Submitted by DCcatdad09 t3_10t1vmm in washingtondc
Just called in a pizza at Red Light on 14th and when I picked it up there was a mandatory 20% service charge… for pickup? I understand dine-in but pickup is ridiculous. Has anyone else experienced this?
Was going to do pick up from Thip Khao tonight but they also enforce 20% on pick up. Absurd.
I'd just walk away from my pizza if they tried that shit and wouldnt remove it.
Yeah wouldn't be going there.
Fuck that
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Someone's gotta... fold the box. And get the pizza in it? Seems pretty above and beyond to me, it should be 35-40%.
Shame because its delicious. Their catfish and alligator are to die for. If its 20% extra for takeout I would just eat there and at least have my meal served and not have to deal with dishes and trash. Same price but you get a waiter
Yep I was disappointed to see it. I can stomach the mandatory 20% when I dine in sometimes. But the fact that it’s mandatory, even though I’d leave it anyway, really irks me.
What’s actually frustrating is I used to have to bust my ass and miss out on weekends with friends, all while smiling and being funny and attentive all night, to come home at 2am smelling like a toddlers hands, just to HOPEFULLY make somewhere close to 20%.
That’s the part that I can’t come to terms with. It’s not about the money it’s about the principle.
Yeah I stopped going to Red Light after they pulled that shit.
That’s how 1 star yelp reviews are made
I'm from Detroit. Red Light is not Detroit pizza.
My yelp review activity has increased 200% fold since “wellness fees” have become the new scam in the restaurant industry.
Still tasty, though. But fuck that 20%
I’m sort of scared to even write this but saw a thread on twitter last week about what terrible tippers people are and a bunch of people who drive for delivery services were agreeing at how awful 20-25% is on big orders. I felt guilty realizing that’s apparently a cheap tip now … but also that’s on top of a “delivery fee” and a “service fee.” The perspective of the thread is that if you’re being bourgeoise enough to have people bring food to your door you should be compensating them hugely, and I guess I get that to a degree but it also feels counterproductive. Case in point, I skipped a restaurant outing with friends as well as a fallback delivery plan tonight because $70 for a mid-tier entree + shared app + drink or $45 for a pizza was not worth it, and I can’t be the only person in that boat — it doesn’t seem sustainable (maybe I’m being naive?). I don’t want to be a cheap asshole who only tips the bare minimum of 20% but I can’t afford to pay double what a dish costs with everything (tax + tip + fees) added on.
Yeah its fine.
Martha Dear does the same. I don’t go there anymore.
They should just sell the pizza for $0.99 and make up the difference in "service charges"
I used to work there. The fee is applied equally - take out and dine in and 100% goes to FOH staff.
Forced tipping for no work still seems wrong.
Naw bro thats like tipping in a drive thru
Yeah, especially since no tips for the actual people who made the food.
Agree! Plus that dishwasher!
In my mind, I see service as a sliding scale. Start at 25%. Am I standing up when I order? Minus 5%. Are you refilling a water glass? No? Minus 5%. Are you cleaning up after me? No? Minus 5%. 10% tip on a takeout order seems fine when you consider all the services you’re not getting
The Little Grand off H Street does 22%. A 12" pepperoni pizza comes out to $25.50 before tax. Even for pickup.
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I'm from Detroit, I agree it's not the best representation of Detroit pizza in this city (I find it too heavy), but I don't see what about it isn't Detroit pizza. Do the unique topping choices like pierogi bother you? Or is it that any Detroit pizza that isn't exactly like Buddy's simply isn't Detroit pizza in your mind?
Had this with Pop Fizz carry out last night, and their order system also defaulted to adding 20% additional tip!
Can't wait to see the Popville post saying this business is closing.
I mean, I don't think it's like servers are living large now
I can understand the pandemic caused a lot closures and loss of business for restaurants and there was a need to charge fees to stay afloat. However, I feel years later and dining has come to its new norm with restaurants just milking customers now. Not to mention the supply chain and inflation, but it’s taking advantage of customers for the sake of the business. This isn’t just limited to restaurants as it seems like some small businesses are putting tip jars near the POS. Lastly, this discussion with the tip minimum starting at 20 percent with the service/recovery fee in small print conveniently distanced from the tip and total on a bill.
Some restaurants will remove the surcharge/recovery charge if you ask them to (politely).
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Personally I think they should do away with tipping and just charge enough to cover their labor cost. It annoys the shit out of me when you go to counter serve places and the payment terminal has a preset tip to 18% or more. You feel guilty because you are standing in front of the minimum wage earner who you don't want to short but effectively you are paying the owner because they are the ones supplanting wages with tip income and pocketing the difference. Basically that's why you are seeing so much of it now because owners can keep listed prices lower knowing they will cover part of their costs with tip revenue on top of the bill.
This thread makes me want to cook at home more often.
That’s insane…. Add it to the tracker https://www.reddit.com/r/washingtondc/comments/10547wd/restaurant_service_charge_tracker/
just cause something bad happened to you doesn't mean it should happen to someone else.
many of these service charges are not getting passed on to employees.
I don't think this is a you problem. This is a business isn't working correctly problem when the only way the labor can get by is if you're totally paying their wages.
What services are you getting with takeout?
I never get delivery anymore because added fees have made it way too expensive. But I live alone. Maybe if you are ordering for a whole family it would be different.
20-25% isn’t cheap — don’t base anything off of a twitter thread.
This, I tip damn well and it's frankly silly but here we are - but fuck this shit 100%.
Don’t let them gaslight you. 20% tip is fine.
F no.
Call Red Light and place phone order. Order pizzas for pickup with expectation that you will pay at pickup. Don’t pickup said pizzas. Ownership is stuck feeling like jackasses and the hourly staff, who have zero control over shitty ownership, hopefully gets to enjoy eating the “dead food”.
I have a whole family. It's not different.
I stopped ordering take out and started doing pick up only. Then all the crazy dine-in fees and tip culture creeped into pickup orders, so we just cook at home now. We make it part of family time. Having a family in this area is mind-numbingly expensive. Daycare costs are insane. Food costs are going up so fast. As a single person, I wouldn't have noticed a 10-20% difference in my food budget. But feeding a family of 4, plus occasional in-laws/guests, the increases really take a toll on the budget.
So no more restaurants for me for a few years, I guess.
Is this a case of, ~~mY FrEedUms~~? The power you hold on deciding someone’s wages? If they look at you a little funny, do you deduct from them? If they make a mistake are you deducting from the tip? Have you ever made a mistake at work? Do they deduct from your salary?
You literally admit you’d leave 20% anyways. These threads and this mandatory tip outrage in this subreddit are getting so old. Two of the top three posts are about this. You guys would complain if there were no service workers willing to work and no bustling city full of good places to eat and then also complain about paying mandatory tips.
i think that argument during the beginning of covid held a lot of weight. i think that argument still holds weight if you're eating in person, inside. you're exposing yourself to a virus that can cripple you for life for fun, but the waiters just have jobs, you know? but a pickup fee is ridiculous. on delivery, i pay 20% on delivery and sometimes that means that takeout from a restaurant isn't in the cards, and i should get takeout from dominos instead, or cook. just because it's not in your budget doesn't mean it's unreasonable.
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I order from red light through grub hub and just see a 10% sales tax on my most recent pick up order
The service fee at Little Grand covers the tip.
You’re tipping because you feel guilty that they’re underpaid. And it must work
Or you could go one better by flipping it open at the counter in front of the register, asking for a napkin and a glass of water and dining in.
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We’ve stopped going to a local pizza place just becomes of this. The guy answering the phone for pick up orders is relentless about the pick up tip. It sucks b/c it was our fav place
But for pickup?? During the height of the pandemic there was a local restaurant I'd get takeout from every other week, purely in an effort to help keep them in business. I'd tip them 20%. Now that they’re back to dine-in, I’m not going there as often, and only dropping a buck in the tip jar when I pick up my food. The higher tips during the crisis were never meant to be permanent (IMHO).
They explained it to me because I left a tip when I went there for take out. They told me I didn't need to tip since the fee covered that (as well as other things that I can't recall off the top of my head) and offered to take it off. So maybe I'm biased since they pointed this out to me instead of being shady about it. Plus, the folks who work there seem like a good group of people.
I do, however, agree that 20% tipping for take-out is unsustainable in the long run. It was fine during the "take-out only" days, but things have gone back to the illusion of normalcy and folks are dining in again.
After I started getting that crap at fast food places, I stopped caring what they think of me when I hit no tip.
I’m glad they told you about it 👍
Nahhhhhhhhh, I’ll be here as long as these mandatory tips/fees threads are here. Just like you in the two different threads about it today.
Do you interact with workers while you are there? Is their labor worth less?
“I don’t think the workers dealing with hordes of pickup orders should be compensated adequately.”
Do the workers dealing with you deserve less money than the workers dealing with diners?
“I think the restaurant owner should charge an honest price and knock off the phone-app style fees”
My guy those charges are -not- going to workers.
So you’re mad that some people now are making more money than you used to make? That’s the issue?
I mean depends on how bad the mistakes are, yeah.
This is a totally made-up metric. Why do the people dealing with the hordes of angry pickup orders (“where is my pizza???”) deserve less money?
The people dealing with hordes of pickup orders are not…working?
We get it dude. You work in the service industry. It's obviously in your interests to continue to beat this drum on every thread on the subject.
It's pretty damn boring to read at this point though - you don't think you're getting paid enough, fuck off and work in another industry.
My guy you have no basis for saying that.
You don’t think hearing people post about service fees every day here gets boring to read??? If you’re tired of hearing it just fuck off to another thread
No I don't. I support raising awareness. If you don't like it, fuck off yourself.
I do, actually! That’s why we saw these service fees pre 82 passing. There is 0 requirement for these fees to go to anyone but the owner, and they are not required to redistribute them to anyone. There were plenty of article pre 82 of folks tagging these onto bills with no raise in pay for anyone, which is where I think we see the ire come from.
My chief complaint as well is that it’s a hidden fee - just raise the menu item price.
I would have to call bullshit on them merely because they didn't provide any service outside what they're already being paid to do. Report them to DCRA.
lol just matching your energy 😂
You must have hit a nerve if that’s all they can muster up in reply lmao
I don't actually work in the service in the industry. That's why I'm so annoyed about this. People posting in this thread are white-collar workers coming up with reasons to be cheap (but still enjoy the fruits of DC's restaurant scene). In my office job, my weekly pay isn't determined by the completely arbitrary whims of other people. My boss doesn't make up rules to avoid paying.
~*~awareness~*~
Change. The. System. Then.
Stop taking aim at customers. A lot of service industry staff make out like bandits, which is why the majority want to keep the status quo.
This is the weirdest take. You agree it was so much work to make any money under the non mandatory tipping system. Now it’s easier for employees in your former though the benefits are somewhat canceled out by inflation. And instead of being grateful that in a way working conditions have improved you’re…whining?
Agreed, let's do everything we can to bankrupt local businesses if we don't like how much it costs to patronize them.
> Is this a case of, ~~mY FrEedUms~~?
😂 wtf are you talking about dude
Then people will just complain about not being able to get reasonably priced pizza anywhere in DC, just like they did with breakfast sandwiches.
Sonny’s pizza also does this. Clearly stated on their website.
Put Review on google plz
Move out of DC it is going in the wrong direction. Costs increasing for small business its very difficult to meet all regulations, pay staff, pay bills.
Ask the business owner if their labor is worth less. I don't think it is. If you pay your to-go people a tipped wage, that's fucked lol. I literally walk in and take a bag and say thank you. Should I tip extra for them putting silverware in the bag that I specifically asked them not to? For running the POS? The kitchen is "plating" most of the shit anyway, they're literally just putting boxes in a bag. I should give them 25% for putting boxes in a bag? Americans are morons all the way around, I swear.
Until everyone just gets over the "awkwardness" of having to tip/over-tip, this practice will only get more popular and worse. I'll state it plainly: if you are someone who over-tips out of guilt, you are part of the problem and you have no right to complain. If you're tired of it, then stop feeding it; insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
How are these hidden fees legal?
>My boss doesn't make up rules to avoid paying.
Are you okay with the fact that this is a reality in the service industry? If your boss was able to and did make up rules to avoid paying, do you think it's right for your business' clients to cough up your salary? What do you think will stop such bosses from abusing their workers?
I don’t think the service industry is full of rich people, no. Get real.
Did I say that?
Did I attribute that sentiment to you?
No I did not.
You should take a moment and actually read responses to you rather than spouting off with your usual diatribe.
I like David and had been wanting to go through and try the pizza. Maybe I’ll go once, but that’s a lot for a 12” pizza. Might just have to try the Ledo here in Brookland instead.
My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I also don’t really give a shit about a business that is sneakily passing the buck of paying their employees properly to the consumer.
Got it, so your beef is with the entirety of the food service industry. I mean, probably for different reasons, I also don't think restaurants should be allowed to not pay their staff, but there's plenty of arguments over that, that we don't need to add to it here.
Tipping is a totally made-up metric, which is why restaurant workers should be paid the same as fast food restaurant workers. Thoughts?
> Why do the people dealing with the hordes of angry pickup orders
Handing over take out =/= entering UFC cage.
I guess my word choice could have been better, but they aren’t servers, and shouldn’t be compensated in the same way.
No just not a lot to say to some dipshit trying to pull politics into a gripe about mandatory tipping. You can fuck off too.
First they came for our bacon, egg, and cheese.
Free Pizza!*
*Service charges apply.
This is 100% about Uber Eats and DoorDash. These delivery apps have changed the game in terms of percentage of sales that are now take-out. These fees allow the restaurant to cover the fees Uber/DD charge and to grab a piece of the in-app tip that only goes to the delivery driver.
Is sales tax charged on the fee? I assume it is.
Pure bull shit. I like their pizza, but not enough to get ripped the fuck off.
Yes Little Grande on H St does this too for online order / in person pickup, which is a complete joke because they don’t even notify you when the order is ready.
Red Light is notorious for this. I stopped going there for this very reason. They can fuck right off with their service charge.
I think it’s partly how everything is taxed, adding 20% to the total would be taxed differently than 20% as tips as the tax for that is passed to the employee generally.
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just tell them you're not going to pay it and if they refuse to delete it walk out without the pizza. let them throw the pie away
My office job also is not as violent as "entering UFC cage" but I'm still paid for my work. Who cares?
So you would be fine with a big "pickup fee" to account for workers dealing with pickup orders? I'm sure many angry people on Reddit would be posting about that.
Pretty simple, that pizza would have sat on the counter. I would have refused to accept. If they provide service above and beyond, I'll tip. If they just do the ordinary, I'm not going to! It's not like their prices are cheap. $19 for a cheese pizza is just as likely to get my business as $24 so they'd do better to just price it up front.
Too many choices, especially for good pizza in the district to accept that.
You said, "A lot of service industry staff make out like bandits" which is definitely not correct.
Is the labor of workers at Thip Khao dealing with hordes of pickup orders worth nothing to you?
I don't understand why the labor of people dealing with pickup orders (of which there are a lot more now) is worth nothing, or $1 or whatever. People really do love to save a little money.
Correct, it is worth nothing to me over the price of the food. You are very confused if you think the responsibility of paying the staff falls on me the consumer.
At this particular place, the people plating the food and serving the food and boxing the takeout are…the same people. They package it up for me, and it sits there til I come get it. They don’t have to seat me, or answer any questions, or bring me drinks or bring me food or extra utensils when I drop my fork. No, it’s not worth the same tip.
Bro, this is America. It does.
It's not the same tip. You aren't getting drinks etc. so your tab is generally significantly smaller with a pickup order.
Yes. Takeout has no service element except handing me a bag.
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Dude, tip whatever you want and the rest of us will do the same.
And no, my pad Thai eat in is the same price as takeout.
Wrong again
Yes, and you'll eat that mandatory 20% tip if it's applied so that workers dealing with the apparently large numbers of cheap and angry DC diners can be adequately paid.
The USB stick is $0.99 and the shipping is $29.99
For someone who claims not to work in the industry, you sure do care an awful lot about tipping on take out orders.
What? No. I don’t go to restaurants that impose mandatory tips. Bye now.
Ticket base price is $15 and service fee is $20.
I care when people are being intentionally cheap and stingy, yeah. It bothers me.
Do you include restaurant owners in that?
? What the freak are you always on about??? Why does the restaurant owner not have to pay a fair wage in this scenario? Or what about that the core feature of tipped positions is that it’s variable???? I don’t get it
You know that most people have to perform labor right? Often for minimum wage?
Is the labor of the check out attendants at Trader Joe's dealing with hordes of bags of groceries worth nothing to you?
Just 3 low payments of 9.99 for S&H
Tipping 20% on takeout is downright laughable.
Those jobs aren’t tipped. Restaurant jobs are. It is what it is.
Huh so your whole position is arbitrary. Neat
I thought they charged more for items on those apps to offset the fees?
FWIW I call in my order to Red Light directly to pick up and they still tack on that 20%.
I think he’s a paid troll. He just repeats the same thing over and over again from thread to thread regardless of whether he’s getting reasoned with, insulted, proven wrong. It’s like a broken recording
No. Vulcan is a moron. He doesn’t represent us. At this point I think he’s a paid bot regurgitating the same exact talking point over and over again
20% to the person at the take out counter and then 20% to the Uber eats driver then right? What ru even saying
Yes, I’m paid by service industry workers out of their 20% mandatory tips to be an advocate for the practice generally. You got me.
I usually tip for takeout because typically, a server has to sacrifice tables to take care of takeout orders. But it's usually around 10%.
Yes, their 1 minute of labor is worth less than the 4-15 minutes of labor that go into serving a table for a sit down meal. Should you get paid the same amount for significantly less work time?
As long as it isn’t a surprise. I get that pick ups are more frequent, and may not have been a part of the business plan pre-pandemic, so something needs to be done. But sneaking fees onto the check is cutting corners, and if they are doing that god only knows what corners they’re cutting with the food.
That’s the way it works in the industry, tho 🤷🏽♀️.
FOH makes an absurdly low hourly wage (I think $5/hr) that is supplemented by tips. BOH receives a significantly higher wage that isn’t supplemented by tips.
So, a Thip tip, if you will..
^(I'll see myself out)
I categorically refuse to tip for carry out or fast casual sit-down dining.
We're the customers, not the employers. We don't decide wages.
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Do you tip when you buy stuff at the supermarket?
Does the labor of countless cashiers, inventory workers, stockers, butchers, and other staff mean nothing to you?
Of course it doesn't because you are the customer. You pay for the price of the product you are buying. The employer sets the price of the product and that should cover whatever wages they pay their employees.
This is how it works in every single country in every single industry, except for food and cosmetic service in the US.
"People love to save money. More on this and other insights at 11."
just don’t get why you keep repeating the same exact talking points over and over again even when people try to give reasonable responses as to why your statements are not completely valid or relevant in certain cases. Also the complete inability to apply nuance and reason to some arguments but just resort to calling people cheap.… seems like a bot or chat GPT. Also PS front of house restaurant workers are tipped. The rest are not.
100%! They get away with doing this bc ppl feel too guilty to complain and just comply! It’s bad enough that many DC restaurants have mediocre overpriced food and rude service and now this shit?! They wouldn’t be so bold if they didn’t think they could get away with it. It’s emotional blackmail!
Yes I’m a chat GPT bot using servers paid for by service workers. You got me.
Yes precisely, that’s not how it works in the restaurant industry so people should stop acting like not paying tip, or paying small tip, is justified and noble. It’s not. It’s just cheap.
For Pizza, yes. Pizzaria Paradiso, and Boogy and Peel both do it.
I think it's the same to the employee, whether wages or tip income would be taxed as ordinary income. Not positive. If there are cash tips that aren't reported though of course it's probably 0% except for that one honest person. Who uses cash these days though?
Not_Cleaver t1_j74tpom wrote
No. That’s insane. A pickup restaurant shouldn’t be charging tip. If they can’t make it, they should just up their prices by twenty percent.