I am on the repair team for the company that services the elevator in the article and was sent to assess the damage of the incident. The door landed on the elevator that was two floors below. These door are designed to be extremely hard to dislodge and for it to fall into the hoist way is not easy to do. This was no accident, this was done intentionally and is a very dangerous situation that these students caused. Also we found a case of white claws on top of the cab so the kids have terrible taste as well as judgement

[removed]

I had the same reaction at first but at $4 I doubt anyone will bother

Stop fearmongering damage is down, it was much worse in the 80's when UVM students would tear down lamp posts on Church Street, try visiting a real school like MIT, then you'll see some REAL damage. Bootlicker.

/s

As the article says, that's standard practice at colleges.

It happened once to my dorm after somebody broke the glass in one of the entry doors.

I never bothered to check, but I imagine this sort of thing was covered in the housing agreement we all had to sign.

I'm sure people would, but not everyone can afford a preppy ass school. 🙄

I hear elevator repair workers make bank. Is that true?

At vtc my whole floor got charged and the cleaning crew refused to come for the last couple weeks of the semester. Kids are kids. But this is a great example of why we shouldn’t forgive student loan debt 😂

Like most highly technical trades, the only people making bank have the title CEO

That's all jobs, but I'm asking comparatively, one wage slave to another

[deleted]

“UVM has identified the students responsible for the damage in two dormitories, Mason and Simpson. Those students will foot the bill for one-third of the repair costs — to the tune of $1,791 and $2,344, respectively — while UVM will absorb the rest.”

Ummm why would they not make the students foot the entire bill?

College kids destroy property, tale as old as time... St Mike's kids busted through walls to connect housing units and Champlain kids tore the first Quarry Hill 4 story apart at the studs... you would hate what the UVM hockey team did to their house when they lived on Maple...

6 figures of damage just this semester is fucked. My theory is all these kids were the ones locked at home with their parents during high school for covid so they never got it out of their system to mature in high school.

It’s not necessarily worded well, but it’s all the student residents who split the costs, so no proof each/any individual student did the damage. My guess is that they mean to encourage group responsibility. If you’re that teacher that says the entire class must serve detention for the actions of a few, maybe it pays to make it reduced…

Not in BTV where the Otis Elevator building is only one story tall.

The kids destroying dorms aren’t the ones with student loans

[deleted]

How many escalators have you serviced in VT?

Not a dorm, but a residual effect this has is, landlords that rent in student areas charge outrageous security deposits because they know they never have to give them back. So rentals in student areas are in a perpetual state of disrepair. It actually pays landlords to have them trash up their living spaces. The whole area suffers.

WTAF is actually wrong with people. I’d be horrified if my student participated in such senseless destruction.

Oh yeah, between the hourly rate and my benefits package I take home a good chunk of change. The overtime rate alone is usually classified as double time so there is that as well. It also helps that I am a member of the Union that has a agreement that most of the big companies in the U.S. are signatories on.

There aren’t really that many in the state that I know about. The ones I do know of are at the old macys and I have not been to those yet.

Yeah not so much, my trade is heavily unionized so we make some of the highest wages on most construction projects

Last I knew since the Macey’s was demolished there were two pair at BTV.

How did you get into the trade?

It seems like there were a bunch of different incidents. In certain incidents they found out who did it and only charged the students for 1/3 of the damages. In other incidents they didn't know who did it so they spread the charges out among the students. The question is, in the incidents where they know who did it, why didn't UVM charge them for the entire cost of the repairs.

Barnes & Noble has escalators. That's the only one I can think of.

Good phrasing

It has its ups and downs I'm sure

makes sense that it was on redstone

People buying white claw should be arrested before they leave the store.

Elevator union is one of the best.

For that kind of money, I’m sure the bosses really try to push your buttons

> Caloiero also noted that this cohort of college students has weathered major social and educational disruptions due to the pandemic. In light of those upheavals, she advised parents and caregivers to exercise a bit of grace in dealing with their young adults.

Seems like a weak excuse for vandalizing the living space of your classmates. If you can’t exist in a college dorm without destroying it, maybe you’re not fit for college

The cost per student was about $4 in the case that it was spread around. I get that it’s annoying for everyone to share it, but probably not worth fighting too hard.

insert crying noises here The kids causing this damage are stupid; however, I could care less about the hardships this poor school faces over $18,000 in damage. If they change their admissions policies to start taking in more students from their own state maybe I'd care, but the school that focuses only on rich out of staters can pound sand otherwise.

Probably a New Hampshire kid.

The new Killington Base Lodge will have an escalator, I believe.

It has its ups and downs

Lmaoooo

Rich, entitled out of state students who were never punished growing up is what’s wrong

A a Burlington resident. Uvm kids have gotten way wilder since covid. Its kind of gotten ridiculous.

When I went to college they would kick kids out for less. They must be wealthy.

💯

Lol if someone the same age wasn't in college they would probably be facing charges. Idk why they don't hold them accountable as adults.

Seconded, most of these kids aren’t working part older alone full time jobs trying to make ends meet through college. Never understood why college kids get a pass for things like not bathing and wearing filthy clothes let alone destruction of property when they may be go to half of their classes do a couple hours of homework and spend a great deal of time doing nothing productive. I remember the first time I visited my brother at college, he went to a UC in California. His room was a mess, all of his clothes were dirty including the ones he was wearing anyhow obviously hadn’t taken a shower. Makes me wonder what they’re doing with that time, I got the boot at 18 and things like cleaning and bathing were not hardships.

Yup. And the kids don't care that apartments cost 1800 a month and have no drywall because "its a party house im not paying" . God the housing here fucking sucks and no one can do anything about it.

*connecticut

The real crime is that Erica Caloiero vice provost for student affairs is paid $160,000/yr with another $40k in fringe benefits.

There is at least two dozen VP's of something or associate dean of this, that or the other thing; that earn in excess of $200k per year at UVM.

Not 'educators' just glorified paper-pushers with degrees and splendiferous titles.

Any wonder UVM is the most expensive or consistently near the top of most expensive state universities in the country?

Goddam shame when you consider the whole idea of 'Land Grant College' was dreamed up right here in VT by our own Congressman Justin Morrill, and signed into law by Abraham Lincoln.

Now the cost of a UVM education is beyond the reach of most VT families.

Brats

If there wealthy, they should foot more of the bill then

Well they should. But if the college comes down on them their parents might pull that sweet sweet full tuition from the school.

They wouldn’t be facing charges unless this was from only a few students. Do you know what a security deposit is? If this was 18 students causing $18,000 in damages they just need a $1000 security deposit from each to cover this damage. That’s pretty normal for rental housing.

Where is your source for the “out of state” speculation?

If they went to the mall or some shit and ripped out an elevator door they would probably be charged for vandalism. Or destruction of property.

Also landlords can and do go after people in court for exessive damage.

Sucks that everyone is being made to pay the fine. Are they even trying to find who actually did it?

Still not as bad as when the drinking age was 18 and they were allowed keg parties in all the dorms.

Or now you'll have innocent people resenting the administration for punishing them for something they didn't do.

It's the principle of footing the bill for someone else's damage

Yeah that attitude should be for extending deadlines on homework, not ripping the doors off an elevator

19 grand a year? Hardly unaffordable for what you get. Half of VT attendees go for free? Out of reach is just not true especially when you add in the fact you can get credits in HS or CCV and they count towards your degree.

https://vtdigger.org/2020/01/26/nearly-half-of-enrolled-vermonters-attend-uvm-tuition-free/amp/

I understand the importance of compassion, but the trend of shielding young people from the natural consequences of their actions doesn't help anyone.

They also know that 10 people can come up with 300 a month, each So that is 3000.00 rent for a house that would get 1200.00 or so in normal situations. The more they pack in there, the more they can make. Definitely needs more monitoring.

Yeah, thank you for saying the correct words I was missing. “Natural consequences of actions” is super important for young people. We try to teach young children this in their path of maturity.

Some of it may just be Americans viewing “college” as a four-year excuse to do whatever you want while away from your parents. And it doesn’t help if students never learn important lessons.

Affluenza pandemic

[deleted]

That's tuition & fees. Total ticket is $33k if you live on campus and many VT's do.

And, no, they don't always transfer all the HS credits and no all the CCV credits do not articulate.

And the reason so many VT's go tuition free is the green and gold program that allows the Valedictorian (and Salutatorian I think) of each HS class in VT go free of charge.

So, as usual, the high achieving kids that are almost always from high achieving families who could well afford to pay get to go for free.

Where is the equity there?

They go to uvm. Of course they’re wealthy

People did shit like this at my college. The culprits were all entitled rich white guys who were very drunk. It's really frustrating for the people who just happen to live in the building and have to live with it.

I go here, and I live with them.

So your only evidence is your own biased anecdotal evidence.

While I agree that UVM is too expensive as a graduate myself… The majority of tuition free attendance is not the green and gold program. You might be surprised to learn it’s primarily children of faculty members. After a certain amount of time at UVM, any faculty members kids can attend full ride - this is partially why UVM has so many roles that would usually have a high turnover rate getting held onto.

Furthermore, the vast majority of students get SOME amount of financial aid, typically need driven rather than merit driven (89% of students get some form of discount as per the reporting of UVM’s student financial services).

While this is also PR - UVM Keeps Tuition Frozen for Fifth Consecutive Year, New Scholarship Offers Full Tuition to Vermonters from Households with Incomes up to $60k

I love to rag on UVM but let’s rag on them for the real scummy things they do, I think you’re focusing on the wrong thing if you think the 1 kid that each eligible Vermont high school / some border schools is able to nominate to receive the scholarship every year is the core of UVM’s inequality.

You are correct, that's a small part of it. My point was directed more at the inequity. If your mom and dad are professionals with six figure incomes. Working a p/t job for a pair of ugly yeezys or lululemons might not be necessary for you. You can focus exclusively on your schoolwork.

But if you're a middle class or lower middle class high achieving kid that needs to work 20 hrs a week while in HS you might not be tops in your class. Maybe you're just top 10. You're going to miss out on the free ride.

And I'm aware the kids of faculty and staff (of ALL VT state colleges) get free or significantly reduced tuition.

But the kids of SERVICE staff like Sodexo, who could probably use the help more than Faculty and Staff kids, well, just one more inequity!

I'm pretty over treating college students as children. College isn't babysitting. I mean, imagine someone did this in any other environment? It's objectively criminal.

I'd like to think we were more responsible. Yeah, probably not. Maybe because it was less verboten it seemed more normal? The years can put a fog on ones memory but unfortunately, if I remember right, it did take a couple of injured students to start to change things.

To your point on inequality though, would merit based scholarships then never be appropriate or fair? You can control for financial need easier than you can control for any other circumstance that could change a students ability to succeed.

Also when you say “SERVICE” do you know that to be the case? The janitorial staff etc. all get the tuition benefit after one year as well so I always just assumed that extended into the dining services areas as well but if Sodexo is a third party contractor with the school that could make sense.

There’s clearly a problem with how expensive UVM is but then having 44% of in state students on a zero tuition plan is still substantial. 12 of the 44% are faculty / staff dependents and the rest are need / merit based scholarships and grants.

One of the biggest pieces of the puzzle is that often students don’t even know what grants or funding they’d be eligible for. I was sure my family couldn’t afford college until I sat down with my high school guidance counselor and he walked me through getting access to as many need based routes as I could. Everyone isn’t so lucky to get help to figure out all the forms and applications etc etc

I’m of a stance where state universities should be 100% free for their states residents so in my opinion that 44% isn’t high enough but truly I am curious if you can propose something that is able to balance all the competing factors that currently render merit based anything entirely unequal.

That, and all the license plates.

They were setting off whole-ass fireworks in Winooski the other night. Backyard kegger.

They were using license plates when they caused damage? How strange!

UVM solves half of this problem with the Catamount Commitment fund. Any in-state student who receives any amount of funding from the Federal Pell Grant gets their tuition waived. This is about ~19k of the 33k a year cost from tution + room + board. There are also student support services groups at UVM (not the TRiO program though which they axed aimed at helping out for financial aid/scholarships.

Absolutely not going to take your argument that middle class/lower middle class students get shafted by UVM. It's fairly obvious from any high schooler's UVM financial aid package shows this issue exactly. A good portion of in-state tuition is offset by the high cost of out-of-state students since there are more out of state than in-state students. (Side topic but this data shows exactly how much and there's almost more MA students than VT students)

However, your point of the majority of the students here are high achievers due to coming from well-off families holds true at least from a personal observation standpoint. There's still the issue that UVM has to (partially!) have high tuition due to insufficient funding from the state/feds, but that's another argument I do not know enough about to make a comfortable analysis. Hope whatever I said here helps you argue how fucked the situation of inequality is for Vermont students where our only in state option for accredited STEM degrees is locked away behind a paywall which most of us cannot afford.

The Macy’s still stands and currently serves as the location of BHS.

I didn’t add that bc, people pay rent regardless. 2nd, UVM accepts in state credit more often than not they don’t. 3rd, there are 82 VT high schools vs around 2200 UVM students from VT, half of which are going for free.

My kid is probably going to get the G & G but won’t be attending UVM because she’s got better offers OOS. Back to your original point, UVM is expensive but not unaffordable. As for equity, the UVM promise makes it so anyone who’s parents make under 60k a year, can attend for free. It’s easy to say that college is unaffordable, but if you dig in a little, that’s just not true.

I’ve heard it’s got it’s ups and downs

you dont work in IT do you?

I am just waiting for you to pull the race card for this person calling out flatlander trash doing flatlander trash things.

I mean yes, they are. Being a shithead isn’t dependent on your income status. I was a shit head and just finished paying off my student loans. Why the hell do you guys hate rich people so much. I’m a million in debt and don’t give a fuck how much money someone else has.

I agree, instate tuition should be free up to about $100k family income. Then graduated to about $200k toping out at about $10k/yr instate tuition.

Long story short, my mothers side of the family (Gallant) is at least 7 generations VT. They snuck over the border from Canada some time between the Revolution and the Civil War.

You can't have any substantive discussion of VT policy without first providing your VT bonafides. Unfortunately I grew up on the other side of the lake in NY where my dad is from. I have been a VT property owner for 40 yrs and f/t VTer for 20. I went to an Ivy league school in NY where the total ticket was $7200/yr. You could buy a brand new VW Beetle for $2995 that year.

My fraternity brother and roommate was from the same town as me, yet I had never met him before college. I thought that odd because I new most all the tall black men from my hometown that ran HS track, like me.

Turns out he was new in our town. His family had just moved to town so his dad could take a job with the state. "What agency?" I asked, because many families in my middle class neighborhood worked for the state. "State University" he told me. "Oh, what job?" I asked, my best friends dad worked there, maybe they were acquainted? "Chancellor" he told me.

I was a (lower) middle class kid, from a neighborhood full of state workers and laborers and hourly wage earners, not executives.

His dad had been hired to run the NY State University system. He had been hired specifically to cut costs, close up to a dozen State Colleges and Community Colleges and cut the budget by hundreds of millions of dollars over a period of a few years.

First thing 'Cliff' did was visit every single State College and CC in the state, ALL 64. He spoke with deans, faculty, unions and community leaders. Most of the colleges in NY are actually Upstate. This was during the recession of the 1970's that featured high unemployment AND high inflation, stagflation.

As a Harvard and U of Chicago PhD. trained economist, Cliff understood that the colleges were the economic hub of these small towns. Closures would be devastating. He also understood the value of the human capital created at these colleges. He knew that the only chance many of the students at these schools had of improving their lives was to get a college degree.

When Cliff reported his findings and his decision to the NY Board of Regents who reported to the NY legislature, they were pissed. His mandate was to cut costs and close colleges and he refused to do either. He insisted MORE investment was necessary, not less.

Fortunately he had a reluctant ally in NY Gov Hugh Carey who had been re-elected in 1978. Cliff was able to charm the NY State Legislature through numerous hearings and various types of financial legerdemain to balance the budgets and get the necessary funding.

Cliff could see companies like Corning Glass and Xerox and Kodak and Polaroid and IBM all needed an educated workforce to succeed. They needed to fill jobs that required skills and a technical education. Cliff could see the impending personal computer revolution starting and the economic impact that would have.

Cliff got his funding and got his wish to keep ALL 64 colleges open. Even though the number of HS students in NY is LESS THAN HALF of what is was back then, ALL 64 colleges are STILL open to this day, and thriving.

Cliff went on to receive an honorary degree at UVM in the 80's. He became the Chairman of the Rockefeller Foundation and the CEO of TIAA-CREF and turned that pension fund around, quadrupling it's assets in just a few years and instituting numerous organizational changes. After TIAA-CREF Cliff went on to become the Undersecretary of State in the Clinton Administration.

When he was hired at MSU Cliff was known as 'the the first Negro president of a major predominantly white college in the country.' He insisted on wider financial aid and need blind admissions at MSU. He was then the first African-American to lead a Fortune Fifty company.

VT needs a visionary like Cliff. Or at least someone who understands the value of a college degree. We have a Governor that sees the State contribution to the Univ and State Colleges as a 'gift' a line item expense. He doesn't regard the Univ and State College as an investment in the future. He's a cheapskate who led the charge to withhold more state funding to the colleges when he was in the Senate and he's only now agreeing to pitch in a little extra because the state is flush with Covid Cash.

VT has one of the highest HS graduation rates in the country. But of the top 20 states with high HS graduation rates we rank LAST in percentage of students who matriculate to college. Why is this? Likely sticker shock. Our CCV tuition is near the top of nationwide CC tuition rates. Same with UVM tuition.

CCV offers almost nothing of interest outside classes. They have no gym, no dinning halls, cafeterias, dorms, intramurals, intercollegiate athletics, clubs or extra-curricular activities that help to lure students. Nothing. Go to neighboring states NY and MA and their CC's are like real colleges at less cost.

The State Colleges have changed names three times in the last four or five years. And in that time frame FOUR VT colleges have closed their doors forever!

The state, led by Gov Scott, let four colleges with hundreds of acres and hundreds of thousands of square feet of floor space, and hundreds of employees fall out of active educational space.

With just a little bit of creativity, these spaces could have been part of the State College system. They could have been Incubator Spaces, Co-Working spaces, places for emerging technologies and entrepreneurship.

Our Governors only solution to the aging population and shrinking tax base is to import remote workers. And he'll use the 'Covid exodus' from cities to VT as proof positive that his plan is working.

It's not working. A few areas of the state are doing well while others are floundering. The kids in those areas will not thrive, they will not do well and they will likely leave VT and look for better jobs and lower costs elsewhere, most likely the American South.

In-state education, combined with internships, entrepreneurship, maker-spaces, co-working spaces; these are the things that keep people here and help build and preserve the tax base.

Your username is definitely accurate. You are not the sharpest 1. Lmao

I'm waiting for your perspective on this.

I'm mostly in agreement with you, and very good for your kid!

It's the middle to lower middle class who get pinched. It doesn't take much to get to $60k. Single parents (9 out of 10 are women) OK $60k is more than average. But, godforbid, a two parent household, $60k is easy to get to with two modest incomes.

Also ,VT HS kids matriculate at a lower rate than all other HS students in states with comparable HS graduation rates. What does that tell you?

I agree, not unaffordable, but you gotta convince the VT HS kids of that. The only thing more expensive than going to college in VT is NOT going to college.

I'm making pretty goddamn good money now.

The instate/OOstate tuition gambit is the same at virtually every state university. Total costs are typically 2:1 out vs in state. VT is little different in that regard.

Where VT is unique with the exception of other tiny population states near large population centers like URI and UNH (excluding the military academies) UVM is 4:1 out vs in state. Those students still are admitted need blind (allegedly) and receive financial aid. I would wager, however, that a large percentage of the OOstate students parents just scratch out a fat check come tuition time.

And don't forget the Chinese students who pre-pandemic numbered 500 and received ZERO financial aid. They were the biggest cash cow UVM ever saw. UVM would happily kick an in-stater to the curb in favor of a Chinese if they thought they could get away with it.

The Green & Gold program, Catamount Committment and the UVM Promise (under $60k income) program starting Fall 2023 are all recent programs initiated within the last five years.

I still maintain that $60k is not a lot of income in VT. And realistically $100k is not a lot in certain areas, especially when faced with a $33k four year annual bill, even accounting for aide of as much as half.

If you burden your kid with say $15k x 4yrs, student loans that's still a heavy lode to carry. And certainly weighs heavy on grad school decisions. With so many employers requiring degree inflated credentials of masters degrees, it's a lot of pressure on kids.

VT has a long way to go to educate a workforce, keep the kids in VT, breed more VTers and increase the tax base.

Here https://www.uvm.edu/studentfinancialservices/uvm-promise#:~:text=Under%20the%20UVM%20Promise%2C%20admitted,a%20waiver%20for%20the%20University

I guess lol, if you wanna get technical though, 77.4% of UVM undergrads this semester are from out of state, so it is statistically likely that the perpetrators are from out of state. Oh and that is all info from the UVM website.

IUEC is the union of elevator workers, if you go on their website they will show you when the recruiting is happening. It does take some time to get in but once you are in it is well worth it

When I was there they just spread the charges to every resident in the dorm. Including when a pipe burst and someone tried to clog it with a rag

Agreed, but there is a HUGE need for tradespeople in this state, but lack of housing is hurting growth in this state.

Am I the only one who reads this thread title and either plays air guitar or give the ‘hang loose’ motion? Or just imagines ‘Exxxxxtreeeemmme’ from the Do The Dew ads?

Exactly!

That's where our CCV is a complete and total failure.

We could have annexed the four failed VT colleges into the VT State College system, wiped out CCV as it stands, and incorporate trade schools into the State College/CCV footprint.

Every building trade now requires serious knowledge of computer hardware and software in addition to the specific trade.

Every HVAC system, electric supply, plumbing, design/build, solar, everything now requires extensive use of computers, hardware, software, testing equipment, field assembly, etc.

There is only VTC in VT to train young wo/men to break into these fields and these programs don't necessarily lead to an AS degree.

It's not like the good old days where you can pick up a hammer and learn a trade. Who's going to train them? Using what standards?

One school in Williston does not serve the whole state.

Go over to NY and almost every CC has a building trades program. If you're not the most interested in college you can stop at the AS degree. If you want to go on you can take it to engineering, architecture, etc. HVCC in Troy, NY allows you to transfer from CC to RPI's engineering program, one or the best in the country!

Our entire post secondary system in this state is week as hell!

I agree with you 1000%!!!!

When I was in college, I got a bill for well over $100 for shit I slept through and wasn't witness to. Following semester the other people named someone who had rich parents and had already left the university--didn't reverse the bill.

[removed]

Hard to say, there are so many administrators with dubious titles and fluid responsibilities. It's difficult to nail them down on who's in charge of what. If Pres Suresh really wanted to make an impact he would streamline operations.

[removed]

Listen genius, 'market rate' is not determined by what the University offers. They would get plenty of applicants for that job at $80-90k/yr.

Half of these admin jobs are glorified paper pushers that make zero executive decisions and just go through the motions.

They don't make sales, they don't generate revenue, they don't bring added value. They're just filling a role.

[removed]