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TheTowerBard t1_j3wmsdh wrote

You know, when we are all on foot walking around we seem to understand being polite is a good thing. We hold doors for people. We say lovely things like “after you” and then willingly walk a little slower behind the elderly person. For some reason when some of you get into a vehicle you lose all sense of humanity. You tailgate grandma, pass her at dangerous times, and curse and her name when she waves you through the four-way. Listen bros, I want to be doing ten over the limit as well, but grandma is out for a drive and I have enough respect to not terrorize her. She’s been through enough.

I even see it reflected in the comments on this thread. Here’s the thing, you all need to slow the hell down and take some deep breaths on the road. Our roads are getting more dangerous nationwide. No matter how much you vent about it on Reddit, people still aren’t going to know all of the rules. And many people who do know all of the rules will still choose to be kind and say “after you” at the four-way, or they may go the other way and tear through without stopping. So the rest of us need to expect that. Lead with kindness. Show the person showing you kindness some back, and if someone’s kindness annoys you because “the rules” then maybe reflect on that.

The issue on our roads is the assholes not stopping at the stop sign, not the friendly neighbor who waved you through even though it was technically wasn’t their turn. And if you’re behind the the person that skipped their turn, you’ll survive. Let’s all pull up our big kid britches and lead with kindness, even when we feel someone else has dropped the kindness ball.

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LitherLily t1_j3wnewf wrote

Kindness has no place in traffic.

But yes, the speeding and road rage I’ve encountered in VT pales to anything I ever saw in Boston. It’s truly bizarre.

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rumpusbutnotwild t1_j3x7656 wrote

Since you are getting down-votes I feel this statement bears repeating: "Don't be nice, be predictable!". Predictability (following the rules of the road) is much safer than trying to be nice. Being nice on the road = unpredictable = unsafe.

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[deleted] t1_j3x00ww wrote

Bruh what? Driving is the most dangerous thing most people do. We should absolutely treat people with kindness on the road.

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raptor3x t1_j3yb49z wrote

The "kindness" the post is describing basically amounts to "ignore the rules of driving and do whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy". If you want to be kind then following traffic pattern rules is the best way to do it.

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LitherLily t1_j3x1zt1 wrote

The “kindness” illustrated in the post I was replying to is merely bad, dangerous driving. Following the rules of the road is safer than being “nice” about it.

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TheTowerBard t1_j3x6op7 wrote

The rules of the road say you don't have to let someone merge into your lane, yet if someone puts on their blinker most of us do because we aren't assholes. It also helps keep traffic moving for all. Kindness very much has a place everywhere and if you think it doesn't I strongly recommend some self reflection.

And yes, my god, here in VT we can share a little kindness with our fellow road dogs. This sub constantly complains about the shitty attitudes and behaviors from out of staters yet here you numnuts are arguing in favor of being an asshole to people on our very calm, uncongested VT roads. Give a smile and a wave to the person who waved you through. Don't tailgate the slowpoke. Accept that the world doesn't revolve around you and your wants.

And yeah man, I'll also encourage the slow pokes to be kind. You see a line of cars behind you and there's a pull off up ahead. Go ahead and take a little pit stop and let the other folks go by. Is this another form of kindness that has no place in traffic?

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LitherLily t1_j3x7cno wrote

You are talking about something very different than what was described, though.

Waving someone through when it’s not their right of way is wrong, and is bad driving.

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TheTowerBard t1_j3x8etr wrote

Oh no!! Someone did a kindness at an inappropriate time on our very quiet VT roads that never have actual traffic. Whatever will we do?! I mean, they waved you through and now it's going to take the person behind them ten more seconds to get to their destination. The horror!! To Reddit! We must get the word out! A rule has been broken with an attempt at kindness, nooooooooooooooooooo!!!

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LitherLily t1_j3x8tei wrote

If there is an accident (which there are plenty of, even with very little traffic) the person who is going against the right of way is at fault.

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TheTowerBard t1_j3xah32 wrote

Ok. I'm happy that has been established. Lovely. Yet over here in reality waving someone through out of turn at a four way is not an actual societal issue nor a cause of many accidents. It's just something that annoys you and OP because you have control issues and it bothers you when people don't do "what they are supposed to." That's the vibe you are all giving off, anyway.

The majority of accidents are caused by impatient careless schmucks that got needlessly overly annoyed by someone else on the road and and are now tantruming about it in some way. So maybe calm down and give a friendly wave to the "MASSIVE JERK" who didn't know the rules and move on with life. You might have an argument in highly populated areas, but that ain't VT my friend. You and the 3 other people at the four-way can figure it out even if there weren't any rules.

Everyone's all "In Vermont you do what you want" until someone's grandma waves them through a four-way out of turn. Sheesh.

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LitherLily t1_j3xb23x wrote

Funny, my comment also acknowledged the speeding and rage issues that are displayed on the VT roads … and your responses(!)

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TheTowerBard t1_j3xbrzh wrote

Ah yes, because encouraging kindness (even while being admittedly sarcastic) equates to raging. You ok?

Honestly though, the issue is the people that are mad about people being kind. On VT roads of all places. Double sheesh. Shit, that might even be a mega sheesh.

Edit: to remove "bro." I took a look at your username and realized I might be mis-gendering you. My apologies for that. Everything else stands though.

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darkbeagle t1_j41k1ks wrote

Friend don't bother fighting this one. let the flatlanders squabble and crow about "Defensive" driving in Vermont. Most of them say that they follow the rules but I bet money that if they paid attention to what they re doing they pick and choose which rules they follow as much as any Vermonter, just not in the same way.

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WUBERGE t1_j3yoka8 wrote

When we are "on foot walking around," we're not going to kill someone if we bump into them by accident because we moved in an unexpected way. Kindness is fine there.

Your definition of kindness may not be the same as mine. This will cause you to behave unpredictably. Unpredictability while driving a vehicle gets people killed. There are very strict rules for how traffic is supposed to flow, and there are very good reasons for those rules.

Kindness while driving means following the rules so everyone can get home safely.

You are exactly the kind of person that the people in this thread are raging about, and what's worse is that you're smug and high and mighty about being "kind."

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TheTowerBard t1_j3yrm9r wrote

Here’s the thing, people are going to be unpredictable. People are going to turn without using their blinker. People are going to go slower than you want to go when you are late for work. People are going to full on not even realize you are there. If you are driving and fully expecting everyone else to be predictable, you’re the issue. Someone won’t be. That’s a guarantee.

There’s also a lot more nuance to my response that you are ignoring. But ok, let’s focus on your words.

I don’t disagree with you. Let’s look pedestrians again. If we are talking about a group of humans sprinting down a track, yes someone doing something unpredictable can be an issue there. Just like how when we are flying down the highway someone doing something unpredictable can be bad. However, a group of human beings all at a full stop and one says “after you,” we’re all good. No issues. So let’s take this situation OP presents, four vehicles at a full stop. One person waves someone through. There is no issue here. A mild annoyance, sure, but this is not something that is causing danger on our roads.

But again, my point was bigger than this specific scenario. We do have an issue on our roads but it’s mostly from over aggressive drivers and folks who DON’T stop at stop signs. We also have decades of studies that show us very clearly that speed kills. More speed literally equates to more human deaths. Yet I’m not seeing any passion here for speeding. I’m not seeing any posts addressing the tailgating or unsafe passing that we see everywhere. So yeah, when I start seeing folks get worked up about that stuff I’ll believe they actually care about someone waving someone through a four way stop out of turn.

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Definitelynotcal1gul t1_j3xl11p wrote

If they don't know the rules they shouldn't be driving.

Most people are terrible drivers, because of the attitude that "people don't need to know the rules".

Waving people through an intersection is a recipe for death. This has nothing to do with "kindness". You're driving a shuttle that can kill people. Follow the rules.

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TheTowerBard t1_j3xr72v wrote

If everyone is coming to a complete stop at the stop sign and being aware of what other drivers are doing, no one is dying from any accident that could result from this situation. Give me a break. The extreme worst case scenario is a very minor fender bender.

We are discussing a situation that everyone is supposedly starting from a complete stop. When it's your turn, do you floor it? Do you have a vehicle that can go from 0-60 by the time it takes to clear the stop sign? This is silly.

Also, the rules have changed since the old couple down the road got their license. So maybe take some deep breaths and be nice to your neighbors even when they don't do what "they are supposed to." That way, maybe everyone else will be nice to your loved ones when they are out and about and maybe don't know the rules. Of all the actual issues we need address regarding road safety, being waved through an intersection out of turn isn't one of them.

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Definitelynotcal1gul t1_j3xxldb wrote

Nope, still disagree. You're driving a missile. Learn the rules. Being old is not an excuse.

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TheTowerBard t1_j3xzant wrote

aCtUaLLy if you are stopped at the stop sign when meemaw waves you through you are not technically driving in that moment. You’re just sitting still in potential missile.

Hey man, I get it. Old folks annoy me sometime too. But let’s have a little respect for them, huh? Meemaw has been through enough in this life without people being jerks about her being kind when she “isn’t supposed to.”

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Definitelynotcal1gul t1_j3y0sxd wrote

Let me rephrase your point:

"Gun safety isn't that important. Memaw is old, she can't remember things like 'trigger discipline'. When she's holding a gun and pointing it at you, remember to smile and nod".

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TheTowerBard t1_j3y1nm7 wrote

Ah. I see the straw men have entered the conversation. How very productive and mature.

Please my dudebro, by all means, take this energy and apply it to the people that pass cars when it’s not a passing lane. Apply it to the people that carelessly drift out of their lanes. Apply to the situations that are actual issues on our roads.

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Definitelynotcal1gul t1_j3ygf4k wrote

/r/idiotsincars Lots of situations there if you need examples.

P.S. Anecdotes aren't straw men.

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TheTowerBard t1_j3yhu21 wrote

I love that sub. Big fan. Yet I have never once seen an accident there that started from people at a four way stop when all were stopped and one person waved to let another go. Not once. It’s just not an actual thing my dude. You know what I do see a lot there? Over aggressive assholes that need to take a giant chill pill.

And yes, straw man arguments most certainly can be anecdotes that do not apply to the conversation at hand no matter how hard you try to make them apply. In this case, going from a discussion about being waved through a 4 way stop out of turn to not saying anything to meemaw about her lacking trigger disciple is completely insane. Ridiculously absurd. Like hilariously dumb. So yeah, straw man.

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Definitelynotcal1gul t1_j3yjrs2 wrote

You've never seen an accident at a 4 way stop caused by an idiot? Dang, consider yourself lucky. No wonder you're so positive about driving.

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TheTowerBard t1_j3yl70n wrote

Of course I have. Always by someone who didn’t stop. Not once have I seen one stem from a situation where everyone came to a complete stop and someone waved someone else through out of turn. Please, prove me wrong with actual evidence. You can’t and won’t because it’s not a thing. The accidents that occur at 4-way stops are almost entirely caused by people not coming to a complete stop or trying to rush themselves through out of turn. You’re being laughably absurd here.

Please go ahead and look up the leading causes of accidents. None of them are “someone got waved through a four way stop out of turn.” They almost are all caused by speeding, rushing, or distracted driving. None of those things apply to someone at a complete stop waving for someone else who is also at a complete stop to go first. Get real.

And until I see you arguing on here against anyone going even one mph over the limit (something 99% of us do every single day) I’m going to call BS on you caring about meemaw not knowing the four way stop rules. Speeding is scientifically proven to cost lives. Extensive studies have been done that show how more speed equates to more human deaths. So where is all your energy about speeding? Not just you, but everyone else in this thread too. Instead everyone is just annoyed with a well intentioned person causing no one any harm but maybe a few seconds of delay. Get a grip.

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Definitelynotcal1gul t1_j3ymo0g wrote

Well that's great for you. I see accidents all the time at my local traffic circle from people "waiting in the middle" for other folks at a yield sign.

Two or three days ago at a 2 way stop sign near me, I almost witnessed an accident because someone "waved" on oncoming traffic to take a left. Tires screeching and everything from the cross traffic.

So I guess you're lucky! I have absolutely seen accidents caused by "being nice" and ignoring the rules.

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TheTowerBard t1_j3yndhv wrote

Those things you describe are not 4-way stops which is what this discussion is about. Traffic circles have very different rules and very different consequences for not following the rules. I’m in full agreement there are lots of situations where idiots cause dangerous situations. Everyone stopped at a 4-way stop isn’t one of them. Someone NOT stopping at a 4-way would be one though.

And yeah dude, we’re also talking about VT here. Have you driven in other places? VT roads are mostly very chill and relaxed compared to many places. We barely have any actual traffic. It’s just not really a thing here. The main issue in VT roads is speed, distracted driving, and drunk driving.

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FinalSagan t1_j3y2krf wrote

FYI you can pass on double yellow in VT, provided it’s clear and safe of course.

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TheTowerBard t1_j3y9781 wrote

Right. “Provided it’s clear and…” that part is usually missing.

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FinalSagan t1_j3yg5d2 wrote

Lmao, maybe change your rant to “passing illegally” then

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