"Lives and works for a non-profit in Boston." Color me shocked.

Black person writes an article about challenges PoC face in participating in outdoor activities-

White people on Reddit- MASH THAT DOWNVOTE.

Is that a racist pun, or are you just oblivious?

Great article!! Thanks for sharing. The author urges white people to acknowledge that they probably have “a deep and likely unrecognized sense of belonging in those [outdoor] spaces.”

Before you discard the idea that a hobby / space / group is not inclusive to all, please question whether you have an unrecognized sense of belonging, and imagine what it would feel like to NOT have that.

We should want everyone, especially those who have been historically excluded, to feel included and a sense of ownership of our shared Vermont and the outdoor spaces and hobbies we love.

People in this sub making me eat my words for claiming that Vermont isn’t racist.

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I suppose you didn’t read it

The only people it pisses off are snowflakes who don’t like the idea of not being the center.

The very title is about the fact that it’s for everyone.

If a PoC who says “maybe white folks shouldn’t be the default in the hobby” pisses you off, maybe you have some shit to work out that you didn’t know was inside you.

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Ah there you are. Maybe that thing inside you is well known to you after all.

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I perused your sorted by controversial comment history. These aren’t your first racist dog whistles. Piss off.

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The article could be much more positively written for example how to attract more POC to wilderness recreation rather than what white folks need to do to atone for this lack.

As someone who hikes/climbs all the time I know how welcoming and friendly people are on the trails. And why wouldn’t they be? You are flush with endorphins, bathing in nature— just in a good place. I’m always amazed at how friendly people are on the trail because this activity seems to filter out most of the assholes. I’m sure there’s still racists hikers, but in general the trails are a pretty welcoming place for people to be.

I have noticed once in a while when I’m out there I see a group of POC who are a little caught off guard when I randomly say hello or greet them as they are wondering why complete strangers are friendly. But that’s also just a part of city/suburban culture. People just don’t randomly say hi when you are walking down the street. But that is the culture of the trails and I’m going to continue to support that culture of welcoming and friendliness to fellow hikers regardless of their race.

I have a suspicion that Critical Theory as it is applied to the black experience in America has a lot to do with the writers perspective. I see a lot of articles with the same kind of general tone in them, citing the same set of works from that..field..whatever it is.

CR in itself i guess is just a tool to shift ones perspective but it was built around economic models IRRC so trying to bend it to other *(edit, just a typo,no i didnt get religion. ) *disciplines seems.. a stretch at best, which might be why the whole article seemed off to me.

It's not easy for us poor white people to buy all the expensive gear either. Have you seen how expensive just a pair of real hiking boots are?

Guarantee if you are black and on a hiking trail nobody will harass you or think anything of it

There's people out there who care about other people in the trail?

All I care about is people not blocking the path, littering, people not yelling/being overly noisy, and dogs on leashes.

After that, I don't care about much. Just four simple things.

Tldr: Author shocked to see majority of people hiking are white when hiking in state that is 94% white.

Tldr of that tldr: Author doesn't understand probability

$20 bucks at Walmart. You don't need to go to OGE to do this shit. Stop trying to be part of the status quo. Hiking is hiking. You don't need fancy shit to do it. Our forbearers diddnt have shit and they were fine.

What kind of race-baiting, virtue-signaling crap is this.. ? Looks like a person having a great time to me.

That's the problem with being poor. You pay for cheap stuff which inevitably breaks down pre-maturely and then your having to buy new stuff the next year.

Yeah that is true. But you're still not out $200 bucks. Even if you bought 4 new pairs of Walmart boots you're still not out $200.

Price doesn't also denote quality. I've seen a lot of tear down videos about boots and testing from project farm and other YouTube channels. People are more interested in being a meme than practical.

I know what it's like to be poor. I was growing up and through most of my adult life. Being poor means you're paying a lot more for a lot less.

I recommend giving White Gaze some hearty research.

The people up here STARE. The richer and older the Vermonter the worse the staring is.

Edit: Ooo, touched a nerve did I? Y’all need to learn to keep your eyes to yourselves tbh.

Sure. I read it. It’s not clickbait; it was published in the Green Mountain Club’s gazette. I’m white, but am interested in others’ perspectives, since by definition I can’t see them unless I’m told about them. I found the article interesting and well-written.

Yup Vermont, checks out. Black, white, green or blue, I don't give a screw. Just stay away and let me through. I hike my own hike and shy away from PC hubaloboo.

I’m cringing SO hard at these comments. If you really and truly feel like Black and POC people are given equal opportunities to exist outdoors, but are open to changing your mind, PLEASE check out Alexis Nikole Nelson aka The Black Forrager. She’s done lots of podcasts and interviews about the risks involved in being Black in the outdoors, and about the history of white people intentionally preventing POC from having access to natural resources in order to aid racial oppression. There’s another great podcast called Ologies that has an epic episode about Black bird watchers, who started on online community after a black man who was watching birds in a public park got the cops called on him by a white woman.

Do NOT tell me that white hikers on the AT haven’t refused to share a lean-to because a black camper was “sketchy” when really, he was just a regular dude who was black. I’ve seen it happen. Do NOT tell me that the 2nd whitest state in the country has never excluded POC from many activities, including outdoor ones, especially when I was standing right there when a white Vermonter said “I thought you guys didn’t like the cold” to my black friend while out snowshoeing.

Racism takes many forms. Passive aggressive exclusion is one of them. A lot of white people participate in this particular form of racism without even realizing it. Northern racism feels different from Southern racism, but is still very much alive and well. Believe black people when they say they’re not welcome. Advocate for them and prioritize their comfort. It’s a no-brainer.

vIrTue sIgNaLiNg

Next you will tell us about wokeness.

The layers of racism in this comment 🤦🤦🤦

right? really great article. mainstream group, website, blog… nah mash that downvote.

I used to hike with a sudanese girl a lot here like hundreds of miles a year, she was always in better shape than me and left VT for Colorado for bigger mountains. While I see less poc here I'd argue percentage wise there are as many people of color that enjoy the outdoors as there are white people like it's still only 5% of white people that get off their ass, the more you hike the more you see the same person in a different corner of the state no matter what color you are. If you want to be outside on a mountain, you will be, not a race thing, a personal motivation thing.

Who peed in your Cherios this morning? People are fatigued frome race discussions that are baseless, including PoCs. You make assumptions on the race of people who disagree yet never thought to think that is a racist mindset since you're sorting opinions by race.

Feel free to do the comment/post history to discredit me since you did that to another commenter, but it doesn't change anything stated above.

The only thing hikers should care about imo is that other hikers are OK. Are used to hike a lot when I was younger and always carried extra water, bleeding control supplies or an improvised splint in case somebody needed some help. Otherwise you do you.

I grew up poor (and white) in Vermont. While I could never afford to snowboard or ski growing up, I didn’t feel like I wouldn’t belong out there simply due to the color of my skin. It is incredibly myopic as a white person to try and say that there’s no problem here. It’s unfair for us to say how someone else feels without having lived that experience ourselves. We need to listen and be open minded.

My wife and I hiked Mt. Osceola and wanted to take some photos at the overlook but one family (that was not white) hogged the spot for the entire time we were there (we even ate lunch). They refused to decenter themselves. This is not a race thing, it's a considerate person/non-considerate person thing and maybe more of an urban person in nature thing or entitled person thing, I don't know. We never once attributed their behavior to their race.

100% support this article. Serious lack of empathy in these comments.

So you don't care about people yelling or playing loud music on trails, standing and blocking the way, throwing their trash in the trail or letting their dogs run around other people?

There are Black people sharing their experiences of harassment on hiking trails and while outdoors foraging, birdwatching, etc — what are you basing your guarantee off of? If you’re pulling from the fact that you personally wouldn’t harass someone or think anything of it, that’s great, but it’s just not the reality for a lot of Black hikers

Booo! I am not the color of my skin. With Dr Martin Luther King's birthday tomorrow, so many have learned nothing. We are but the content of our character.

Bless your heart

What are you referencing? At no point in the article does it mention people of color being too poor to buy hiking gear.

Can you explain what point are you making?

Edit: downvoted for asking a question. This sub is such a joke.

I think I get at least some of what the author is getting at, but the phrase you quoted (“a deep and likely unrecognized sense of belonging in those [outdoor] spaces") seems weird to me. There is also the following line: "A belonging felt so deeply that some might experience it as an entitlement, as a sense of ownership."

This is essentially speculation about what other people the author encounters on the trail are thinking. There's no real way of knowing what is in the minds of these other hikers unless they flat out told her.

I've gotten occasional "entitled" vibes from people on the trail, but that's just my view. After these unfriendly people passed me, I didn't stop them to ask "hey, why didn't you say hi? Shy? Anxious? Fearful? Feeling entitled? Self-absorbed a-hole? Think you own the trail? Rich and above poors like me without all the expensive gear?"

And I'm not sure I would ever describe the feelings I have while on the trail as "deep belonging" or "ownership". Far from it. Mostly I feel in awe of the place, thankful that I'm still ambulatory and able to have the experience, keeping an eye on the weather because in a short amount of time the place can become completely inhospitable and deadly. None of us (or perhaps very few) "belong" there, IMO. I'm there not because of some birthright, but just a desire to experience something beautiful. Seeing people of all types on the trail can only add to that.

Not really because there’s not much I can do about those things. I mostly focus on things I have control over like having a bit of extra supplies and past EMS training so I can help people. Similarly I always used to bring a bag so I can pack out my trash and some collected trash. Of course it would be preferable if everybody was respectful in nature but that’s not going to happen.

So you do care then.....why not just say that?

This savior schtick is kinda old.

I think you’re approaching this the wrong way, these are the values I grew up with and you seem offended by them. I can’t change human behavior and trying to would be met with nothing but hostility and people would just double down on their bad behavior. I personally prefer solitude but I also like helping people and have the skills to do so so why wouldn’t I? It’s not about being savior it’s about living in a society where people don’t have to know each other or even like each other to be kind and help people if they need help. I don’t have to know someone to be willing to help them just like if I see a car broken down in winter.

There is a real problem with people of color not feeling comfortable in outdoor recreational spaces. It’s something that has been well studied and just because you don’t think it’s a problem doesn’t mean it’s not.

Though I have connections to Middlebury, I live in GA, which has a large percentage of African-Americans; you will observe the same phenomena down South.

ffs

Phew, you're taking it even further now.

Isn't it a lot more work to write out all those paragraphs rather than just saying, "I do care, but it won't change the outcome."

Great article. It really puts some historical perspective on why there aren't more POC out on the trails.

It’s really not a lot of effort and I don’t understand why you’re being so negative. It seems like you want to argue and that’s not beneficial.

I’m not allowed to feel a sense of belonging when I’m outdoors?

Oh, I didn't actually read the article.

I'm not being negative. You said you didn't care about others' actions on trails....then you said what you do prefer what people do....so you care.

You're just not acknowledging that and then went on a "how I help people" side quest that had nothing to do with the original point.

So you diverted the point to talk about how you're a good person....how is that not being self-righteous or having a savior complex?

This is the problem with racism right here, you don't feel comfortable with people that aren't your race because you see people as their race, see them as people not the color of their skin. Who cares there's no black people hiking there's PEOPLE, I get wanting to be around people of your culture but I don't fly to europe and complain there's not enough Americans walking around to make me feel comfortable this is ridiculous. Noone is stopping anyone of any skin color from buying hiking gear and going out on public trails. Also you don't hike to see people you hike to see the outdoors, what is this nonsense article lmao.

While I want more people of every race to feel at home and welcomed in the outdoors, I don't think this article does a good job at describing the specific problem or articulating practical and meaningful steps towards that end. It reads like a grad school paper that tries to sound important by using the most intellectual-sounding language. If you want the average white guy/woman to read your article, don't title it "Decentering whiteness..." That's just the jargon of your own cultural/professional circle. This is an important topic that could be addressed much better than it has been here.

green mountain club is pretty mainstream, maybe read and discuss the valid or interesting points of the article?

How would the author know what other people are feeling? That alone doesn't make sense.

Also, a sense of belonging? People are eating too much granola. Y'all walking in the woods, this isn't connecting and being one with nature. It's walking.

You’re being incredibly negative. The other commenter says they care but they try to not focus on it and instead do something positive. You spin that as some savior complex thing. You are wrong here.

No, it doesn't. Vermont is majority white, guess what the majority of people on the trails will be?

It's like walking on a trail and seeing a ton of squirrels and wondering why don't see more moose. There's a helluva more squirrels than moose.

Show me any one of their comments in this comment thread that doesn't show them as a savior for others who can't help themselves? Just send the link or copy/paste it.

Oh, it's all of them.

Yeah, I really don’t think you’re making a strong case if your argument is built on an assumption like this. Little does the author know that I too feel this anxiety of not belonging on the trails because I’m not a regular hiker. Any time I go I have this “am I doing this right?” feeling. And anxiety brain likes to assume everyone around you is confident and judging you. But you can slap race onto this narrative and it gives the framing of having deeper social implications. The only real difference here (and it is a bit of privilege) is that when I have anxiety about this scenario, my race doesn’t come into play where if I were a POC, maybe I would attribute this feeling to my race.

The problem with looking everywhere for racial tensions is that you’ll see it everywhere. Even when the perception is incorrect. But if you questioned it at all, you’re a racist. Which is supposed to spook any well-meaning person from saying anything. No one wants to be called a racist, of course. But if we keep letting these narratives of the most subtle interpretations of racism flood the airwaves, it actually impedes the discussions of overt and nefarious racism happening in society. The population is just too fatigued from race talks to deal with it at that point.

Thank you for posting this! It’s an important message to get out there!

For those dismissing this, please recognize that representation matters. It’s not about if you have ever seen or heard about racism on a trail, it’s about making people feel like they are safe on our trails as well regardless of the demographic they fit into. Just because you have never seen anyone get harassed on the trail does not mean that it isn’t a legitimate fear that someone can have.

Also: it does not matter that VT is a mostly white state, people travel from all over the northeast (and the country) and yet the population of people taking part in outdoor sports here is still mostly white. VT lacking diversity does not tell the whole story of what is going on.

No. I think I made it pretty clear that I don’t worry much about things I can’t fix and I try to not let them detract from my own experiences or enjoyment. I talked about being part of a community and how we don’t always like everyone in that community but we can still be kind to each other. I don’t go around tutting at everyone who does things that I don’t like.

I mean, I've seen racist POS harass black hikers before and/or make ignorant comments. It's not unheard of.

That explains everything. /s

This is utter garbage and actually perpetuates racisim

Dude vermont is like 90% white people, people are getting pissed off because obviously statistically there would be more white people on trails in a state with mostly white people and it has nothing to do with black people not feeling like hiking, you know how me and my friends got into hiking? One friend would ask another to go hiking and that one would get into it and get his friends into it, if PoC want more hikers then they should do what everyone else does and try getting thir friends I to it and then their friends friends. Yes some people here are racist I think thats Tru for every state especially older generations but you can't let that stop you from doing what you like, while I've never felt racism I've been in countries that despise Americans and would swear at me when they heard me speaking English, do you think I let that affect my experience? Do you think I stayed inside and hid? No, I went out and had fun and ignored ignorant asshole people, as should everyone, regardless of color.

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So squirrels are fairly common in Vermont. This is because the population of squirrels is so high. If you sit down and be quiet you can see a ton of them.

A moose on the other hand have a much much smaller population. So you could do the same activity, sitting in down in the woods and being quiet, and you probably won't see one. This is due to the smaller population.

In this cheesey grade school story, the squirrels are white people. The moose are PoC.

So when talk about population and probability, you're more likely (probable) to see something that there is more of (population).

Hope that helps.

No thanks, because I’m not obsessed with arguing. That would be you.

I'd say it's having you back up your point, but you already know the answer to the question because you can't find it. Is this the part where I add, you are wrong here?

I would need some GoPro footage to verify this

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Thanks for sharing your perspective. I hope others will come around to this approach!

At no point does she say she was “shocked” to see a majority of white people hiking. Why deliberately misread the article?

She does say “Throughout the long process of its founding, the U.S. attempted to erase the history of the land it now occupies in order to build upon it a new identity which did not include Black, Indigenous and people of color in its narrative.” And that’s mostly (maybe not entirely) true and valid.

I quoted this line because I think it captures something most white people often do not question. If you are white, you probably do not ever worry that your race makes you less welcome in outdoor environments and clubs/groups. The author is saying that POC on the other hand do not feel this intrinsic sense of belonging. And it’s not just the literal physical space of a hiking trail — it’s the community / group spaces like the GMC, like a subreddit for hiking and appreciation of the outdoors in Vermont. I can’t imagine something that screams “you don’t belong” more than being told your feelings and perspective are stupid and invalid, which is what a lot of other commenters are saying.

It certainly can be - this sub, that is. I’ve been downvoted for insinuating I like to drive fast

Edit: clarity

You’re making a great point about inclusion overall in the outdoors industry. Why does it have to be either/or? We should create a more welcoming space for POC… AND we should create a more welcoming space for people new to the sport(s).

You SHOULD feel like you belong, but you should reflect on the fact that you are luckily to feel this sense of belonging. If you don’t realize that you have this privilege you may unintentionally be blind to the fact that POC do not feel this same sense of belonging, and you and the organizations you’re part of should make an intentional effort to make others feel included regardless of their race. Not saying you (or others) deliberately exclude POC but there are historical and societal barriers you may be unaware of, and this context necessitates working extra hard to be inclusive.

This linked write up is very short, and you either did not read it or are willfully misrepresenting what it said. I am going to paste a section of it (like a third of the article; it really isn't very long) so people can judge your tl;dr for themselves.

>What follows is a composite of multiple conversations over the years. A White hiker asks me,

>“Why don’t more Black people hike?”

>I struggle to determine how to approach this question, where to even begin. Some would find the question intrusive. I don’t. I know that the intent is genuine curiosity. But I’m saddened by the ignorance of it. The answers are complex, but they are easily discoverable.

>I respond by flipping the question.

>Well, hmm. Why do you hike?

>The hiker may answer: “Because I love nature! I love being outside, I love physical exertion. Because I’ve been going since I was a kid. Some friends invited me as an adult. I went on a school, group or church outing. I was an Eagle Scout.”

>These responses highlight a focus on individualism and a deep and likely unrecognized sense of belonging in those spaces. A belonging felt so deeply that some might experience it as an entitlement, as a sense of ownership. Additionally, it is a hallmark of both white cultural conditioning and our nation’s value system to over-emphasize individuality and individual choice, even in the face of ready evidence of how our environments, our families, our communities and our shared history impact our realities.

>In this conversation, some hikers would even stop at, “I love being outside” – had they never thought more deeply to examine exactly how they had developed that love? They had received opportunities over the course of their lives to have varied experiences outside, never being questioned for their interest, rather receiving affirmation that what they had just done was strong, brave, cool.

>At this point in our discussion, a humble and open conversation partner sees the direction I am headed in, and I can share some of the ways that People of Color have been historically excluded from access to outdoor sports and even simply to nature spaces. I do my best to explain some of the history and the national ideologies centuries in the making that shape policies and outcomes. I draw on the scholarship of Carolyn Finney in her seminal book, Black Faces, White Spaces: Reimagining the Relationship of African Americans in the Outdoors.

You can agree or disagree with it in whole or in part until you're blue in the face, but don't just make up a bullshit tl;dr.

Not what the linked article is about at all.

I don't take exception to her expressing how she feels and I'm in no position to question that. I feel her somehow divining what other people are supposedly feeling is less well supported.

From the article:

> In Vermont, 90% of the population identifies as white, and the folks who utilize the Long Trail largely reflect that number

Typical cowardly response.

Of all outdoor sports, hiking is pretty cheap. You don't need much in VT. Our hikes are generally not more than a couple miles from a road. You''re not going on a wilderness expidition in VT. Decent footwear and a water bottle should do it. A headlamp doesn't hurt. No need For GPS on a 2 mile out and back trail.

Because those issues have left deep wounds in our society and we have historically ignored them. Just now we're allowing people from those groups into the discussion for the first time, and that is causing a lot of friction. Just look at the comment section of this article; the top comment in this comment section is someone willfully misrepresenting what the author of the article said, with a heavy implication that the author is stupid.

It's true that a lot of the programming can be clumsy or awkward. Sometimes, they get a little stuck talking about diversity and ignoring issues of class in a capitalist society, like in this article in which NPR talks about how we need more women Venture Capitalists. But overall, people talk about it a lot because we have a lot of talking about it left to do.

I personally am not going to assume I know what makes strangers comfortable. When I see black people on the trail, I react as I would to anyone else, which is to say" Hello" as we're passing each other. Usually me going up, them on their way down. I think black people are as complicated as anyone else. Beyond basic decency, what makes one person comfortable may make another very uncomfortable. I'm not going to force a conversation w/ someone because of their race. Especially not in a place where most people go to relax. stuff like "prioritize their comfort" seems like empty virtue signalling.

Exactly! People are so quick to dismiss this article just because of how white VT is and it’s pissing me off, it’s an issue everywhere!

This is a horrible thing to say this comment should be removed. I’m happy to talk about how entitled YOU are by saying this but I would prefer if you would learn how to spell it first.

The article nothing to do with how outnumbered black people are in the outdoors. I thought that was obvious but- here we are.

The same people who are going to say this is normal since we’re such a white state are also the ones that will complain about there’s tons of cars at the trailhead from places like NY and NJ and other population centers with more non-white people than here. It’s not normal and the lack of diversity in the outdoors is present in every part of the country. It’s obviously not just about the lack of diversity in who lives in vermont.

I think it’s safe to assume that prioritizing people’s comfort includes not calling police on POC who are in parks, using your white privilege to address racism if you see it happening rather than turning a blind eye, not leaving racist notes in trail books, giving excellent customer service to POC shopping in outdoor gear stores, and in general, not getting angry and defensive when hundreds of POC produce thoughtful content about the problems they face when being outdoors. The line of thinking that people’s comfort needs to be as involved as approaching them on a trail and saying “how can I, a White make you, a black, more comfortable today?” is obviously stupid and misses the point entirely.

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Excellent article, thank you.

Hiking is cheap if you’re in warm temps with a clear forecast snd don’t mind a 40lb backpack.

People just being angry that this article exists is a great example of some of the things you’re talking about. These same people most likely don’t consider themselves racist in the least. I suppose privilege is looking at all these topics through the lens of their/our own experiences rather than being empathetic and understanding of other lived experiences.

“Nobody bothers black people on the trail”

“These problems arent real”

“They said something about whiteness. This is offensive”

All great examples of whiteness. All great examples of how systemic racism is alive and well.

I pass as white. I see all these privileges. I’m quite sure I participate in all these problems in ways I can’t see. But to just laugh of lived experiences of marginalized people because we haven’t experienced them ourselves is quite awful.

Folks from the liberation crowd are usually god awful at communicating to people outside of their movement.

It only takes a handful of assholes to ruin things.

EVERYONE is entitled to enjoy recreation in green spaces.

Yes, keep it up, I’m sure you’re winning!

On the trails around Brattleboro and Putney? No one gives a hoot and will let people be. I can’t speak for other places.

This article only promotes racism, if she is so worried about our history then maybe she should write an article about leaving the statue's up in the south instead of tearing them down

Most of your critique is fair enough, but I think you should reconsider this one:

> If you want the average white guy/woman to read your article, don't title it "Decentering whiteness..." That's just the jargon of your own cultural/professional circle.

I agree with you that the average white person would be more likely to read things if black writers went out of their way to speak a certain way, but I don't think that's a valid critique of the author; It's a critique of the readers.

It's true that academics, many of whom are black, have developed some jargon to discuss these kinds of issues, but it's not like it's hard to figure out what "decentering whiteness" means. People on this sub read and discuss all sorts of articles laden with economics jargon all the time--some of which is much more niche--and no one ever has that critique for those articles. It seems people are willing to learn plenty of economics jargon to participate in a discussion about economics, but are unwilling to do the same for issues of race.

Is it really productive to ask people to avoid the terminology of a 100+ year academic tradition of studying "whiteness" because the terminology isn't already familiar to a white audience?

edit: a few clarifying words

I appreciate this sentiment. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t find that hikers are all that hostile to newcomers? All I really expect as a casual hiker is to not be subjected to any disrespectful behavior. I haven’t experienced any real gatekeeping behavior or overt exclusion (of course, I don’t hike all that regularly). It’s always nice if people are friendly and go out of their way to be helpful, but it’s a bit much to expect everyone to be in that headspace mentally. Sometimes we just don’t feel up to it.

I think anytime you enter a subculture, there’s going to be an uncomfortable phase before you feel like you fit in. That’s just the nature of trying something new. We can’t expect our hand to be held during this process. It’s nice if you have someone to do that, but mostly we just have to be adults and work through difficult things. It builds resilience!

I'm so glad someone else is cringing as much as I am at these comments. For people who live in a predominantly white state and never encounter POC outdoors folk, they think nothing of it. I've lived in the South for nearly four years and am a frequent hiker, and do you know how many times I've encountered a POC in the outdoors? Never. And with how racist some people are, I don't blame POC for being uncomfortable or afraid of being in these spaces. Even as a woman who sometimes hikes alone, I feel uncomfortable, so I can't imagine how bad it is for them. The outdoors is dominated by white men, and a lot of them are blind to their privilege outside-- they generally don't get harassed out on the trail. A lot of the people commenting are getting hung up on the affordability of hiking, when in reality it's a safety issue.

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What's your point?

[deleted]

[deleted]

?

Working in the sciences, my biggest critique about scientists, as a whole, is that they rely too much on professional jargon. It creates a barrier between the author/researcher and the audience. If the author of this article is writing this for other professional, social science, academics, than fine. But, don’t expect a lot of traction with a mainstream audience, of any color or race.

This person used one single jargony phrase in the title that isn't even particularly hard to understand. I don't think that critique applies here. People are responding to it negatively because they don't want to understand it, not because they can't.

1. that is a WILD claim for Brattleboro, a town full of white busybodies who hate seeing black people existing

2. still not germane to the OP

And you've commented how many times?

My point is not about whether they can understand it or not, but about the tendency of people in academia, to speak in jargon, whether consciously or not that separates them from their audience. That was my point.

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Yes I understand, but my point is that people are more than willing to try to overcome that barrier when they want to, but on this specific issue, people are throwing up their hands at the thinnest barrier imaginable because they choose not to understand.

I don’t think you’re going to find many care what a person’s skin color is when they are out backpacking. More than anything, trail etiquette determines whether someone is welcome or not. You can have a cool person (or an asshole) of any color.

Cringing so hard this is going to be my only comment.

I agree with you and didn't suggest otherwise. Neither did the linked article.

How is what he said cowardly? You people are weird

Why is everything about race? It makes things worse not better. It drives wedges between people instead of uniting them. There's no "whiteness" to hiking, that's stupid.

You sound racist.

I disagree. He's picking gnat shit out of pepper to write some bullshit article, desperately looking for racism where it doesn't exist.

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I really appreciate you taking the time to reply thoughtfully and explain your opinion thoroughly. Nevertheless, we disagree.

First, I hate jargon. I hated it when I was in grad school studying history and anthropology and I hate it even more now that I'm in education. As someone else on this thread said, it separates academics from a broader audience. And it's not that this jargon is about race - I just hate jargon because I find it's often just a group speaking a language to show that they are in the know - that they have the vocabulary for their group.

Second, I expect the term "decentering whiteness" turns off many white people. It's cold, and it comes off as aggressive. The tone sounds as if something must be done to fix white people. Most people want to do good and want to do right by their fellow man. I expect that's probably even more true of nature enthusiasts. A title that asked white people to hear BIPOC hikers, or empathize with BIPOC backpackers, or understand the challenges for BIPOC outdoors enthusiasts would be inviting white people to action, rather than "decentering" them. My point isn't to say that white people need to be treated with kid gloves, but if you want them to hear you or understand you or take side, you'd be better off inviting them to action than suggestion that they need to be decentered.

As a teacher in a majority white school, I know that if I use terms like white privilege I know that half the white kids in my class will be immediately turned off to anything I say. I know that my kids don't feel privileged and I need to talk about the same ideas without using "trigger" words to get the kids to understand the same concept - not because I don't want hurt kids feelings about race, but because I really want them to confront and understand the inequities in our society.

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Language is important. If you want people to buy what you're selling, yes, the onus is on you to find the right language. Doesn't matter who or what you are, you need to find the right language. And no, not all white people oppose everything that challenges the status quo. The BLM protests have been filled with white allies.

I mean, not much of a conversation or argument. You pointed out something that is easily disproven and then refused to acknowledge that.....so I guess you're going with the toddler route of yelling and then sticking yor fingers in your ears.

Is holding your breath next?

You think the tldr was bullshit?

More bullshit than what the article was?

And what part of hiking the Long Trail is historically black or indigenous?

I'm not too sure 400 years ago people were taking their weekends to hike Camel's Hump to enjoy the view on a sunny July day.

Top comment seems pretty spot on to me.

Please don't be this disingenuous. What should be, and what is, in this country, are VERY different things. No, we should not be judged by the color of our skin, but we are. Constantly. And to not acknowledge that fact demonstrates either profound ignorance or possibly an issue with character - which you admit is how we should be judged.

Everything is about race because white people made it that way. You can't just ignore our country's entire racist history and decide that discussing the very real wounds that are NOT healed is "driving wedges" in any kind of good faith manner. YOU are free to pretend it's "over" and we should "move on" and unite, because you come from a place of privilege, even if it's unacknowledged.
If I was strangling you, and told you to get over it without removing my hands from your neck, that your complaining makes things worse... how would you feel? Or if I stopped strangling you and instead of getting you help, or allowing you to seek that help yourself, I told you, "shut up, you're fine, it's over," would you be so quick to put that history in the past and move on?
Please understand that the wounds of racism are not healed, and recognizing those wounds only "makes things worse" for those who inflicted them.

When?! that's awful!

Things I've seen in the last 5-10 years:

• staring, which is just weird
• Giving instructions on how to hike; assuming that because a person is black, they are new to hiking
• A woman that was vocally surprised to see a black family hiking, and gave a shitty "compliment".

good lord.

people never stop making go wtf.

This post is ironic right?

Calling police? What??? Calling police bc someone is hiking a trail would be certifiable. If you took my comment as defensive... IDK. People tire of lectures from young, rich white kids. Sorry.

Yeah, winter is definitely not cheap. You don't need 40 lbs of gear in the winter, let alone the summer.

But I’m saying that cheap sleeping bags, pads, clothing, tent, etc… all weigh like 2x more than pricy versions

Oh yeah, for sure. That sounds more like backpacking to me, which is definitely way more expensive. When I say hiking is cheap, I mean a summer/fall day hike.

Gotcha

Are you saying I’m a young, rich, white kid? I’m a 40 year old tradeswoman from a middle class family, and I have a high school education. Park Rangers are alerted to the presence of POC on trails pretty often, particularly black men because “they looked out of place” or other nonsense. The lecturing isn’t coming from me. It’s coming from non white people. Like, for example, the person who wrote the article that was posted. If you’re tired of hearing it, imagine how tired they are of living it.

Did you call them out on it?

• positioned myself to interrupt staring and acknowledged I was aware of their staring

• Yes

• Family handled

Edit: you asked, I responded. There was additionally a lot of context surrounding each situation

Wow. You are such a hero.

I'm sure they are. I can't imagine non white people feel comfortable anywhere in VT.

LMAO! No.they didn't. They didn't even consider it.

People are looking to change the fact that many Americans do not feel welcome in parts of their own country but they are using annoying jargon therefore us white people are excused from paying attention.

Nope. My point is that if you want more people to listen to what you have to say (especially on something important like making people feel welcome in all parts of their country) you should find language that invites people to action instead of language that turns people off. Then they might listen to what you're saying. Or you could just stand your ground, use the same language and reach a smaller audience. Which will get more results?

Could you oblige by translating a bit of that academic jargon into nice plain English that will invite people to action?

I notice that when anyone tries that on threads like this people get "turned off" the same or worse.