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TheTowerBard t1_j5vpypz wrote

Reply to comment by Cobdain in self-defense effectively being banned in Vermont. by Northwoods01

We live in a very very safe society despite what the angry man on tv tells you. If you think you can’t leave your home without a gun in VT, you are exactly the wrong kind of person to be out and about while armed. I’d recommend addressing paranoia with a therapist.

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joeydokes t1_j5vu9vs wrote

> We live in a very very safe society ...

Pretty much says is all. A Constitutional Carry State in which gun violence is a rounding error. And, FWIW, you have no clue as to how many VT'ers are concealed carrying (or have vehicle guns) because nobody advertises it. Its a lot more than you would think, specially in rural parts.

Just because you may not agree is not cause for your judging others POV WRT exercising a constitutional right.

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TheTowerBard t1_j5vuwh0 wrote

Joseph… I’m from here. I’m very aware there are far too many of you out there overcompensating for things in life and/or living in a constant state of fear making you feel like you need a gun at all times. You don’t have to be so scared all the time big fella.

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Cobdain t1_j5vz322 wrote

Yeah, so you have clearly demonstrated your level of restraint towards people of differing views. I’m going to remain civil, not because you deserve it or anything. You are trying to put all gun owners in this box of paranoid, scared, “compensating” which is closed minded nonsense. I drive a Honda mini van and drink fiddlehead and listen to classical music 😂 I am happy I have never had to use my weapon, I’m not chomping at the bit like you make me out to be. Your virulent attack on my opinion is welcome… but that’s just your opinion man. You are entitled to it, as I’m sure you let everyone in your life know on a far too regular basis 🖖🏻Bards gonna sing tho, even if nobody cares to listen to them

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TheTowerBard t1_j5w0ls5 wrote

Your original comment displays a lot paranoia. If you genuinely feel you need to have a gun everywhere you go, you need actual help. Therapy. Sorry if saying that is mean, but my gods man, you don’t need a gun to go grocery shopping. That’s deranged. You are literally creating a less safe environment for your own community with that mentality.

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Cobdain t1_j5w20kl wrote

Like I said earlier, you are entitled to your opinion. It’s not paranoia when people are getting shot in grocery stores, concerts, schools, and really almost anywhere. It’s not like I expect someone to attack me everywhere I go 🤪 your incessant comments on therapy are funny though. Clearly you see one, and clearly you don’t see one enough, you fly off the chain at Reddit opinion discussions. You are one of the main reasons why this country is so messed up. We got you on the left, and nutcases like MTG on the right. People have traipsed these lines for decades and gotten along with others of differing views. When you go all fire and brimstone because someone disagrees with you it shows how weak you are. Sorry buddy, you should probably go have that snickers now. Or, better yet Kendall can hand you a Pepsi 😜. Your level of toxic reaction is just as useful as that commercial was

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TheTowerBard t1_j5wn9sd wrote

Imagine being so deranged you’d compare folks who want people to have access to health care with psychopaths that blow up hybrid vehicles in tv ads when they’re not plotting to overthrow our government. But yeah, it’s them lefties who try to encourage you to be less afraid of the boogie man that are the issue.

You live in a very safe community. I’m sorry you live in constant fear.

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Cobdain t1_j5wrv7w wrote

I’m sorry you are so angry, I’m done going on about this with you. You are here to try and assert your opinion on people that won’t give you the rise you seek. Go back to playing your video games bud 🖖🏻

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joeydokes t1_j5vwqp2 wrote

Your choice of words, "far too many of you", "overcompensating", "living in a constant state of fear" ... clearly illustrates your opinion on firearms and those who own and use them. Your ignorance is showing through your condescension.

I, personally, don't make a habit of carrying; concealed or otherwise. But I do on occasion, and I also don't judge those who do; specially if I don't know their circumstances. Maybe it's a victim of DV, maybe a cop or security person, maybe .... WTF knows...

What I do know is that, like me, they likely take firearms as serious as cancer, train very regularly, follow the 4 rules like gospel, and will be the first to say "I'm retreating so I don't have to shoot and kill you" in the event of a confrontation.

Everyone I know who CC's is like that; very comfortable around firearms for the tool it is. I'm sure there are exceptions who match your bias but rare (or gangsta).

Because .... its Vermont (or NH, or ME); gun laws are loose because most all people are sensible. The statistics confirm that even if it has your panties all in a bunch.

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TheTowerBard t1_j5w04d9 wrote

If you are who you say you are then the suggested policies above should be no issue. You’re already doing all of those things if you’re a responsible gun owner. I am very specifically addressing the idiots that make it a part of their identity and/or actually feel afraid to leave the house without a gun. That’s deranged in modern society no matter where you live in this country. This basically boils down to “don’t be an idiot and try to avoid killing people if you can.”

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joeydokes t1_j5w2cnz wrote

Its not my concern whether to justify to you as responsible or not and its not your place to judge who are idiots, not.

Your attitude speaks volumes to your being very opinionated while understanding very little. "Deranged", "afraid" ... guns to not make up my identity; its just a small part of my everyday life.

I will not surrender a (legal) given right based on your perception of me, firearms in general, or whether society is more or less deranged than times past.

Deal with it; fix the societal issues that are causing the violence. Maybe learn more about guns; lots of people who otherwise would never own them are (r/liberalgunowners r/pinkpistols )

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TheTowerBard t1_j5wnjdm wrote

No one is asking you to surrender anything. Again, paranoia. This is where you guys always go with this stuff. Take some deep breaths and acknowledge life has a lot of nuance. A discussion about how we might make things safer does not equate to anyone taking your precious little guns from you. Sheesh.

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joeydokes t1_j5wp9h9 wrote

Your 2mo old, 0 karma account and your condescension aside, your ignorance is astonishing. Gun control laws on the table in other (liberal) States combined with the current ATF ruling on braces that's clear as mud is a clear indicator of how wrong you are. Sadly so.

Millions of people who legally and rightfully purchased firearms and who are abiding and no contributing factor to GV are, in fact, at risk of having to surrender them. You cannot overlook that truth, even if you want to preach public safety being the 'greater good'. Which in and of itself is debatable.

Go Sheesh youself.

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[deleted] t1_j5w896q wrote

[deleted]

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joeydokes t1_j5wflef wrote

> Things change. Deal with it.

There a 100m gun legal gun owners. They passed BG checks and they abide. Some hunt, some target shoot, some need them on their job, some are vets.... whatever. For decades now, they've been told "we're not coming for your guns". Yet, here we are; IL and similar are trying to pass some of the most restrictive gun laws that make owning a modern firearm (and obtaining the permits where obliged) nearly impossible. Like banning semi-automatic guns, cosmetics like their furniture ... ; despite the overwhelming evidence that it has no bearing on GV. Are firearms (part of) the problem? Sure, illegal guns, some loopholes in need of fixing maybe. But THE problem? Far from it.

Fix the income disparity, fix healthcare, fix the social safety net, then let's talk guns. One fact is indisputable: police and law enforcement will not protect you; they 'solve' crime not prevent it. Your safety is your responsibility; period.

Your feeling that 2A is outdated, that it costs you YOUR freedom, only shows your displaced trust in our broken systems; all its corruption notwithstanding.

We are a violent people, as a nation; what we do best are guns and drugs. Except up until recently they been generally aimed at points outside our borders (since we basically exterminated the natives). Trying to remove peoples' rightfully obtained guns is not the answer. Specially when those advocating controls have no interest in knowing the subject matter enough to discuss it.

More like (billionaire) Bloomberg funding Mom's demand.... as a front for disarming the public.

Just like coke flooding into LA ghettos (Iran-Contra), for one example, GV today is the crows coming home to roost. It's how the filthy rich keep people divided and down. No-knock warrants, Eminent Domain, Civil asset forfeiture, de-facto slavery alive and doing well in private prisons....

Something's gotta give. Disarming the public is where it usually starts.

Show me on the doll where the police beat you senseless

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1DollarOr1Million t1_j5vwc20 wrote

That’s not the point at all. It’s the fact that even in very safe places anything can happen. Mass shootings aren’t just in the major cities like the one in Orlando or Las Vegas. Aurora CO is a good example. None of you had ever heard of that town before or since. Unfortunately our little state could have a mass shooting at any time, in any place. The fact that it’s a safe place allows people to let down their guard and this makes it a bigger target. And I’ll be damned if I’m gonna be the dude that goes down with a fight or watches their loved ones die to some psycho just because “it’s a safe place we don’t need guns”. Fuck all that. I might even be the dude that saves your soft liberal ass as well. So I hope it never happens. I hope I never have to use a firearm against another human for any reason. But if it’s me or my loved ones, or other innocent folks, or some asshole that wants to murder innocent people, I’m pulling my firearm from my waist and emptying the fuckin clip.

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TheTowerBard t1_j5vxb8y wrote

Hey, remember that hero in Colorado who killed a mass shooter and then the cops showed up and killed the hero? Hey, remember the unarmed hero who disarmed the guy in CA last weekend and lived to tell the news about it and become a national hero?

The point is, the hero fantasy you guys have doesn’t always play out the way you expect. You literally just sent a long explanation showing you are paranoid and again, paranoid people should not be out and about with guns 🤷‍♂️

Not to mention the statistics that show that you and your family are far more likely to be accidentally injured or killed by your own guns than you are likely to ever use them for self-defense.

Guns don’t make us safer. They don’t make your family safer. Sorry if that hurts your fee fees.

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1DollarOr1Million t1_j5vz50m wrote

I understand that things don’t always go the way you want. You just have no way of knowing the exact situation you will be in. But I’d rather have a gun for another guy with a gun, than attempting to engage him by hand instead of (potentially) at range and from behind cover. The guy in LA got lucky, and the other guy had the misfortune of being in a town with shit cops. But also, if he hadn’t gotten shot by the cops he woulda been shot by the shooter anyway so it’s actually moot as regards your argument. Congrats, you played yourself.

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somedudevt t1_j5wox72 wrote

My man, I’d like to offer you the opportunity to try guns out. The thing about anti-gun people is they lack experience. I too was very anti-gun in my teens and early 20s. I was raised by a hunter, and tried it as a kid and it was not for me. I got to high-school right as Michael Moores movie was coming out, and I became opposed to guns as bad things bad people had. An interesting thing happened to me in my early 20s, I was given a shotgun that had belonged to my grandfather and father. I didn’t have a ton of interest in it, but since both had been dead since I was a little kid, I thought I would try to experience it as a way of connecting. So I went to a range and with a buddy we shot some clays.

There is something strange that you feel when you are at a shooting range, it’s that adrenaline, but in a controlled and safe environment. From that point I started collecting guns, at one point even getting a FFL. Over time I’ve stopped shooting due to cost and other priorities, but I still go 1-2 times a year, and every time I feel the joy. I have what I would assume is a fairly average collection of guns by gun owner standards with 8 assorted guns (plinked, duck gun, grandpas gun, hunting rifle I bought when I thought maybe adult me likes hunting NOPE, couple handguns, and then some international guns from Nam and ww2.)

I don’t actively carry out of fear or for any real tangible reason, but there is usually a pistol locked up in the truck, that depending on the day I may carry with me. It’s not really for any reason other than to be prepared. I’m not afraid in Vermont, though I have had a gun pulled on me by a drug dealer at a bar when I was younger. I carry, when I carry, because I have the right to carry.

I think that if you got some experience with firearms at a range trying out different ones you would change your tune on them. Not everyone is a nut job who carries. In fact I’d bet that of the Vermonters who carry the most common use of their carry firearm is to dispatch a wounded animal that’s been hit by a car after contacting a warden or state police barracks, which is the only time I know of any of my friends using theirs outside of range days.

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TheTowerBard t1_j5wv77a wrote

My dude, I grew up in VT. I have plenty of experience with guns, unfortunately.

Listen, I know my experience is anecdotal, but I lost two friends to accidental discharges before I was old enough to drive (no, I was not present for either). Both families were very responsible gun owners. Hunting families. Again, this was in VT. I promise nothing will sway my opinion of guns.

And yes, I grew up in a house with a gun. One. A shotgun supposedly for defense or to scare of a bear or something. The only time it ever got used was for skeet shooting. Then eventually my dad sold it. Never told me why and I didn’t ask. It only came up because I had kids of my own and didn’t want them snooping through grandpa’s closet and finding it.

Now, I do have a pretty gnarly sword collection though that was passed down to me from MY grandfather. He never touched a gun after WWII, but somehow collected about 20 swords in his travels during the war and kept collecting after.

Also my dude, the thing you like is adrenaline, not guns. Try some sword training if you want a good time in that department. Shooting a gun is too easy. You got to mix that adrenaline with some action and a pinch of pain for the best high.

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somedudevt t1_j5wvtln wrote

I can tell you for free that a sword isn’t gonna stop the fascists when they knock on the door. I’d rather defend my castle from them with my collection of Russian nazi killers, complete with baynets for your sword stuff haha.

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TheTowerBard t1_j5ww6u4 wrote

I got a couple bayonets if you need to borrow one.

Anyway, that’s not gonna happen and again, your comment returns us to the issue of paranoia…

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somedudevt t1_j5wx4dt wrote

Were you under a rock on January 6th? Have you not met any of the fine folks who serve in our armed forces and police forces (many are great, but there are a LOT of well trained whack jobs with heavy artillery.)

I hope to fuck that shit doesn’t hit the fan. But as a person who plays the markets a lot, call owning guns and learning to use them a hedge. My main line of betting is that it won’t happen, so I spend most of my time and resources on fun stuff. But if I see a deal on ammo for a gun I own I grab a case. If I see a good deal on a gun I think would complement the collection I grab it. I take each to the range 2 times a year to practice, and I have them strategically around my residence.

Call it paranoid, I call it prepared and a hedge on my bet that the world is roses and sunshine. A cheap hedge at that. Costs me under $500 a year, and what I own is worth more than I’ve paid for it.

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somedudevt t1_j5wx1r0 wrote

Were you under a rock on January 6th? Have you not met any of the fine folks who serve in our armed forces and police forces (many are great, but there are a LOT of well trained whack jobs with heavy artillery.

I hope to fuck that shit doesn’t hit the fan. But as a person who plays the markets a lot, call owning guns and learning to use them a hedge. My main line of betting is that it won’t happen, so I spend most of my time and resources on fun stuff. But if I see a deal on ammo for a gun I own I grab a case. If I see a good deal on a gun I think would complement the collection I grab it. I take each to the range 2 times a year to practice, and I have them strategically around my residence.

Call it paranoid, I call it prepared and a hedge on my bet that the world is roses and sunshine. A cheap hedge at that. Costs me under $500 a year, and what I own is worth more than I’ve paid for it.

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TheTowerBard t1_j5wzghk wrote

Ah, I read you wrong. Apologies. You’re one of the rare ones whose concerns are actually somewhat grounded in reality. I salute you.

The issue is, we will never see a modern civil war or major conflict here between citizens. No one is coming to your door. What is happening, and what will continue to happen, are isolated domestic terrorist incidents.

And when it comes to defending ourselves from our local military forces… er, uh… police, it’s just not going to happen. That’s why we need to completely rework our approach to policing (which isn’t happening).

The issue I see, and a big part of the reason I feel the way I do about guns is because of the cycle of violence we are stuck in. My sword may not do much against your gun, but your gun isn’t going to do much against a police force, which isn’t going to much against… It’s just ever escalating violence.

We need nonviolent solutions to our problems. Solving them with violence only creates new issues.

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somedudevt t1_j5x0x9t wrote

To say that there won’t be some sort of event in our lifetimes is hopeful. But I’d guess that in 1910 most people in Europe didn’t expect the next 35 years to go the way they did. I’d bet in 1830 people weren’t thinking to themselves “gah lee it’d be nice to shoot eachother in 30 years”

The military industrial complex is a thing, it is an issue, no refuting that. On the hole the world needs less violence. It needs more peace. I don’t disagree.

But my location on the spectrum of peace is if the asshole down the road with a trump flag and a confederate flag has a gun, I’m not gonna hope he misses. I have no plan to ever use a gun on a person. Or really anything other than some clays. But if there is even an infinitesimal chance that the fascists will feel froggy. I want to be ready to hit them in their leap.

And in the mean time the guns are fun as fuck to shoot, they are better than real estate for value growth, and they have no upkeep cost. It just seems like a no brainer to be prepared as a just in case.

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TheTowerBard t1_j5x2yyp wrote

I didn’t say there wouldn’t be an event, but there will not be a war on American soil. War is only really profitable if we do it somewhere else. There will be MANY isolated events though, unfortunately. It’s very unlikely any of them will be in VT as well.

Please keep in mind that even though those chuds are dumb and violent, they are an extreme minority of our population. The extreme majority of us just want to maintain the status quo (unfortunately, imo). They like to pound their chest and act tough, but they’re not. They are VERY outnumbered and they know it. The only thing they have going for them is the fact that most people are distracted and nonviolent. The only reason that element has so much pull in politics is because our capitalist society keeps everyone too busy to pay attention to what’s going on. We can’t catch up on the news on the weekends either navies sportball is happening. The majority of Americans do not agree with the things the far right believes, but they just aren’t paying attention. It’s appalling how few people actually vote.

And yeah, I hear you. Dude not far from me has a “spay and neuter all liberals” banner on his house. Not sure how calling for genocide isn’t hate speech but here we are. That said, there’s about 20 BLM and Pride flags for every Trump flag in my neighborhood. Those chuds ain’t doing shit.

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