Quit t1_iuik51o wrote on October 31, 2022 at 4:29 PM

I am starting to doubt whether "Vision Zero" (even if you take the slogan seriously) is the right way to think about this.

Obviously, traffic fatalities are tragedies and we should do everything in our power to prevent them. I just don't know that it makes to frame DC's entire transportation policy around prevention of the worst possible outcomes.

I would much prefer to see a "reset" and renewed commitment to moveDC. Make Vision Zero a part of that. But also tell a bigger story.

Getting around DC sucks for most people. Whether you're walking, biking, driving, or transitting, it is often really difficult and stressful. That makes life here less enjoyable, depresses our local economy, and yes, produces unnecessary deaths and injuries.

But if you all talk about is V0, the only people who are gonna listen are activists who already agree with what you're trying to do.

NicholasAakre t1_iujwz68 wrote on October 31, 2022 at 10:00 PM

> Getting around DC sucks for most people.

The vast majority of that is due to cars.

Walking is stressful because you gotta be on alert for reckless drivers at intersections (and maybe the sidewalk!) and car-centric infrastructure making it difficult to traverse the city on foot.

Biking is stressful because you gotta share road space with angry people operating vehicles the size of Sherman tanks.

Transiting is stressful because the bus gets stuck behind all the cars idling/parked in the few dedicated bus lanes that exist or are just stuck in general traffic.

Driving sucks because you are contributing to and at the mercy of traffic from all the other cars on the road.

Get rid of the cars (or drastically limit their use) and this city will instantly become more pleasant and livable.

Too_LeDip_To_Quit t1_iuk5o3y wrote on October 31, 2022 at 11:09 PM

I don't disagree with anything you say. But I think transportation advocates also need to acknowledge that in huge swaths of DC, living without a car is not practical. That's concentrated in Wards 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8.

Maybe one day we will build a better city where that's not true. But today it is, and strident anti-car sentiment is not only a bad strategy politically, it's just not calibrated to the city's current needs

ocelotalot t1_iuizz59 wrote on October 31, 2022 at 6:13 PM

I disagree about "vision zero" which is just the catchy slogan for the projects aimed at making streets safer, in general. Will there ever be zero deaths? No probably not, but they have to slap a slogan on it and I don't think that's a terrible one. But your point about DC being stressful I think is a good one. Now I'm not an expert on this, but DC (and surrounding area) has some of the worst traffic design I've ever had the displeasure of trying to navigate. I suspect that it leads to a lot of frustration which leads to bad and unsafe behaviors. I further suspect that fixing some of those things would in fact help everyone get where they're going faster and make things safer for drivers and pedestrians alike. Like if you know the light is on a 5 minute cycle and missing it is going to add that much time to your commute, that's a pretty big incentive to run it.

713ryan713 t1_iuivz66 wrote on October 31, 2022 at 5:47 PM

People don't want to hear it, but relatively speaking, very few District residents commute by bike. Greater Greater Washington and others peg it at about 3% of the city's adult population. The entire D.C. transportation policy focuses on catering to this super niche demographic that uses a mode of transportation the overwhelming majority of residents don't use.

BrightThru2014 t1_iuixq0v wrote on October 31, 2022 at 5:58 PM

A lot more people would bike if you built a critical mass of useable and safe infrastructure. Source: I biked for awhile until I moved jobs and my new route to the office felt unsafe.

apendleton t1_iujrw3a wrote on October 31, 2022 at 9:23 PM

It's aspirational. Amsterdam, which now seems like a cycling utopia, had a cycling modeshare not too different from the US until the 1970s, when citizen outcry about motor vehicle deaths prompted major policy changes, which resulted both in drastically improved cycling infrastructure and disincentives to the owning of cars (taxes, etc.). Now cycling modeshare there is about 30%, but the infrastructure and policy came first, and the modeshare followed. DC ostensibly has a goal of increasing bike/ped/transit combined modeshare to 75%, and the way to accomplish that will be improvements to the infrastructure and service for all three, after which (hopefully) more people use them instead of driving.

I haven't been particularly impressed with Vision Zero stuff so far, but "[t]he entire D.C. transportation policy" as being about bikes is disingenuous: they've also added dedicated bus lanes, new crosswalks, leading pedestrian signals at existing crosswalks, traffic calming measures that increase pedestrian safety by reducing car speeds, etc., etc.