Sorry people are abusing the fact you open your land up. It is amazing that you do so and I hope a few sour apples don't spoil the bunch.

It could be helpful to see if there is a municipal recreation committee or a local trail organization that could help you communicate your needs to the public.

Many folks are simply ignorant of whose land they are on and how best to use it. With a little Help and communication they could be educated about when and where they can use the land. These organizations might also help you put up signage explaining when and where to recreate if that's something you'd be interested in.

I want to reiterate that opening your land up is a tremendous service to the community. I'm sure there are many people who use it respectfully and certainly don't mean you harm or annoyance.

Hopefully you can come to a reasonable solution! Best of luck

I think this is part of the new Vermont. It also includes driving a luxury car in the most obnoxious way possible and talking loudly about all the great things you used to do on Long Island.

This is a great answer. You could cheaply get a few signs up that state the "rules" for using your land as well; especially the dogs off leash thing would drive me crazy.

Hey that’s not entirely accurate. People in our town used to do great things and eat better food in Boston, San Fran and DC too…

There is tons of public land in VT. My land is posted and will be strictly enforced.

Call dnr on tresspassers. Do not get involved. All states requirecurrent permisiion, most in writting.

My parents could have written this post word for word. Unfortunately, within the past 15 years they've had to post the land. The farm has been in my dad's family for 200+ years. Gates opened, fences cut and squashed, a hay field used for off-roading, unsafe hunters, you name it. It's really sad. Long-time neighbors know they're always welcome (and always ask), but unfortunately use of open land is becoming more and more abused.

I hope you don't tailgate people the way a lot of other Vermonters do.

Once upon a time the only people doing much outside were hunters, and most were trained on the ethics and courteousness that you describe in regards to asking permission and paying back with some sort of good deed.

Nowadays with people recreating it many other ways, many don’t even stop and consider getting permission to be somewhere on their skis or whatever. Not to mention a lot of hunters are new age hunters who aren’t privy to the old ways

First day in VT?

VT land is considerd open unless posted and then the posting requirements are fairly strict.

uhh what

?

Just to be pendantic, if they gain access via the unposted 50 acres, they are not trespassing and are just dicks

I just bought land and have wondered how to handle this issue. Do you post no trespassing or just rules?

What are the posting requirements? Every 100 ft?

Oh, totally agree. I was using "trespassers" interchangeably with "entitled douche canoes".

Here’s the problem: word spreads, even signage is overlooked. “oh they don’t mind, it’s fine!” Until it’s way out of control. First it’s just adjoining neighbors, then their friends come, then their friends, etc. You might have to start having a conversation with some of these unwelcome guests.

I think, in Vermont, these things are handled best by word of mouth. Tell a trusted friend you are not happy and ask them to spread the word of what’s ok and what is not ok.

Show up in town meeting to announce it. Put a post on Front Porch Forum.

I’d suggest Permission Only signs along your entire perimeter.

http://vtfishandwildlife.com/learn-more/landowner-resources/private-land-and-public-access/what-posting-means

Yeah, there are a lot of those. I’m not sure why people lack basic decency anymore. Someone else got downvoted to oblivion for saying it, but part of it is the new Vermonters. Lots moved here after visiting and recreating on open land and don’t realize that there is a lot of good will and relationship building that go into our open land doctrine.

This is it for hunting.

https://legislature.vermont.gov/statutes/section/10appendix/001/00014

I’m not sure if it is different for general posting and not to be a dick, but I’m beat, long day at work. I can try to find it tomorrow.

Thanks so much. Don't stress I'll research from here.

There's specific rules for posting if you want it to be official. You can start here

If you want it to be enforced, post it. You can have notes on the sign that people can ask permission. They then contact you.

If you're just doing rules, I'm no lawyer, but opening yourself up to potential lawsuits if they injure themselves.

Have you heard of people being sued by trespassers that have been injured on other people’s property and the owner being liable if it wasn’t posted?

No trespassing, hunting, fishing, trapping, etc. Yellow plastic Posted signs set as specified by the state, signed and dated, registered with the town.

No permission will be given to anyone who isn't family or friend.

Cellular cameras installed in key areas, backed up with WiFi cameras.

Sounds like overkill but in the 2 months I've owned the land I've seen dozens of guys on my land with rifles.

Vermont has a landowner liability protection law. If your land is open to the public, they cannot sue you for injuries sustained on your land (provided there aren't any man-made hazards/extraordinary circumstances).

This helps and makes sense. How did you handle seeing a guy walking around your property/house with a rifle?

The answer is ‘yes,’ but only under specific circumstances. Google “attractive nuisance” for one example.

Thanks so much!

Cool! Another thing for me to worry about. LOL

But I live here now....why don't you accept me as if I was your old neighbor!?

I don't think people realize it's years or decades of trust being built between people that allowed that to occur.

Someone hunted this year on some land I have. They asked permission even though I have known them since I was a kid. The common courtesy thing to do. When year was over, they gave me a gift card for groceries.

Nothing crazy expensive and wouldn't be enough to fill a basket of groceries, but it wasn't expected or implied. More of a, "you fucker, you didn't have to do that." They also did the gift card trick because if it was money, it's easier to deny money even though it's exactly the same.

People expect all the benefits of a lifelong neighbor on move-in without building the relationship.

The commenter below had the phrase I couldn't remember.

The go-to example is usually a trampoline or pool that isn't fenced off and kids get hurt or drown. The kids aren't blamed because, they're just kids, they don't know any better. The adult, landowner, should have taken precautions to prevent it.

It's good to protect people who can't protect themselves, but it's also a little bullshit that you need to think about how to legally protect yourself vs. providing an area for people to be outdoors.

That's the verbiage I couldn't remember. Thanks for that.

Vermont's law in it is pretty good and fron what I've read about it, stands up well, but someone could still take action against you. Thrown out, sure, but that won't stop having to pay a lawyer to do the paperwork for dismissal.

For sure. If you partner with a trail organization they can sometime provide insurance that would cover defense in that instance.

For example, people that have landowner agreements with the Vermont Mountain Bike Association have that coverage, along with VMBA's insurance policy.

If people are abusing the privileges it's time to post the land for trespassing. If anyone complains you can direct them to the rude neighbors who ruined it for everyone.

This, Vermont is the only state where it's safe legally to let the public on your land. Unless you have any unmarked open pits or other obvious hazards.

I share your pain. I've seen trespassers making complaints to the ministry of environment because the landowners where they were walking installed frost fencing at great expense and they couldn't walk in the forest anymore. I would ask them "did you get permission to walk there" and they looked so suprised by my response as if i was a birthright to be able to freely walk thy neighbors property. I categorize these people as entitled bitches.

What would be a preferred means of contact for permission to cross your (OP or anyone else) property? I’m always looking for new routes/connections for trail running and xc ski, and have had some luck bumping into landowners in person but never quite sure how to best reach out without being bothersome. Postcard with my phone number?

Edit; as if IT was a birthright.

I'm very ignorant in this regard so I could be totally wrong. I would be nervous that by doing this you would be setting a legal precedent that is now public domain.

I was under the impression this was only for hunting... not general access

The old 'please and thank you' goes a long way.

Most states have some sort of landowner protection but Vermont's is especially robust

In Vermont any land that is not legally posted is already free for the public to traverse across.

Unless there is an easement or other legally binding access agreement, the landowner can choose to close the land via posting at any time.

Opening your land is the default.

[removed]

I just bought the land so these guys probably don't know that there are new owners. I saw them on game cameras and the land isn't posted yet.

If I saw guys with rifles on my land AFTER posting I'd try to get vehicle tags, then report them. If I can't find a vehicle I would approach them, ask if they saw the signs, and then tell them that they are trespassing. All with a concealed sidearm ready to go.

Yeah I didn't mean that. I meant once you create a municipal commitee, are you saying you're land is now public owned?

Very rational and reasonable.

[deleted]

Yeah tradition is my trashy neighbor getting hammered in the woods with a gun. “Hunting” he calls it. No thanks. His son yelled at an old lady this year ON HER OWN PROPERTY for being in the woods during rifle season. People are huge fucking assholes man, can’t blame folks for not wanting that on their land

The same with VAST trails. Lots of private landowners support that.

Absolutely not.

Also I think you are misconstruing my post. Many municipalities have recreation committees that help the town and townspeople interface with trails etc. they can be a helpful resource for communicating about using private land for recreation.

OK that's good. I wasn't sure I just didn't want IP to lose his family land.

Well. We have 122 acres in Franklin County. It’s fairly isolated. 95 acres are forested and we only post a 15 acre wood lot and the signs are ripped down almost as fast as we replace them. We’ve had game cameras vandalized/stolen. In the past few years in walking through we found 3 unmarked deer stands along with a total of two construction bags worth of trash, bottles, and cans we toted out. Sometimes I stop snowmobiles racing around in the hayfield. Last year I stopped some guys who cut down maples on the edge of the property. They had already cut and loaded their truck. Don’t even ask me about the trash people have dumped. It’s freaking discouraging.

It wouldn't be hard for someone to knock on our door, stick a note in the mailbox or ask a neighbor for a phone number. We've been here forever. Not hard to track us down.

My dog was killed on my property by dogs whose owner had permission from the previous to walk his dog there. We made it very, very clear his dogs weren't welcome on our property anymore. It was almost 10 years ago, and I'm still upset about it

Exactly. The hunters have been hunting our land for decades and still ask for permission every year (sometimes they even share some meat with us! That is amazing!). The recreation people have never asked.

[deleted]

We've had almost all of those problems. It's so discouraging.

They can't be respectful then it's time to post it. Besides if it's getting used that much I'd be worried if someone got hurt they can sue you. Post it. They do make white signs. Lol

I get where you're coming from, I'm a native Vermonter myself but if I had land I would certainly post it. But I would give permission to a select few that asked to use the land.

Yeah, born and raised here in VT. And because I know the woods and the type of people that abuse property rights, you bet your ass that I'm posting aggressively.

I don't give a flying F if they've hunted there for generations. I worked my ass off to buy that land and things change.

Attitudes like yours are why VT is having a problem attracting people to live here.

So I guess I'll go back to Killington?...jackass

Yup. A lot of drunk asshole rednecks. I don't want them on my land.

Yup, 100% correct. Post it or they will come...

I’ve been wondering what’s the best way to ask someone for permission to go on their land. Do you have to know them personally? If not, how do you go about it—do you just knock on their door? Mail them a letter?

I’m sorry people are being so disrespectful!

I’ve lived in rural vt my whole life and have never seen posted signs as rude, you shouldn’t feel bad at all about posting your stuff. People need to learn some respect that is crazy what you’ve had to deal with.

Do your own research OP but I can tell you that Vermont does not have a history of caselaw supporting permissive easements.

Vermont has strong property rights and asking a community organization to make you some signs and let folks know they need to behave properly will do absolutely nothing to jeopardize property rights.

Have some faith in your community that it's members (on the whole) want to do the right thing, respect your land, and enjoy the outdoors (in that order).

If you have any cell service then cellular game cameras would be a good option for protecting against and catching these people. They're much more difficult to steal and you'll know exactly when someone is trespassing.

Permissive use usually comes with liability protection.

OP, just post it and start recording anyone you confront, to keep a record for repeat offenders.

Sounds awful.

I keep thinking of Pat from UK Ghosts saying to them "What is WRONG with you?"

I hate to be that person, but because we are planning to move to Vermont, we would never dream of doing this, this isn't necessarily an outsider thing so much as just rude, inconsiderate people, entitled and all that being mentioned already.

If I've learned one thing from this pandemic it's that people are just dumb and entitled and don't give a shit about anyone but themselves, and it's just pervasive and everywhere. It was so disappointing to me. But hubby and I both grew up in rural area with acreage so we probably learned early what was okay and not okay and respect people's property.

Anyway, don't downvote cause I totally empathize and support OP.

These tresspassers are asshats and you shouldn't have to deal with this.

Pretty sure I would have gone eye for an eye on that shit.

Wow! That’s infuriating.

Because there's a concerted effort to abolish property ownership rights. There has been for a while. Look around, it happens all the time now. People rationalize being other's property, or why they are entitled to use an other's property "because it's here". Hell, just look at all the stories right here on Reddit about a neighbor jumping a fence, or cutting a lock to use someones pool because "it's not hurting anyone, bro".

Blame the owners, not the dogs

Sorry if your dogs are roaming around killing other dogs they need to die. Not even hate towards the dogs but they are dangerous and need to be put down. That’s the logical side. On the emotional side my dog is very much my family and I wouldn’t have let that stand. The state/town can do what’s right or I will.

I had a similar issue in a smaller scale. Live in a development. My neighbors' kids played in our yard. At first it was just occasionally crossing over, then full on playing in the yard. If they had just said "is that OK" I would have said yes, as they were being respectful. But they acted entitled. Soon enough they were leaving trash in our yard. So we got a fence.

the owners have eyes too, presumably.

they cut down your trees? is this not stealing -- and they can't figure this out? Not to mention all of the other abuses...

Personal opinion that requiring an owner to post every so many feet on their land every single year to prevent trespassers is onerous and as VT's population ages, not a reasonable bar to set for a home owner.

Also, people walk/ ski across our lot but last year people started snowmobiling on it to reach VAST trails & signs are going up this year.

We post "hunting by permission only" signs along with our cell phone number. Most of the time we're fine with it. But we just like to know in case we walk our dog out there.

Anybody leaving trash out there, cutting trees, putting up tree stands, etc would severely piss me off though.

Statutory damages for timber theft are 3x the value of the wood taken. Go after them.

I believe the posted signs should have contact info (phone no and address) of the land owner. You could call and / visit in person. I would think an in person visit would be more personal and effective.

Yeah but timber isn't worth jack squat - you might be able to recoup enough to cover legal fees if you can actually manage to collect on the judgement. "Decorative" trees however can bring big money depending on type, location and age.

The difference being, a tree in the woods is only considered worth whatever it would be in lumber value. Last I saw, split hardwood was going for around $300/cd - roughly 3 14" dia trees; whereas a decorative one has to account for "replacement" cost of a like tree being brought in. So if you have a big 100yo Maple in your front yard cut down, a similarly sized one would need to be brought in to replace it. Since this is not only insanely expensive (big equipment for big trees, then finding a suitable "donor" tree) but also highly likely to fail (a big tree like that isn't likely to survive the moving and transplanting), it's "base" value is much higher; so once the treble damages kick in, you can see judgements in the 6 figures pretty quick with just a few trees.

Not a birthright, but a constitutional right per the Vermont constitution.

> Also, people walk/ ski across our lot but last year people started snowmobiling on it to reach VAST trails & signs are going up this year.

You don't need to post it. It's illegal anyway to snowmobile on someone's land without written permission.

It is sad because who wants to see Vermont become a NO TRESPASSING type of state. Who wants cellular cameras watching them when taking a walk in the woods? And the reasons - social change, lack of courtesy, incomers without knowledge of traditions, but also old-timers who feel they have inherited rights, or perhaps there is just a general degradation of human decency? On my rural street not a single property is posted including many farms with hundreds of acres. A neighbor recently got on gamecam another (fairly new) neighbor cutting a christmas tree on his land. Solved by polite request not to do it again without asking. I'm pretty certain if somebody posted the neighbors would all ask "why did you post?" so it's not the norm where I am.

>The difference being, a tree in the woods is only considered worth whatever it would be in lumber value.

Well, it depends. If it is an active sugarbush, or it can be proven it was purchased/maintained with intent to use as a future sugarbush, you can include agricultural losses in the damages.

Yeah, my dad spent 20+ years coordinating a 10k Nordic ski loop around town. Relations with owners granting access has always been important since… it’s their land.

I'll start off with a personal story, and then offer a few things to consider.

Story:

When I was a kid, there was a long trail that ran behind a bunch of neighbors houses. I used to walk this trail for years. When I grew up, I left and came back on a visit at one point years later. I was walking the trail one day and a guy came running out of his house, waving his arms, and explained very firmly to me that this was no longer allowed. In a similar vein, this was because a different neighbor had been getting drunk and riding his quad around this guys property late at night. I was incredibly angry at this rebuke, but told him I'd stop. I wasn't angry at him because I felt like the trail was "mine", but instead because I had this kind of connection to it. You know? It was a very special feeling of being able to walk the same path for my entire life. It was his choice, and his call...it was his land after all. I just felt this terrible anger about it because I felt like it was kind of like taking back a statue that had been put up in the center of town. It wasn't owned by me or the town, but the loss of that thing hurt in a very personal, sentimental way.

Considerations:

1. If you'd like to institute some sort of compromise, perhaps you could put up signs explicitly saying what people should do, rather than assume they know what not to do.

   "Before entering, call this number... Unwelcome guests and trespassers will ... Do not damage the land in the following ways ..." Something like that. If you cut out the excuses people dish up, then hopefully fewer problems would occur. I suppose depending on how egregious things got, you could escalate things from there. Personally, I would have demanded the person word that they would pay for the damage, if they had purposefully destroyed my fence.

2. On the flip side, it might not hurt to try and cut some of the more clueless people a tiny bit of slack, too. I would think that if I, say, asked the same fellow once a week for a full year, "Do you mind if I go through here?" And he says "Sure, yeah!" each time, would it make sense to keep asking? It wouldn't necessarily be me thinking "Oh, this is mine" but instead something more like, "Why am I going to keep bothering this guy with asking?" I suppose you might see things differently, but it might not hurt to think on it.

3. Also, do keep in mind that, unless these are people that know you pretty well, they might feel some apprehension about banging on your door. "The locals told me they go through this guys land all day, every day. Why am I going to check with him first? What if he isn't even home? What if he's in a rotten mood and doesn't want visitors?" Etc. I've noticed some of the younger generations can get very skittish about talking to strangers - even if those "strangers" happen to be only be a few roads down, and have lived there for years. There's a kind of assumption of "extreme privacy", people tend to assume they're "bugging" someone by coming up unannounced. I can't quite explain it.

Can you elaborate?

Contact VAST. the people who maintain the network know how important the support of private owners is and that they are the face for snowmobiles.

Put those yellow signs up and register your property with the town! Unfortunately, it’s not the same world it once was.. A few bad apples can ruin it for us all…

I recently let my dogs out to do their business for the night and was calling them back in... someone in my woods yelled out, "Fuck you!".

I've been sick and unable to find my property stakes, let alone post my property, but once I recover I'll be posting my property. My neighbors and anyone who cares to ask me know that I'm okay with hunters. But now they'll be forced to ask... not that it'll stop some of them.

I suppose once things have been a way for so long they feel entitled, which sucks because there's no appreciation. Then if you do stop being hospitable, your reputation suffers unfairly. I wonder if another kind of posted sign basically.politely stating your case and expectations for use that people.might abide? Like posted on a trail?

[deleted]

[deleted]

Agree. Selfish people everywhere. I’ll also add that having grown up in a state with lots of private property and no trespassing signs, I would never just go on someone’s property without permission. Living in a more populated state with smaller lots and visible neighbors makes you assume all land is private even if it’s unposted. If I did use unposted land, I definitely wouldn’t leave trash or use an atv. Those are common problems in many states, I certainly don’t want to see it in VT. I’m also aware enough to realize I don’t have experience with this type of land use, so I would err on the side of caution until I understood the expectations.

[deleted]

That’s terrible, I’m so sorry 😔

Edit: Read some of the comments and damn there are some destructive people so understand at this point. It's too bad. So take what I say below as the perspective of someone who is nieve about idiots and a LNT minded person.

Posted signs were one of the few things that I actually hated about VT. Coming from ME they were few and far between so encountering them was always jarring. In maine there was a joke that you knew when an out of stater moved in. The for sale sign went down, no trespassing go up.

What I found frustrating is the law is the same. Open permission unless posted, and landowner absolved of liability.

Now I get no hunting, trapping or any sort of activity that damages or relieves a person of something on thier land.....but just blatantly posting land that is wild and never seen just seems stingy. I admit, i am one of the bad ones, I did trespass often but never hurt or took anything. I would often see a nice trek on a topo and go without regard for the 15-20 lands I would cross, especially if only one was posted. That said....it was usually once or twice a year, the posted signs were blank with no ownership so wasn't going to waste my time trying to figure out the owner if I was only passing through for 20min.

Maybe I should ask, why do you feel the need to post your land against all uses? Why not selective?

I hope those owners have a really bad car accident

> I'm not sure about Vermont,

OP, this is all you need to read about this persons post.

I feel for you and your land and everyone else here with similar issues. My parents' property doesn't even have any sprawling fields and people still loiter all over our yard because they have one of the nicest access points to the battenkill. We give permission to people that ask, but I can't believe the audacity of some. Not just tourists either. The area obviously someone's front or side lawn, idk why so many think any open area is public. I always make sure I'm not trespassing when I'm out and about, why can't others do the same?

Get trespassing signs.

They don’t have to be obnoxious yellow ones. They make small metal ones. Use a bunch of little ones to cover the majority of the border, with one larger and more explanatory one at a main entrance point.

Post all your land clearly or be financially liable when someone gets hurt using it We’re not living in the 70s anymore and people will do unimaginable things for a dollar. Especially people with who fiercely advocate for animal rights Where is your property?

Yes, but only if the land is properly posted, which it sounds like the OP’s land is not.

[deleted]

[deleted]

That's definitely true & I've lived in other rural parts of vermont where it wasn't an issue. But watching someone snowmobile over our property- its not like I can (or would want to look so crazy) as to run out after them. So for now we'll post it & contact VAST about what to do

Our property borders a national forest on one side. We’ve had people try to camp or hike through our property before. And , of course, the illegal poachers/hunters/vandals/thieves

We didn’t do anything besides chase them off until about 10 years ago. Our property has a small pond. Several pairs of geese decided that our small pond makes a great year round home. They don’t bother us or our dogs/animals , but will aggressively chase anyone else. They are big, make a lot of noise & look insane when bothered. The original pairs have long since passed, I’m sure. There are sometimes more than three pairs. We are respectful & give them space during nesting.

We’ve not had any issues with hikers, looters, vandals or campers since the geese decided our pond makes a great home. Raise some geese for your property

I find it endlessly fascinating how people can have very different reactions to similar situations (why I love Reddit!). We had a riding trail that continued on from our land to a neighbor's land. We used it for decades. It was eventually sold and the new owners posted the land. It never once occurred to me to continue using the land. New owners, new rules.

RE #2: I would never expect people to ask each and every time! That is crazy. Annually was always the norm and that would be just fine. These people do not ask at all and the few that I have confronted (kindly and politely) have stood me down on their "right" to continue using our property. I've never said that they can't be on the land, I've just asked that they hug the tree line so that we have more privacy. I can't begin to fathom responding that way to a request from a land owner. If I was on someone else's property and they asked me to leave or use a different route, I would apologize profusely and NEVER go where they asked me to avoid. Frankly, I would never be on someone else's land without explicit permission. We need to cut through a neighbors property for some maintenance issues and they have told us to go any time. I still ask when we are about to do a big project. It's just basic common courtesy.

Have lived in Vermont since 09’ (I was 21). I would NEVER do any of the things people have done in this post, it’s crazy to think that people think this is rational. That being said, I’ve always thought Vermonters were too lenient with property rights for this reason- people are disrespectful, entitled jerks. A few ruin the bunch. It’s your property, lord knows you paid (and continue to pay) for it. Do with it as you’d like, don’t feel bad.

[deleted]

I have a 150 acre parcel, mostly woods and some fields. I kept it open for many years because most people were mostly respectful. Last couple of years I've had way too many yahoos leaving beer cans all over, dead deer carcass's (probably poached) and even a giant ugly couch. Now my driveway is gated and locked and I've had to put up no trespassing signs. At some point it's just not worth it. Too many people abusing the land.

This is the entitlement of the younger people whose families have lived here for generations. They don't know that the older generation earned their welcome. All they know is "this is the way it's always been."

Land laws and policies are pretty clear in VT when it comes to posting and using private land. Why are you commenting on a subject in a states specific sub if you have no experience with how things are done in this state? If you had mentioned you’re not familiar with VT at the top of your comment, that would be different. But you didn’t, the first half of your comment comes off like you know what your talking about, when in fact you don’t.

Thankfully this really isn't the case in Vermont. There are robust liability protections for people who open their land to the public unless gross negligence is involved.

I'm not sure how it is in Maine.

[deleted]

I have land and have seen it all: trash, poaching, people cutting trails, vehicles doing donuts, just outright rudeness, etc, etc. Just post it. People are shits. I lived in my area growing up and bought a large piece of property and found out the neighbors were actually the biggest pieces of shit ever. They didn't care about my privacy and they didn't care about their dogs harassing me or my critters. They had used the property through the years and the fact that someone bought it (even a local) and built a house didn't matter to them. In fact, it seems to have angered them. It's almost like they considered themselves to be the defacto owners, although many of them could have bought it at certain points through the years. The fact that the house was there didn't matter to them. They would go right through my yard in front of the house to access the property even though they didn't have to. Just rude.

Add to that all the people who want to use the property from just random places. It's like they (especially hunters who have paid for a license) have a sense of entitlement. It's like when you see a tourist who's just being a complete shit. You wonder if they behave the same way when they are home. Do they throw trash on their own property? Do they respect their neighbor's privacy? etc.

So up went the signs. It's an onerous task by design. But you should check your property lines every year anyway. It's never happened to me, but I know of other property owners who have had their lines moved. Anyway, I was just done with it. I'm not going to be treated like shit on my own property.

In terms of signs near houses, I have the same situation with signs going right by someone's house. I don't feel bad about it though. This guy wants to hunt on the property and I tried it twice with him. He won't follow the rules. The rules are simple. Text when/where you enter. Same when you leave. Only deer. And stay away from the house. I have others who do fine with this. Anyway, he wouldn't even see the signs except he cleared every tree on his own property. So screw it. I tried.

Anyway. just post it. You can just do no trespassing signs. They don't have to be dated or signed.

> § 67. [HUNTING; FOWLING AND FISHING]

> The inhabitants of this State shall have liberty in seasonable times, to hunt and fowl on the lands they hold, and on other lands not inclosed, and in like manner to fish in all boatable and other waters (not private property) under proper regulations, to be made and provided by the General Assembly.

https://legislature.vermont.gov/statutes/constitution-of-the-state-of-vermont/

https://vtfishandwildlife.com/learn-more/landowner-resources/private-land-and-public-access/what-posting-means

The simple solution is to post your land. You can still offer permission to those that ask.

When you post, remember that you need to post signs at all corners of the property as well as every 400 feet. Additionally signs need to be updated annually and you need to register your land with your town clerk’s office and pay a $5 fee. The town clerk registration needs to happen annually too. It’s an onerous process here in VT, but it is what it is.

Put up signs.

Same, that is why a note is required to tresspasss.

nope

If OP gets shot we will know why.

>They don't have to be dated or signed.

They do have to be dated.

>Signs must:

>Be placed at all corners of your property (or the portion you wish to post) and spaced 400 feet or less apart along or near boundaries,

>Be at least 8.5 inches wide by 11 inches tall,

>Have lettering and background on contrasting colors,

>Be legible, including any additional information or wording,

>Be maintained and dated each year, and

>Permission Only signs must include a way to contact the owner.

>Signs must:

>Be placed at all corners of your property (or the portion you wish to post) and spaced 400 feet or less apart along or near boundaries,

>Be at least 8.5 inches wide by 11 inches tall,

>Have lettering and background on contrasting colors,

>Be legible, including any additional information or wording,

>Be maintained and dated each year, and

>Permission Only signs must include a way to contact the owner.

No hunting signs have to be dated and signed. No trespassing signs do not.

All Vermont law about posting and land access is hunting law, the right to general pedestrian access is a recognized implicit extension of hunting access. The right to restrict general pedestrian access is a recognized extension of the right to restrict hunting, so all the same burdens apply.

The only signs that don't need to be dated are safety zone signs. Also no trespassing signs on buildings, but I don't think that's what you meant.

But if you've got a source that supports your understanding I'd be interested to read it.

These are my sources:

https://vtfishandwildlife.com/learn-more/landowner-resources/private-land-and-public-access/what-posting-means

https://legislature.vermont.gov/statutes/section/10appendix/001/00014

No, hunting and trespass are two different beasts. Hunting is treated separately and what you quote specifically applies to hunting. It has nothing to do with civil or criminal trespass.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it! I’ve been dragging my feet bc I wasn’t sure how to go about it