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Good.

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Why would anyone want that job

You can stand around and not do too too much for $60,000 a year plus overtime.

And you have to be a cop

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Improve the culture, do some housecleaning to get rid of dead wood, get rid of Proud Boys sympathizers and others who have no business being cops, and maybe people will want to join up again.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the work life balance. Constant cancellation of days off, constant extended shifts, constant vacation day blackouts, shitty supervisor that are out to get you. Or maybe it has to do with all the criminals they are employing. How many have been arrested or prosecuted in the last year

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And a pension!

There’s advertisements in NYC to be a DC cop…on the MTA. Any job that’s posted in that manner is a job not worth having.

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>get rid of Proud Boys sympathizers and others who have no business being cops

Who is left

There is a weird mythology surrounding the existence of independently-minded cops. Cops draw from people who are ideologically oriented toward reinforcing whatever the existing system is. This is their role in literally every society that's ever had law enforcement. They will never not have sympathizers with extra-legal factions with that same system-reinforcing goal (proud boys).

If we give them more money and officers, they don't seem to do any better though.

I knew there was a catch.

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Good good. Put the money towards college tuition for anybody that gets accepted and maybe kids will start caring about school.

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“Lowest number since 1970s blah blah blah” DC population is current 100,000 less than that period so of course the police count would be lower.

DCs issue isn’t that it doesn’t have enough LEOs. It’s that it’s LEOs are shit and the DC Council ties their hands.

The District has more cops per capita than ANY city in the US.

Better yet, that’s doesn’t include the thousands of addition LEOs who have jurisdiction over areas of the District.

The NPS has police jurisdiction over RCP and the National Mall.

The Capitol Police are thousands in number and have jurisdiction over Cap Hill and adjacent neighborhoods.

The Federal Police have responsibility over every Federal building not patrolled by the NPS or Cap Police.

The Transit Police have responsibility over Metro.

These additional agencies total nearly 4,000 additional LEOs. I mean, Jesus. DC has more cops per capita and yet doesn’t have responsibility to patrol 25% of the city land, any of the federal buildings, nor its transit system.

We have 3,300~ officers currently — in comparison we had 4,000~ officers as recently as 2013, when murders were about half of what they are now. Draw your own conclusions.

We have 3,300~ officers currently — in comparison we had 4,000~ officers as recently as 2013, when murders were about half of what they are now. Draw your own conclusions.

Ideally they would be better reinforced by a prosecutorial and judicial system that follows through, so that they wouldn't even be entertaining the thought of vigilanteism.

I conclude that the police didn't do as much to reduce crime as you'd think.

Also do any cops in DC actually get out of their cars and walk the beat.

There were 3800 in 2020 when murders started going up again.

Murders have trended up since 2012 what are you talking about?

Starting a trend at the minimum isn't really how you do trends if it's pretty flat around that minimum.

There's a clear shift of trends between 2008 and 2009 where it dropped 22% in one year. There was one outlier year in 2015. Then in 2018, it started shooting up again.

Between 2009 and 2017, there wasn't a whole lot of variation except for 2015.

No one with integrity want to work for MPD.

Back in 2011, MPD had roughly 3,900 officers and the city recorded over 7,000 violent crimes and made 44,000 arrests. Last year, though, MPD had about 300 fewer officers — and there were just over 4,100 violent crimes and 16,900 arrests.

Draw your own conclusions but the numbers say your conclusions are highly selective, immaterial and nearly identical to the increased murder rate across the nation, not just DC.

DC has 25% more cops per capita than NYC (whose cops also patrol their transit system).

20% more than Chicago, 30% more than Boston and Detroit, twice as many cops per capita as LA.

And again, this doesn’t include all the other adjacent police agencies in DC that reduce MPDs overall responsibility.

Yeah the violent crime statistics can easily be juked (as is supported by the numbers re: actual arrests) year over year and suffer from reporting bias. Now do the same analysis with murders — you can’t fake a murder rate or hide a body. That’s your best proxy for overarching crime trends. And the correlation with the number of officers employed is crystal clear.

Why would you conclude that? Why did murders more than double during that same period? And before you say Covid, they were rising before 2020.

Okay you initially said murders started going up again in 2020, now you say 2018. So now do you acknowledge there’s a correlation with the number of officers employed?

Lol…talking about “juking the numbers” that’s exactly what you did, no?

You used 2013, probably because it was a highly anomalous year that sold the story you wanted to tell with the second lowest number of homicides on record. A number that immediate shot up in the year and second year following when there were the same number of cops.

In 2010 when the number of DC cops was higher by 38,there were 30% more homicides than in 2013. How is that possible if your correlation to the number of cops and murders is supposedly true?

In 2008, when the number of DC cops was higher by 50, the number of murders was 83% higher than in 2013? How is that possible?

You are only right if correlation = causation, which simply is t true.

DC literally has more cops per capita than any other US city, by a margin, despite our coos having fewer responsibilities.

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Lmao maybe because they can't stop all the theft that happens everyday. Even with all the camera in DC, car break ins are super common. And the dumb motorcyclist gang that doesn't follow traffic laws pass by police all the time.

Colleges will accept just about anyone who will pay them. Like 90% of the stupid kids in dc will get into colleges. College graduation rates are the key statistic, of these dumb kids that get accepted maybe like 10% actually graduate college.

I think you are confusing cops to the prosecutors. Police make arrests and build cases. The prosecutors and judges let the criminals walk.

Now do three year rolling average trends of murder rates correlated to number of police officers. The data is very obviously there to prove my point as much as you’d like to pretend otherwise.

Look at murder rates (which can’t be fake and don’t suffer from reporting issues) in DC vs. the US. You see your DC centric spike in crime there very clearly.

Im curious - most cops I see in DC are Black. How many of them are proud boy sympathizers.

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Now compare 2013 to 2023.

I want one specific data point on violent crime: how much of the reduction is due to a reduction in snatch and grab robberies of phones? It’s a violent crime as defined by DC (and most jurisdictions), and due to that, when you looked at crime maps in the early 2010s, many of the most “violent” places were near popular metro stations like Dupont Circle. With Apple and Google increasingly making phones worth less and less to steal (by locking them down, etc, such that a theft now is good only for conning someone into buying a useless phone or parting it out), those crimes have seemed to drop precipitously.

Thanks for checking one of my crime apologist bingo squares, “crime also occurs elsewhere, so we should ignore it here”.

Bet if I scroll down you probably covered “it’s not as bad as the 90s”, too.

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I am saying the nationwide increase in murders is less than the increase in murders in DC on a per capital basis. This further correlates with a drop in the number of police officers during that same period in DC. Hence, the drop in police officers correlates with a disproportionate surge in crime in DC. Can you follow?

How do you think prosecutors build cases? Spoiler alert: they can’t do shit when cops won’t show up to testify

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1)The increase in DC is higher; 2) There are similar trends with declining numbers of police officers in those cities too; 3) I agree a more progressive prosecutorial posture when it comes to enforcement is also to blame.

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Same place you’re getting your data from. BTW I’m referencing a ten-year period here, not from 2020 onward.

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MPD Lieutenant secretly feeding Proud Boys intel: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/02/16/dc-police-tarrio-proud-boys-lamond/

MPD fistbumping Proud Boys while escorting them to a bar after a day of randomly assaulting people in the street and vandalizing a black church in DC: https://twitter.com/Curious_Kurz/status/1147182850132905984

And in fact every time Proud Boys came en masse to DC, they assaulted people, MPD just stood back and did nothing.

And this is all part of a bigger pattern of police getting cozy with Proud Boys. https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1371096606502756354

The cops know these repeat offenders. They have video of them committing crimes. The prosecutors and judges don’t care and decide not to press charges. It’s a circus.

It's kind of amazing how for example I see Park Police, Secret Service and other agencies pulling cars over for traffic violations than I do MPD. And it's not like MPD isn't there, the violations happen right in front of their cruisers but they just sit there and do nothing.

Huh staffing issues started around a decade ago.

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Well in this case the escalating staffing issues resulted in an increased (i.e. over doubling of the) murder rate…so maybe we should listen to them?

Also some user posted an analysis awhile back about how DC will always need more police officers per capita than other cities because they have to staff more protests, protect more soft targets, etc.

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It’s amazing that those agencies have literally nothing else to do but traffic. A park, capitol, or secret service officer will very regularly go an entire shift without one call for service.

Cops are required to show up for court and get paid ot for it, so that’s not even a thing

No it doesn’t. Full stop. Also, quit moving the goal lines. You’ve lost this argument, admit it like an adult and move on. DC is the most overpoliced City in the nation despite adjacent LE agencies taking enormous responsibility from MPD

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I don’t work in the system, but I have friends who do. Whether or not cops are supposed to show up to court doesn’t mean they do. My point isn’t to say that the system is working (it’s not). My point is that blame falls on everyone, not just prosecutors and judges.

I don't acknowledge that at all since you haven't proven it. Try posting number of murders per year with number officers per year if you want to show a correlation.

Numbers are all there. If you’re too lazy to look them up that’s on you.

More cops = less murders. Sorry that makes you upset.

Use three year rolling averages. Numbers are all there.

Huh? I’m sorry you can’t do data analysis? Numbers are all there.

DC also has a much higher base line policing requirement due to staffing protests and protecting soft targets. So the comparison of police officers to other U.S. cities is just sort of sadly ignorant of the underlying arguments here.

More cops = less murders. Sorry that makes you upset.

So you can't prove your claim.

Got it.

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Link your data.

Also, what’s your excuse for both significantly more cops, significantly lower population and 2X the number of murders through the 1990s?

That can’t be explained if more cops = less murder.

I’m not sure what numbers you’re looking for here? From 2013-2022 murders nearly doubled and the number of police officers decreased by 15-20%. What part of this needs further analysis?

You just said the data doesn’t show a correlation — soo don’t you have the data in front of you?

More cops = less crime in the long-run compared to baseline existing crime rate (caused by external social factors). The 90s were the height of the crack epidemic, the baseline crime rate was far higher — and over time, the police were able to bring the crime rate down.

You just said the data didn’t show a correlation — so don’t you have the data in front of you?

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What does that list have to do with the increase in murder rate in DC from 2013-2022?

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Are you really this dense? I never claimed that. I said that the relative INCREASE in the murder rate in DC from 2013-2022 outpaced other cities (while the number of police officers declined), not that the absolute number was the highest in the country at any point.

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On what basis do you say the rise was not more radical than any other city (and how do you separate that from other cities also losing officers during this period).

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Because DC cops suck I’ve only been in DC for six months and I can tell that cops here suck, even more than the cops back home in Alabama They are never around, if they are, it’s either sitting in a patrol car or with twenty other cops They never come when you call them They have the least amount of responsibility than any other cops, due to having the Secret Service, National Park, Capitol Police, and MTA patrol

People can complain about how morale is low around cops, but they’ve done to themselves. They’ve shown that they are scared of being held accountable, get angry at slight disrespect, retaliate for anything, and genuinely awful at their job

A shortage of police and a shortage of mental health workers/ social workers seems like a great combination. If we want to cut police there has to be a ramp up in programs to alleviate factors contributing to crime, but I don't see that happening either.

I have my data from MPDs website. You are the one making the outlandish claims that aren’t supported by DC or any other cities data (more cops = less murder” so you must have some other source of data. Link it here.

Great then you can clearly see that murders nearly double from 2013-2022 while the number of MPD officers declined by 20%~ during that same period.

So where’s the controversy here? The numbers speak for themselves.

On what basis are you claiming that the top 20 cities in the US by population had their murder rates increase by more than double from 2013-2022?

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Lol…you aren’t equipped for this.

Peak DC cop numbers were 1999. It’s been slowly declining since.

Yet murders steadily declined for the next 13 years despite MPD losing hundreds of cops.

Less cops yet fewer murders for 13 years. Explain.

Then 2015-2019, the number of murders stayed statistically static, despite MPD losing hundreds more. Explain.

Your argument is juvenile and o Lu works if you exclude decades of data precovid and data showing the murder rate increase in DC for that 2 year Covid period was mirrored exactly across the cities in the rest of the nation. It was a national trend, not a local anomaly.

Back to the kids table son, the adults are speaking.

1985 147 1986 194 1987 225 1988 369 1989 434 1990 472 1991 482 1992 443 1993 454 1994 399 1995 360 1996 397 1997 301 1998 260 1999 241 2000 239 2001 241 2002 264 2003 249 2004 198 2005 195 2006 169 2007 181 2008 186 2009 145 2010 132 2011 108 2012 88 2013 103 2014 105 2015 162 2016 136 2017 116 2018 160 2019 166 2020 198 2021 226 2022 203

“Then 2015-2019, the number of murders stayed statistically static” — LOL, do a three year rolling average please. You’ll see exactly what I’m describing, murders go up while the number of cops go down.

Also I’m going to assume the “actually murders went down after the crack epidemic of the 90s subsided” argument is trolling so I won’t bother to address it (for your sake I hope you’re not actually making this argument).

Okay so is that “no basis”?

There were 103 murders in DC in 2013 and 221 in 2021. That’s over double in 9 years. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Washington,_D.C.

So I guess we accept you were wrong at this stage?

Dude, you can’t dismiss 16 years of both declining cop counts and murders because “muh, crack in the 1990s”, yet then think 2 years during Covid when murders were increasing nationally( and is now declining) is “finally” indicative of DCs declining cop counts showing up in the murder rate?

You can’t possibly be that daft. Or you must be a cop, and not a bright one at that.

Cheers mate, go on believing DC isn’t the most policied city in America.

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I’d check those numbers again buddy. And how many of those cities also had declining numbers of police officers?

Again, if you take a rolling three-year average of murder rates for each year from 2013-2022, they consistently increase over the last decade, mirroring the decline in employed police officers. Are you able to understand what I’m saying?* We are talking numbers here so there’s not really room for interpretation.

*So the rolling murder rate in 2013 would be the average from 2011-2013, for 2014 it would be the average of 2012-2014, etc. This helps flatten the otherwise moderately noisy year-over-year data to generate longer term trend lines.

Those agencies don't have to respond to 911 calls for service.

The examples you gave are of a white and Hispanic officer. You didn't answer OPs question about how black officers are PB sympathizers.

None of those agencies (except Metro Transit) respond to 911 calls for service.

Metro Transit does but they're so short, they've started to pay MPD officers to work overtime at certain stations.

That’s simply not true. The websites for Cap Police and NPS Police even reference reaching them via 911.

DCs office of unified communications gets the 911 call and then depending where it is, routes the NPS, the Cap Police etc to the scene.

Show me the year-by-year data. You can't just compare the beginning and ends of time periods to show a trend. Come on, it's basic statistics.

Feel free to use a three-year rolling average for that period. You’ll find the same trend.

You sound like an elon musk cult member

I never specifically said black officers are Proud Boys sympathizers. But meanwhile I DID give several points of evidence speaking to the fact that there are indeed Proud Boys informants, enablers, and sympathizers on the force. And one wonders why the black officers do nothing about it if they do indeed constitute "most" of the force, knowing full well that some of their own fellow officers cheered and fist bumped racists who vandalized black churches in their city. If they are "most" of the force then why are they bowing down to white supremacists? Particularly when they don't even hide it? I mean, that fist bump was in broad daylight, complete with cigar-chewing shit-eating grin. Why do black cops tolerate this bullshit? That's where the "blue line of silence" degenerates into bullshit with power held by a racist minority. Maybe that's the real kind of uncomfortable question that should be getting answered.

Uhhh right. So it's fine for MPD to sit around ignoring crime in front of their face all day long just because they *might* get a 911 call. And let's face it, they try not to respond to a big chunk of the 911 calls they get, either.