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I'm not BIPOC, so I can't speak to it on a personal level, but as someone who works in a school, the schools here do tend to care about racial equity and anti-racism: my district has been doing anti-racism trainings and has an anti-racism task force. The Burlington/Winooski area is by far the most racially diverse part of the state. Chances are if you stick to the more progressive areas, most people will be decent. If you go more rural/northern, racism might increase (I've heard not-so-great things about Enosburg). It's tough because the state is just so white that not a lot of people here have many interactions with the BIPOC population, so it's easier to Other them. I remember in high school being really intrigued by minority populations and really excited to see so many of them when I moved out of state for college. I very much grew up in a little Vermont bubble, and I'm certainly not alone.

As the mother of a biracial teenage daughter, I do not recommend South Burlington.

Unfortunately most of us on this subreddit are white so we aren’t the best people to gauge racism in Vermont. I’ve heard complaints from black and biracial friends who live here, mostly about bullying not being adequately addressed in schools and adults being treated as if they don’t belong. But areas like Burlington are very progressive with people who appreciate and encourage diversity.

Your biggest issue will be finding housing. If you’re buying I would start looking now. There’s a severe housing shortage statewide. Internet coverage can be spotty so I would ask a Realtor to guide you toward places with good coverage.

This PBS doc called “I’m From Here” might offer some insight. VT is full of a lot of very welcoming people, but also a lot of folks a little further to the extreme right unfortunately. VT gets away with its reputation simply because of the severe lack of diversity in the state. Meaning, the racists don’t have a whole lot of folks to be racist to. Many don’t hide their ignorance, but they are certainly the minority. Just avoid the north east part of the state. Killington area is great, but there is one psycho along route 4 there with a confederate flag flying outside what was once upon a time a very beautiful home.

https://www.pbs.org/video/i-am-from-here-zfk9gb/

If you don’t recommend S. Burlington, then I’d assume nowhere in Vermont is safe 🤷‍♂️

A lot of the upper valley had great fiber optic internet thru vtel thanks to its proximity to Dartmouth. It’s not too too far from killington

Unfortunately, racism is very much alive and well in VT. Parent of a bi-racial child who went through Burlington Public School system here, and it was not a pleasant experience. It was stunning how racist a few teachers were, as well as school administrators. It was endemic in the system. Microcosm of the macrocosm.

If you have to live near Killington your living options are very limited. Rutland is the biggest community. There are lots of tiny towns that might feel very isolated. As for racism I'm not sure.

The north part of the state, essentially franklin county, is the worst in this regard. Things are much more diverse near/in burlington.

To amplify this post a bit, EC Fiber is pretty well built out in the areas from White River Junction up I-89 to the Randolph area. There's a great map of coverage on their website. Royalton/Bethel/Stockbridge would put you not too far from Killington and would be in the EC Fiber coverage area (and it's awesome Internet).

I think you'll find the racism here in Vermont is a lot more...microaggression than overt bullying type things. We are a largely white area (esp in the wealthy white Killington area) but consider ourselves "better" than racism. Which, of course, we are not. So your child is less likely to have kids shouting at her with the hard r and more likely to have randos touching her hair or saying things like "You speak so well." as if it's a compliment.

I don't know a ton about the schools down there. I went to one not far from there but the high school has since closed. I think that area of the state has schools that are either not great (Rutland, very recently still fighting over racist mascot) or very wealthy and likely to be...difficult for a newcomer.

As others have mentioned the Burlington area is much more diverse but you're not gonna want to be commuting to Killington for work from here.

My wife is Asian and we've had extremely few issues. I can't speak for the handful of black folks who live in our little town in the central part of the state, and I don't happen to know them well other than to wave at the ones who are our neighbors down the street, but they seem to be loved and respected by many locals as far as I can tell.

While it is a progressive state, it’s still the second whitest state in the US. Mostly it’ll be fine, but expect some microaggressions and kids being cruel.

Interracial couple with black/biracial kids here - we’re newer and in Burlington but I have to say in our experience the schools have been way more on top of things than in the very diverse, liberal state we moved from. Obviously others have had different experiences, but it was something I worried a lot about before moving and have been very pleasantly surprised so far.

That’s good to hear. Do you feel like you’re accepted in the community?

Also feel free to DM me if you want to connect! It was very helpful to us to be able to talk to other BIPOC families when we were thinking about moving.

Thanks for all of the responses. Lots to think about. We are excited for the move and the opportunities is wonderful, but we also want to have a sense of community and belonging. I most of all don’t want my husband or children to experience danger to their lives. Thanks for all the input!

White half of an interracial couple in Chittenden County. Have had white dudes talk to me with slurs as if I'm one of the boys and when I call them out and mention my wife is a minority, I get, "Oh no, not her. She's one of the good ones." 🙄

Having grown up in both NYC and the south, it's much closer to NYC here as in I haven't had to beat any racists down with a bat yet.

Seems like every week a school in Franklin County is getting in trouble for parents/players yelling racial epithets at Winooski kids. It's heartbreaking.

Fellow ex-Michigander. Moved here two years ago. We settled on Essex Town because of the schools and proximity to everything. Vermont is very white, but not northern Michigan kind of white. Our little neighbor is a melting pot. I think it is because it is the "old IBM neighborhood ". Lots of biracial coupes, LGBT couples, and immigrants. I would check out the Essex area. I'm a white dude, so maybe I am missing something. Hope this helps!

I will! Thanks so much 😇

We’re you present for this? This was an elaborated story that was never confirmed. The situation went both way but Franklin county kids took the blame.

As a POC, I feel like you would be dumb and doing your kids a disservice to raise them in Vermont.

I've no first hand experience. I suggest taking a close look at Rutland. It is a reasonable commute to Killington even in the winter. It has internet. It has some Bipoc. It has some housing.

Due to extreme housing shortage in most of the state, your choices will be extremely limited.

WRT prejudice. It speaks well of the state that a lot of people here honestly admit that prejudice is real, that they hold some, that they make mistakes, and that they are trying to not be prejudiced. This is much better than people who insist that we live in a race and gender blind culture (we have people like that here too). One root of the problem in Vermont is that so many people have so very little interaction with BIPOC. Welcome! Your moving to Vermont may be part of what moves Vermont forward.

I am Black. Racism has been a serious problem in many areas of the state. Really a mess as to how students and sometimes adults have been treated. And what happened with Rep. Kiah Morris was unconscionable. Look, I love Vermont but I would be very concerned about my kids if I were you. Vermont Professionals of Color is a useful organization. Also feel free to PM me.

Can you elaborate as to why? My husband is black and the one coordinating the move due to a really good promotion. So I am trying to look at the bright side of the situation. I’m hoping it’s not a disservice to them.

I will shoot you a message! I definitely would like another perspective.

This is the most fucked up ‘Yes or no, have you stopped beating your wife?’ question ever.

What do you mean? Can you elaborate?

Essex makes no sense. The husband got a job in Killington. It would be 2 hours each way to go to work.

Essex makes no sense. The husband got a job in Killington. It would be 2 hours each way to go to work.

Really? Now you’re just trolling.

I think it’s kinda tricky around here. I’m white so take all of this with a grain of salt. Everyone in my circles would love to see this state become more racially diverse but it’s hard for a couple reasons: Firstly we’re basically tied with Maine for being the whitest state in the country. And while many people are well meaning/liberal they tend to be in cities and more egalitarian in theory than practice (mostly because they have so few interactions with people of color, and especially black people). Also this just means that finding any non-white community may be quite difficult. Secondly, outside of towns it can get pretty bad pretty quickly. A lot of maga, blue stripe flags, but also things like a school board preventing the students from being able to hang a blm flag or a pride flag officially. There is an ongoing aclu lawsuit against a school district for racial harassment (from memory there were students seig heil-img, and using racial epithets) My part of the state is also adjacent to NH which I think is decidedly worse in most of these respects. But our school district is notably more diverse and welcoming.

Also I’d be wary about Killington. May be able to make good money but, it’ll be pretty short term (ski season goes through may maybe?) I don’t know what summers look like there but I’d recommend finding out before it comes up. A lot of our support programs are fairly good, but it’s not the best place to find a job, especially not one with a good enough pay to afford to find housing around here. It’s a bad situation. In my town there’s like 1-2 rentals listed per month, because the majority of spots become short term rentals or are just overwhelmed by demand. If you’re trying to buy a property you’re competing with New Yorkers and Connecticuters who just have much more money than can be competed with mostly.

Hi. I might be late to the game. Full disclosure I’m a white middle class beardy guy with an English accent, so as white as they come.

I for one would welcome you and your family to Vermont, I have zero tolerance for racism and neither does my friend group who stretch from downtown Burlington to the NEK. Does that mean there are not ass hats? No, sadly not, they are ubiquitous and to be found under any slime covered rock (sorry slime, you serve a vital purpose in the ecosystem, unlike racists).

If you do move here let me know and maybe you and your family can meet up with me and my wife and grab a bite to eat/coffee?

No I legit am not understanding you? I’m responding to other comments to gain clarity lol

I’m just not understanding the issue with my question I guess and that could be on me, but can you explain?

Lots of folks are overlooking geography. Killington is in Rutland County, and is also near Woodstock and the Upper Valley. Everyone giving you advice about Chittenden county is not especially helpful; it would be about a 2 hour commute for your husband if you lived there. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to do that. I can’t answer the question you’ve asked, but you may want to narrow your focus to areas where it makes sense for your family to live.

A lot of the racism in Vermont is of the “I didn’t mean to do it so it’s like I didn’t do it” variety.

Kids get taught to accept diverse cultures and backgrounds but they’re also very sheltered so they say dumb shit all the time.

This past weekend I rode up a chairlift with a little kid (at ski school’s request) and the kid, who was being nice and trying to ask about my life, asked me if I had to learn a language to move to the US. Kiddo, why would you think I moved here, I was born in New England. He also told me he has never left Vermont, so…yeah.

Thank you! He actually has a job lined up already. His friend is the executive chef at a ski resort and is hiring him to be a chef under him. The only reason we are moving is because it’s three times his salary.

I luckily work from home already so I can work from anywhere with internet.

Thanks a lot for your perspective and advice :)

Of course! Best of luck! It’s a beautiful little state and a great place to live and have kids. Something else worth mentioning is that this state is one of the few that I know that decides school funding at a state level, so the quality of a school is to a small extent more decoupled from the amount of property taxes that municipality collects.

That is good to know! Thank you so much for your insight.

Thanks so much!! I sent you a DM! It would be great to connect

I can’t speak to the schools but I live in Proctor just outside Rutland and in the three years I’ve been here I’ve noticed a definite uptick in the number of POCs, particularly black folk. So I think it’s getting more diverse, but compared to Michigan, that’s not saying much.

I’m white, so I can’t speak to the experience of black folks here either but I can say that while I’ve run into a lot of unfamiliarity with people of color (and resulting ignorance) I haven’t heard much in the way of disrespect or contempt.

You will, however, see too many “Trump 2024” signs and a pretty hefty sprinkling of confederate flags. So it’s a pretty mixed bag.

Rutland is the biggest town near Killington. It has a rough reputation but honestly it's a great town with a lot to offer.

As others have said, Vermont is very white and sadly racism and classism is prevalent, but I know many Vermonters who are actively trying to fight that, so at least there's that...

I overlooked the Killington part somehow. Yeah, that would be a bad drive.

Thank you- realistically they are probably looking at living in towns that are served by Rutland HS, West Rutland, Mill River HS, the HS in Bethel, Woodstock HS or Otter Valley HS in Brandon. Or they could opt to send their kids to Killington Mountain School or the private Catholic HS in Rutland. Rutland is the largest community near Killington, and many of the other towns surrounding Killington can feel isolated and lacking of amenities. As you continue to explore your options moving to Vt focus on those areas, otherwise your husband commute will be quite long.

Bethel no longer has a high school. It merged with South Royalton. Which could also be a good location for the family, although housing is likely impossible there.

If they want to go south a little they could look to be somewhere so the kids could go to BBA. Might as well get the best education they can.

Depends on what class you and your child are surrounded by if I’m going to be honest. Poor white people are poor white people everywhere.

Yeah our next door neighbor now has a Trump 2024 flag flying so we’re used to seeing them 😂 thanks so much for the insight!

You'll be fine if you go to socialist areas like Burlington. Just kidding but honestly Vermont doesn't seem too bad in terms of racism. But again 90% of the state is white so I'm not sure. NH has it a lot worse tho

From what I’m gathering, Burlington seems too far from Killington! So we have to go a little more south

Did it not happen or was it a "both sides" scenario? In either case, trying to play "both sides" on that kind of thing is a bit gauche.

There’s a reason why this state is one of the least diverse states in the country.

Vermont’s reputation as a liberal haven is a facade. I say this as a mixed woman of color who grew up here. Someone in this thread mentioned Kiah Morris’s experience, which you should look into as an example of life here. Personally, after reading coverage of how VT schools and the principals’ association mishandled racism and homophobia and transphobia occurring in schools, I had a moment when I told myself I would think realllyyyy hard about raising children in Vermont. You will need to be prepared to fight hard for your kids and expect your adult peers in your community to be overtly racist and to use schools and curricula to showcase their bigotry. I will say that it was exhausting to be a “token student” and I went to BHS, where there were more students of color than in other schools in the state. It was exhausting to exist in a school culture that isn’t trauma informed and to fight to be recognized as human. I made it, but I also realized that I made myself smaller so I’d be more appealing.

I explained in my response. Only someone who was trolling would ‘not understand’.

Okay then I guess I’m trolling cuz I have no idea what you meant by your first response 🥴 oh well

Thank you for this insight. I appreciate your perspective and experience. Thank you for sharing it with me ❤️

I think this fella got a bit scrambled from inhaling too much tear gas on 1/6/21.

The lefties are the ones that make everything about race

I think despite everything, I turned out okay. Kids are resilient and Vermont has lots of other amazing things to offer. We endured a lot, but I feel like I’d mourn if I had to leave. My hope is that future generations will hold onto the community spirit and let go of the xenophobia.

Stay out of Rutland and the northeast part of the state.

I hope you don’t worry too much about this redditor, he’s one of those people who thinks racism is almost always overblown and when someone says something racist it’s “dumb” only…

Yeah it’s nuts in the Upper Valley

My dad was a professor at Dartmouth for 20 odd years and he knew the guy who started EC fiber. The guy offered my family either free or heavily discounted ec fiber for like a 2000ish dollar investment. We didn’t take up the offer, my mom is pretty anti-computer and didn’t want to indulge my brother and dad with good internet. I was so mad lol.

🙄

I think you will find that most Vermonters will bend themselves AND their neighbors over backwards to make you feel comfortable here. There are some areas of the state where folks have not had much experience around POC so the language will be full of the accidentally racist kind of things that brings, trying to correct them is a coin flip on how it will go.

That situation had nothing to do with race. A bunch of kids were playing sports and the game was physical, leading to frustration. Not everything is the race game.

There are plenty of businesses in Franklin county with people from different backgrounds where these kids frequent and are kind and respectful. Among other examples.

Sometimes kids are just arguing over a game. As any child will do.

I’m Hispanic and lived in Rutland and Castleton for 4 years. I live in Alaska now. I found it relatively peaceful and accepting in both areas. The NEK (Derby..etc) was extremely unwelcoming and hateful…and other parts (Hartland, Manchester, Killington, St Johnsbury, Woodstock, Pittsford, Wallingford, Middlebury) all gave off the vibe of “we don’t see much diversity here, but we are curious and ready to welcome it” (albeit with microaggressions and missteps along the way). Burlington just feels like a vagrant space. Beautiful, constantly shifting tides with college students and population turnover. Accepting, but less in a way that is easy to form community and more in a neoliberal way.

You’ll be safe there, just avoid the NEK. There’s good people everywhere though.

Hello and welcome. I’m quite white so it’s hard for me to say how the racism is around here but people mostly seem pretty accepting of others. Internet around killington is served pretty well by EC fiber which is great. Rutland will be your closest “city” which is where you’d likely go for groceries and other errands. You’re moving to a ski area so housing will be tough to find long term and be expensive. I mostly wanted to touch on working at killington. Make sure your husbands friend isn’t pulling his leg about work all year. It’s crazy busy now and restaurants need the help but it does slow down A LOT during the spring, summer and fall. Make sure you live close to killington because he will be expected to drive up to work in the worst of weather, it’s busiest when it snows and the tourists drive like animals.

So because they say please and thank you when they order an ice cream, they couldn’t be racist when tempers fly?

Edit: you saying “kids will be kids” just goes to reduce your credibility further..

If you work in killington it’s pretty hard to avoid Rutland. It’s the most affordable and it’s the closest grocery store.

100%. But, as people have pointed out, geography matters. Will you be able to visit before moving?

I second this! I’m biracial and I grew up in central Vermont. I only had a few kids call me the n word in school (literally maybe 2 or 3) and while I definitely experience micro aggressions, I internalized it and was really impacted until I was an adult and realized how unfair my treatment was.

My advice to you is that your kids will likely experience microaggressions where ever they go. You have to set them up for success and teach them what to tolerate and what to not tolerate, and how to safely and appropriately stand up for themselves. Truth be told, I’m not condoning violence but I think a lot of the folks who treated me poorly could’ve been easily corrected with a punch or two (and one was! Never had trouble with that kid again).

I know they’re both a bit of a jump from Rutland/Killington, but Putney area and Burlington area have both been very tolerant for me. As for the Rutland area, we’ll that’s sort of where I grew up. I watched a darker completed family get bullied right out of my school once so if you have any personal questions you want to ask, please feel free to dm me. For reference, I am 24F, moms white, dads very dark, and I am black enough to notice but white enough to be tolerated most places.

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Read something the other day about Hinesburg fans shouting racial slurs at the Milton HS basketball team. Think Hinesburg suspended all fans from games for a bit.

But yeah, I hear a lot of that disfusting crap is directed at Winooski teams. Wtf. These are kids. And even if they weren't.

This is the truth. Downvote all you want, but racism exists at the intersection in the social ladder where jim bob sees his black neighbor as a threat to his social status. Historically that is at the lower ends of the socio-economic ladder (obviously southern slavery was a different game wealthy aristocracy perpetuating racism purely for financial gain) if you look at the battle for social standing as america grew it was normally some white immigrant community battling the black community for status. Look at the Irish, and the Italians. Over time this has transitioned into a battle between poor whites who have done worse than their parents and fear falling out of the middle class and POC who are doing better than their parents and rising into the middle class. The poor whites become virulent racists to maintain their status on the social ladder. Unfortunately for our country, the poor whites make up a greater and more unified voting block than the groups they oppose and show up at the polls, so we get regressive policies and states like Florida.

Depends on the day. Check channel 3 for daily forecasts

Not at all what I am trying to say.

Say you see a child treat all people with kindness and respect. They play in a sports game against kids and there’s some rough play going from both sides of the game. That same kid and their peers is then being drug through the mud because maybe, a spectator said something unkind.

Don’t get me wrong, there is no room for racism. But if you watched the situation unfold, Winooski player head butted a kid knocking him out. Would you be happy if someone did this to you regardless of their skin color? Should we tiptoe around being angry because we are different races? Why not be our genuine selves to each other while also understanding that people of color have a history of being treated unfairly. Genuinely making efforts to break the system that is treating folks unfairly.

OP- point of this post was to explain that Franklin county (with the exception of Saint albans) is a lot of simple folks that get a bad wrap. I’m 100% sure there are people who have racist mindsets, wether on a micro aggression scale or not there’s no room for it. The vast majority of people here will lend you a hand when you’re down, pull you out of a ditch if you’re stuck, and tell you you’re being a jerk if you’re being a jerk. The authenticity is unmatched. This leaves space for others, for example a person of color to call us out if we are not being inclusive and informed. Best of luck in your journey to find a great spot for your family! Franklin county is inexpensive, and full of charm. If you can manage to come in without making accusations and with a genuine approach to becoming a community member you will thrive!

Can’t really narrow it down for you because good schools are Everywhere.

Internet: varies, even within each town there are places with and places without. Chose a house/rental accordingly.

More racially friendly? The whole Killington area. See the blue counties on any 2020 voting map.

Map: https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/vermont/

My husband and I are an inter-racial couple. I am Asian. We are in southern Vermont. We’ve been here a little over a year and moved from the South. I feel that racism is more in your face in the South where here you have to peel away layers before you see it. I agree with all of those about micro aggressions. My daughter looks more like me and has experienced a few things in school but nothing violent. I am experiencing more ignorance and micro aggression in the parent community of the school. I still don’t regret moving. Plenty of people who aren’t like what I mentioned. I wish you all the best!

Vermont school sports is notorious for bringing out the worst racism in people (see any of the many incidents this year, in recent years).

I’ve heard that Woodstock is a decent, accepting place, but can’t speak to it myself.

This. ⬆️ Seems to be worse for Black women. I’m white and grew up here. Never thought there was much racism until I lived in the Southeast (FL, GA, AL). The good news is that there are definitely more POC living here than there were when I left. Somebody advised that you avoid the NEK and I agree; it’s pretty much Maga land.

As far as schools go, get involved. Like others have pointed out, it’s mostly microaggressive, ignorant BS. But overt racism exists. And like everywhere else in the US, cops stop way more POC than they should. But they don’t kill them.

I hope they are paying him a lot because the cost of living here is rather high and often times people who move for work get caught off guard. Also your biggest struggle may be actually finding somewhere acceptable to live. I've seen many people accept job offers only to search for housing for months only to have to sacrifice the offer and not move. Also the Rutland area is going to be way not as fun to live in compared to the Chittenden area so there's that too

I would be more worried about the anti Michigan crowd. They meet every wednesday on the town green

There is not diversity in Vermont outside of Burlington, and it’s incredibly limited in Burlington. Anyone who claims there is diversity in VT likely has not lived out of the state. It is a bubble.

Rutland could be difficult socially. Lots of folks stuck in the 1950s there politically and socially. It’s very low cost though. One of the few (very, very small) cities in the northeast you can still purchase a home for under $200k.

If you want a magical place to raise kids kinda close to Killington, try Manchester. Lots of very wealthy people from larger cities are there, but you can still find a decent house for under 500k. It’s about an hour and ten away from the mountain.

I experienced plenty of racism here while in a biracial relationship. A lot of people here are pretty great though.

He’s going down first to stay with his friend who offered him the job and then the family will join a few months after, but luckily I work from home and make almost 6 figures alone.

I’ll join them lol 😂

Thanks! This is something I made sure to have him confirm because people keep mentioning ski season and I’m like “oh do they close?” Lol so thank you for that!! And we are hopefully looking for something outside of killington that he can travel into. He’s willing to drive up to an hour for a commute so that opens up some options.

Yes, he’ll actually be there for a few months before the rest of the family even comes down

Oh awesome that sounds like an ideal situation! You and your family will be just fine, IMO, though I am not black though I am a mentor to someone who was born in Kenya who immigrated here as a child. Winooski has the highest population of POC in the state and Winooski school is probably the only school in the state that isn't mostly white. Winooski is quote far from Rutland though and I don't know much about that area.

Thank you!! That helps a lot. It’s been quite the journey to try to map out the best places. Appreciate your help!

I see a few people recommending the Upper Valley and I would like to jump on that band wagon. I do think you should know how school choice works in Vermont, especially the Upper Valley. If you live in a town that doesn’t have a designated public school you have school choice and your town of residence pays the tuition for the school you choose. Even independent schools like The Sharon Academy. Worth keeping in mind as you make your housing decision. Killington is a school choice town, as is Stockbridge and Rochester (for grades 7-12).

Edit: Killington no longer has choice. Their students attend Woodstock schools

My family lives in Barnard. Good elementary school that moves into the Woodstock district for middle and high school, fast ec fiber internet, not terribly far from Killington or the Upper Valley. We have local family here that are black and biracial and in-laws/friends from Haiti that are here often. Demographics are heavily white in the area, and the whole state, but attitudes appear to be mostly welcoming. I suspect you'll experience less overt racism from actual bigots and more accidental stereotyping from people who are well intentioned but inexperienced with diversity. To my knowledge my black family members in town haven't had any bad experiences, and they aren't the only non-white people in town by any means.

Thank you!!! This helps a lot :)

The mountain is open year round and is gaining popularity in the warm months for mountain biking, but is still nothing compared to winter months. A large portion of the restaurants close down come spring time. A word of caution about the up to an hour drive, that easily becomes 2-3 hours during winter driving conditions. Just something to consider. North of killington is probably where the more affordable housing is, but you’ll be an hour from grocery stores

Yes I can already tell driving in Vermont is going to be similar to Michigan…probably with less traffic. But unfortunately the only option is to drive in. I make decent money but not “I can live in Killington” money lol 😂

You could also consider middlebury.

Oh yea? What’s the reason?

Thank you!! I will definitely be reaching out to you!

Can you tell me what the NEK is? I keep seeing people mention it. Where does it include?

Woodstock, Pomfret, Hartland.

I'm also new to Vermont and white so I don't know how much insight I have for you. Re: internet, there's always satellite, but take care because somehow I moved into one of the areas where only a couple companies service. It's worth plugging addresses into providers' websites and using the state internet maps as you look for somewhere to live. Congratulations on your next adventure!

If you end up near Rutland and ever feel like you need a friendly ear or a cup of sugar, let me know. I was born in Ohio but have no beef with Michiganders!

Haha I promise I don’t hold onto the Michigan vs Ohio rivalry lol 😂 thanks so much!!

its actually called a farmers market in the summer. Cunning group of anti Michiganers

Lifelong Vermonter who working for the airline industry has been all over the world, there are racist/ignorant people everywhere but in Vermont I find people excepting people's individuality in race, sex and creed. We welcome everyone including you and your husband.

Lol! I love a good farmers market. I’m glad that the communities have them.

This is very comforting, thank you :)

Don't know, just speaking from my own experience here. Curious why you would say that- have you not heard about the football field/n word 'incident'?

North East Kingdom

Ohhhh thank you. I just assume that’s the NorthEast part of the state then?

I know... the people telling the racist scum to not be be racist scum are definitely the issue and not the racist scum.

Thanks for modeling how racism is alive and well in Vermont though.

The Northeast Kingdom...basically the upper northeast part of the state. I consider roughly everything north and east of Montpelier to be the NEK; Newport and St. Johnsbury are the two big towns of that region. Beautiful area, and lots of good people there, but also a lot of fairly poor, rural folk that are pretty insular. Very much like parts of Appalachia.

You might consider Randolph (exit 4 off the 89) which is in the center of the state. The HS isn't great, but the elementary school is pretty fantastic. It would be about a 45 minute commute to Killington. I do hope you make the move - Vermont will welcome you.

We are making it regardless because there’s not an option to not! But after making this thread, we definitely feel better about moving out and the parts to avoid.

I'm not entirely sure if this is helpful but here in Saint Albans, atleast in my sons class, theres no issues I've ever seen or heard of. Granted my sons only in 3rd grade. But his school did a big rally last year about treating everyone the same and we're all the same no matter skin color with the BLM flag. Many schools are doing the same.

BUT there was a story on the news the other day where there were racist insults used at a game, Milton vs Fairfax. It was a "fan" who did it but considering its Milton I'm not surprised. Most of the towns with racism aren't popular destinations, and from the last 15 or so years it's been weeded out for the majority, so I'd think Killington would be a great area to bring your family!

I am biracial and was born and grew up in central Vermont (Strafford, VT) and just graduated college. I had fine experiences in all my schooling in Vermont. Certainly some micro aggressions and rude jokes and such but nothing extreme, the kind of things and are unfortunately unavoidable. I grew up in an extremely small town and went to elementary school with the same 15 kids for all 9 years, I felt like I was always treated for who I was and never stereotyped, because of the strong community and the fact that everyone had to know me very well. Vermont is certainly not diverse and I feel like I missed that at times, but it also felt very safe. My experience was always kind well meaning people who treated me well.

For what it's worth, and for informational purposes, you might look into the Strafford area. They still have their own Elementary School, it's close to Dartmouth (offering a variety of cultural advantages), and you have school choice. You could send your kids to Thetford Academy, The Sharon Academy or the Hanover High School (for High School). Our own kids chose to go to TSA. I haven't read through all the comments, but Strafford is an hour's drive from Killington (on a good day with the wind at your back).

>One root of the problem in Vermont is that so many people have so very little interaction with BIPOC

As a lifelong vermonter this is a huge part of the problem. The result is well intended people being overtly racist without realizing what they are doing. It's like they see BIPOC and HAVE to act different to prove how not racist they are. And in the end they are basically just being racist.

For instance my grandmother is a pretty open minded person, would never intentionally be overtly racist, loves her BIPOC neighbors, but every time she meets someone with a skin tone slightly darker than hers she just HAS to ask "where are you from!?" - and when they so "oh, Michigan!" she goes "but, like originally?" and understandably people are like "uhhh I mean my ancestors were brought here as slaves, so...."

So i see a lot of that. Racism wrapped in kindness and ignorance.

Unless I'm really misunderstanding something, this is not Burlington VT.

I think it's pretty easily the most liberal AND diverse portion of the state.

I think if you spent time in the NEK, Rutland area, or Southern Vermont, you'd probably have a pretty good idea what I'm speaking on.

I see more confederate flags in Southern VT than I saw in Tennessee. During the BLM protests, we ended up getting into it with some of these D-Bags in the Rutland area. I also teach in SVT and have had students of color face racism in a number of forms and have gone toe to toe with the idiot white nationalist in Bennington. I went to a small college in Rutland and saw my friends get accused of "dealing drugs," because black folks "couldn't/didn't live in this area if they weren't dealing." We had the same "N word" situation at a soccer team, but the principal of the school in the Rutland Area basically told them there wasn't enough evidence to do anything.

This is just what I've seen as a white dude who transplanted here in like '07. That event in S. Burlington was terrible, but I think the school system did a pretty decent job at handling it. They can always improve, but they've been actually policing these things.

This is actually Burlington, Wisconsin - not Vermont. Burlington is south east of Milwaukee and not far after crossing into WI from IL.

Thanks for your insight. I really have not spent any time in southern VT in all the years I have lived here. Definitely not surprised anyone would bring up the NEK...

As for SB, I was part of a group that was put together by concerned parents/teachers called SB Educational Equity Collective (they're still around and kickin'- attending school board meetings and doing what they can) to try to figure out what could be done about the environment at the school because we all were so disappointed in how the school 'handled' various situations. So, no, they may look like they care to outsiders, but they don't really seem into putting action behind words. And it's not only racism; my daughter was being harassed by some boys in middle school and the principal told me that if it continued, he would place my daughter in a new class. Not the boys, of course. It's a toxic school district and I thought we'd be in the clear since, as you said, it's so liberal and diverse.

On another note, I also lived in the south- Louisiana- for a couple of years when my daughter was in elementary school. She never once came home from school and told me about any racism she experienced in her day. Not that you could pay me to move to the south again, but if I could do it all over, I would not have put her in this school.

This school choice issue is a biggie to keep in mind!

2 hours in the summer. F that drive in the winter

wow VT is gonna get crowded soon.

yep i voted this down, because you should research places before taking a job there, and that you make moving to another state an issue of race. it's obnoxious and wreaks of troll behavior. congrats to your husband btw! is all of VT racist? I never laughed so hard ever in my life!

Exactly. The stretch between killington and 89 feels like it takes forever, and then it’s another hour at least. The job sounds great but not at all worth that horrible commute.

Castleton might be a good fit. It's a college town and has more diversity than some of the other areas. It's right off of 4, a pretty direct route to Killington and about 15 minutes from Rutland so you still get that small VT village feel but you're still close to a "bigger" city

Driving in Vermont is VERY different than driving in Michigan. I went to college and lived a decade in West Michigan (Holland, Zeeland, Allendale, Wyoming, Grand Rapids) so I thought I knew snow dealing with lake effect and squalls every winter. Vermont is VERY different. For one, we have a lot more ice and mud. It's also a lot more variable, going from rain to sleet to snow to hail - all in the same drive. I was able to drive carefully and survive with my front-wheel drive with all-season tires in Michigan. Here I have AWD and use snow tires with studs every winter just to make sure the car stays on the road. Also, 50% of roads in Vermont are dirt and in the spring, mud season is quite a challenge that I never experienced in MI . Take my word for it, you don't want to live far from work if you can avoid it. The closer the better - just for your own sanity and to free yourself from worry.

Oof. I’m originally from Michigan and moved to vt about 21 years ago. The winters are not the same. It’s icier here and much colder and you definitely need snow tires. Driving here is different than there. Just a warning, because I also didn’t think it would be all that different.

I can and it is!

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Moved here from Southeastern Michigan in Aug 2020, and I would move back in a heartbeat. VT is for people who enjoy making 12 bucks an hour and being poor, or it is full of rich fucks from NY,NJ. It's a struggle to afford living here, and best of luck finding somewhere to live near Killington, the hotels are homeless shelters because of the lack of VT housing.

Yeah I’ve been seeing a lot about the housing issue. My husband already has a job lined up and it’s 3x his Michigan salary which is why we’re moving. Luckily I work from home already so we have the money part taken care of. My husband is moving down first to stay with his friend and find a house. Definitely can’t afford killington houses but we’re looking in the 200-300k range

Thanks! I know we need snow tires and I definitely did a lot of research on the differences. We have super icy roads where I am but at least there’s less traffic lol we plan to utilize snow tires for sure though

Thanks! That’s great advice and we totally don’t want to commute far but killington is way too expensive for sure to live directly in but we are looking into surrounding areas that aren’t horribly far. I read the winters were icy and I know mud season is gonna be a new adventure. I’m used to ice but the plows here are abundant so it’s not usually a problem. Thanks for the insight! This helps a ton

This is apart of the research process. The job starts at the end of august so we are making sure this is the right choice. He also plans to move down before to make sure he likes the job.

However when you have the second whitest state in the USA…it’s not a bad question to ask how far the racism stretches when your demographic is 1.2% people of color. If you wanna downvote, go ahead but this is how people learn the truth about states. From people who actually live there.

He could still decline the role if it was too bad and I don’t think it’s really an issue to ask real people if the racism is like Michigan racism or if it goes deeper since y’all don’t have many black people.

Also you wouldn’t understand if you don’t have black children that racism is a HUGE factor in moving your family from a melting pot to a white state.

How do you explain the racists of other colors then? I know plenty of Asians who don't like blacks. Same with Latinos. There are blacks that hate White people. Lots who hate Asians. I don't think I've ever seen as many assaults on Asians by blacks as much as I have in the past couple of years. There are even black people who don't like darker people. Plenty of bias when it comes to light skin vs dark skin in the black and Latino community.

I've heard white guys complaining about blacks taking all the jobs too. I think it was Archie bunker....

There's a really good novel set in NEK about a single black father that comes to town. It's set in the 20th century, but it sounds like things have not changed so much.

https://www.amazon.com/Stranger-Kingdom-Howard-Frank-Mosher/dp/0618240101

There is also a movie based on the novel, but the novel is much better. Howard Frank Mosher novels chronicle Vermont of yesteryear. I read all of them when I first arrived in Vermont as they resonate with the present.

That's a long drive to Killington.

Probably because the low wage labor in Vermont was impoverished French Canadians. The KKK was really big in Vermont, but surprise... they put their boots on the necks of white French-speaking Catholics.

You might get more issues from people mad about remote workers moving here and Driving up costs than actual issues with overt racism. Vermont isn't cheap. Cost of living is on the higher side. It's more isolated than Michigan. It's Cold, but you're probably used to that. I think overall you'll be welcome in Vermont, but sometimes all it takes is a few people to make you want to leave. I'm sorry if I missed it, but what made you decide on Vermont? There are both positives and negatives. For most, being cold , sometimes for more than half the year, is enough to make people regret it. Vermont can be a little boring. But that's what I like about it. It's one of the safest states though and one of the better States to raise a family.

Also, if you do move here, try not to attempt to change it. People hate that. People move here and think they know better . Vermont is unique and most want it to stay that way. I agree with that. Otherwise, why move here? I think you'll do well and be welcomed. I'd recommend learning about Vermont's uniqueness and trying to adapt to it. It's a beautiful state. If you do come across racism, try not to let it get to you. It's not representative of Vermont. It exists everywhere, from every culture. I've lived all over and seen it in every form. Even in Michigan. I'm living near Rutland now. It has a reputation, but compared to other places, it's nothing. Killington is Nice. A bit overpriced. Rutland would probably be your best option. It's close to Killington and has amenities. There are other small towns around it. You could look out at Castleton too. I can't accurately comment on the schools. But as far as I know, they're not terrible.

My husband has a friend who is opening a restaurant in killington and offered him a position. It’s a very big increase from Michigan. It’s just less of a risk because I work remote and already have employment. But not interested in changing anything. Just hoping to be welcome and that’s about it tbh.

I’m just supporting my husband because he’s very adamant about this job and this move. So I’m trying to make sure we don’t move to anywhere that’s going to be absolutely unwelcoming and from what I’ve gather that seems to be the NEK

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Unfortunately we have four kids, 2 cats and a dog lol so we are pretty sure that renting won’t be a possibility in this competitive market.

Thank you! I will check it out. :)

I hope it works out for you. It's awesome you're supporting your husband that way. I don't think you'll have any issue as far as many people being absolutely unwelcoming. I certainly Hope not. Vermont seems generally friendly, assuming you're not trying to change the state too much. I hear that about the NEK, but I imagine, even at it's worse, it's not a bunch of people riding around on horseback wearing white robes. I think it's more people who make their opinions known. If that makes sense. Maybe a few who might make a derogatory remark. But from my experience, Vermont unintentionally exaggerates any negatives. Something really bad for Vermont is relatively minor compared to somewhere else. A bad crime year in Vermont is a weekend on just the south side of Chicago. That type of thing. That may be an over simplification, but you get the idea. The racism I've seen in Vermont is far less than the racism I'd see as a white kid playing street ball on a court in southern California in the 1990s. I used to get called Casper a lot. Or Opie Taylor. Or Woody. Lots of white men can't jump references.It's easy enough to shrug off. You can't fix stupid. It was always easier to confront racism with kindness. It's usually not something they expect and you might feel better about yourself. But I honestly don't think you need to worry much here. Be kind, be considerate of vermonts culture and be yourself. Don't let a few issues scare you off. It's a great place to raise kids.

"Just avoid the NEK" is a bit unfair. Yes, there are areas of the NEK that are incredibly conservative, MAGA-hat wearing, and - unfortunately - racist, however that's not true about the whole region. We live in Wheelock and my wife's school is in St. Johnsbury. She has biracial students and BIPOC families that love living in the NEK (that's "The Northeast Kingdom" which describes the areas of Caledonia, Essex, and Orleans counties.) They even had a trans girl of color who the school supported in whatever ways possible. I can't speak to being a person of color, since I'm not, but I can speak to the experience of immigrants (my wife and son are Russian) and of being gay in the NEK, and both have been incredibly positive. However the NEK is far from Killington, so it's a moot point - just don't be afraid to visit the NEK when you move here!

It’s all about social status. Who is closest to the bottom fights to be above the others there. The Asian vs Black thing is a great example. I’m not gonna go down a rabbit hole of trying to explain why racial violence exists with detail, cause that gets into the weeds and becomes borderline racist itself (the concept the idea that conflict arises when one group is seen to get more than another)

But I think if you deeply examine the history of migration to and around the US and overlay that with social statuses etc you will see that the majority of the major racial strife happens on the intersections where 2 groups are both fighting for a better life, but doing it against eachother instead of fighting to overthrow the whole broken system that is holding them all down.

Also the skin tone thing is a proof of the point. Lighter skin is seen as a status symbol, because it allows for easier assimilation into the broader culture. The concept of passing in the south during Jim Crow. It exists today, shit it even goes beyond that to names, and discrimination based on them. But at the end of the day it’s all built around the social hierarchy, and one group trying to maintain it (whites) and other groups fighting against each-other trying to not be at the bottom.

It sucks that w e as a society can’t look past that trivial shit and realize that the real structure is owners and workers. Some day Karl, some day…

Hey OP!! I posted a similar Q in the burlington page. We will be in Vermont by this summer and also have 4 kids. I am bi racial and my husband is black. Can’t help as far as experiences living there, but on my visits to see if Vt was a good fit I have nothing bad to say whatsoever! I feel like everyone is very friendly, accepting, and welcoming! If your fam ever wants to get together once we are all settled just let me know! I know it’s nice to see other POC’s 🤍

Historical doesn't equate to current, necessarily. I think it's more complicated than that. I know well to do Asians in no fear of losing social or economic status that don't like blacks. China is seriously racist against Africans. I personally think most of what drives racism today is a dislike or hatred of culture. The few white racists I've known don't like ghetto culture. I've been super poor and wasn't fighting blacks. I'm sure at one time, there was more animosity due to blacks and immigrants fighting over the same small piece of pie in the decades after the civil war, but this isn't that. Even if that exists on some localized level in some state, white racists in Vermont aren't fighting with black people over social or economic status. I get your point, but I don't think it's the driver of racism today that you might think.

> One root of the problem in Vermont is that so many people have so very little interaction with BIPOC

YES, this is REAL!

So decades old story - I went to camp with POCs, bussed in from NJ . They did their best to put an even ## of POCs with us white kids. Now, this story occurs just before 4th grade - two girls in my cabin and I had just finished swimming - they were talking about wondering if they had gotten a tan. I'm like, "y'all get tans?" - SERIOUSLY had no clue! I'm much better now, really!

Explain the white fear of Mexican workers? They are gonna take our jobs… Jews will not replace us… they hate “ghetto culture” because they see black guys in beemers driving around with rap playing and they are in a 20 year old ford focus. They see Lebron talking about social justice and equality from his platform as a nearly billionaire basketball player and all they have is a trailer and an AR 15.

The Asia Africa thing can be again explained the same. Asia is an emerging area. Africa is trying to emerge that is an intersection. And for people in China they are not more than 1 generation removed from poverty the same is true for wealthy people in much of the developing world. So that historical stuff is still there

The other factor that can contribute is religion

And I think that racists everywhere are. You are missing the driving factor in racism today which is media and social media. 20 years ago I would agree with you, but now with Fox, OAN, Trump, NEWSMAX these people believe all races are at war against whites and trying to overthrow the power balance.

Thank you for this. It really helps. I ask all these questions because it’s a huge move and already terrifying. Thank you for your perspective and advice. :)

Your family configuration makes it harder, but on the other hand, it is very hard to rent multiple bedroom houses in the summer (but easy in the winter). The market is not at all competitive May-Oct at the ski resorts. Like other places, there are real estate agents that focus on renting ski resort properties for absentee landlords, so it is fairly easy to survey the market quickly.

There is a seed of Truth in everything. And just because war isn't declared, doesn't mean war isn't being waged. I got called a transphobe for not wanting to date a chick with a D. I won't be guilted into something. That would be like me calling a lesbian out for not dating me. People have preferences. People are crazy these days. There are probably people who want power and control. Big tech censored opinion And even facts for years. Still probably does. The government is full of criminals it's easy to take something and latch on to it. Everyone wants to be a victim or wants attention. Social media is creating a world of stupid people and mentally ill. It drives almost any negative you can think of. You can find a reason to hate anyone on social media. It's one reason I don't use tik Tok or Instagram or anything else really.

And all corporate media is a joke. They all have an agenda outside of reporting the news.

Hello! Thanks so much for your insight and we would love to take you up on that offer. I’ll reach out via DM!

I’ll look into them! I appreciate all of the help :)

NEK resident here and I just have to add that it’s not a fair characterization to paint all of the NEK as being unfriendly to POC. There are some MAGA chud towns (as everywhere) but much more diversity-embracing energy from towns like Craftsbury, Greensboro, St. J, Glover, etc. Welcome to the OP - best of luck!

An hour, right?

Is Killington still school choice? I thought they were part of the Woodstock district now…

Yes. About an hour in clear weather.

Just want to flag that Rutland High School may not be a good fit. If you search, they've been embroiled in a years-long fight over a racist, confederate mascot that has only recently changed because the State Legislature passed a law banning racist mascots. A search of the local news should turn it up! Vt Digger probably covered it if the Rutland paper is behind a paywall.

This is no longer true sadly. Post Covid it’s no longer a renters market and everyone wants to move here in the spring/summer time so every listing gets dozens and dozens of applications

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