Comments
Optimized_Orangutan t1_iwm3gmr wrote
I didn't say that as a joke.
Rincewindisahero OP t1_iwlccse wrote
I know if I left my business signs just dotted around vermont I would get a fine for sure. I understand it takes a while but it’s been over a week since the election and aren’t politicians all about doing things? Getting things done? I know I sound a bit like a Karen.
Coachtzu t1_iwlg0rs wrote
They had the infrastructure to put them all up, they can find the resources to take em all down imo
currentlyacathammock t1_iwogbox wrote
Well, it's a catch 22... If they get elected, they could be held accountable. If they lose the election, "it's not my fault there's trash everywhere - must be the fault of the people in power"
sad0panda t1_iwm7uak wrote
Like they have in New Hampshire?
> 664:17 Placement and Removal of Political Advertising. – No political advertising shall be placed on or affixed to any public property including highway rights-of-way or private property without the owner's consent. All political advertising shall be removed by the candidate no later than the second Friday following the election unless the election is a primary and the advertising concerns a candidate who is a winner in the primary.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXIII/664/664-21.htm
> The court, upon petition of the attorney general, may levy upon any person who violates the provisions of RSA 664:16-a or the provisions of RSA 664:17 relative to removing, defacing, or destroying political advertising on private property a civil penalty in an amount not to exceed $1,000 per violation
My read on that is the candidate is liable for $1000 per sign they fail to remove.
Coachtzu t1_iwma85h wrote
Interesting, I read that as it being a $1000 fine to remove or deface a political sign on public or (someone else's) private property without their consent. Not a $1000 fine for the politician if they don't remove them. Could be mistaken though.
sad0panda t1_iwme8hl wrote
Yeah, I think that's the intent as well, but the language of the penalty section just refers to "the provisions of RSA 664:17 relative to removing" so I can see how it could be broadly interpreted to mean either someone who removes a sign when they aren't authorized to or a candidate who fails to remove their own sign.
Kiernanstrat t1_iwm2uk3 wrote
Unfortunately it would just be too easy for someone to move or put up signs that the candidate isn't aware of.
Optimized_Orangutan t1_iwm3w1t wrote
So that will discourage them from making the signs to begin with. Malloy getting his ass handed to him despite his mad sign game is all the case study we need to know that they are a massive waste with no practical upside... So fine them enough where it's not worth even making the signs to begin with and we get both of those birds stoned at once.
ellusiveuser t1_iwon3u0 wrote
"The roof was golfin', son?"
Optimized_Orangutan t1_iwywwgb wrote
It's all water under the fridge
Kiernanstrat t1_iwm4c62 wrote
I'd love it if political signs were outlawed but I don't think this particular issue is worth creating and enforcing a law over.
Ok-Title-270 t1_iwmhoh9 wrote
You'd love to have our first amendment rights taken away? It's so important that they put it first
KITTYONFYRE t1_iwmphlq wrote
is our current lack of billboards taking away our first amendment right? no. I don't think banning political signs (or at least, banning these signs spewed out everywhere by everyone) is infringing on that right.
Ok-Title-270 t1_iwmu44c wrote
Not allowing commercial advertisement on a rented billboard is entirely different than not allowing individual political discourse on private property
Coachtzu t1_iwon1fp wrote
I think this conversation was revolving around the placement of these signs on public property. Nobody really cares if someone leaves their Malloy signs up in their front lawn, it's the fact they're strewn up and down the roadways.
KITTYONFYRE t1_iwmullt wrote
by that logic, why can't i individually have a sign for myself as a baker on my private property?
Ok-Title-270 t1_iwqdifa wrote
Because you're advertising a business, which is trade meaning the government has the right to regulate that. They do not have the right to regulate your speech in terms of expressing political or other opinions
KITTYONFYRE t1_iwqe2q8 wrote
Fine, want to go put out your own political signs? Go for it. Want to hire a business to do so? Or pay someone to do so? Not allowed
I dunno. You're making sense, and I'm just barfing onto my keyboard. I haven't put a ton of thought into this exactly, but there should be some sort of restriction on this stuff. It's just such a waste.
Ok-Title-270 t1_iwof5ij wrote
That's an ungrammatical sentence
KITTYONFYRE t1_iwpv9kq wrote
yeah i missed a word. fixed
Coachtzu t1_iwm3602 wrote
Yeah that's a good point. There has to be something beyond just "oh he lost let's let the snowplows get em" though lol
Formal_Coyote_5004 t1_iwn4v3s wrote
Omg that’s like the ultimate walk of shame
Coachtzu t1_iwn89fo wrote
Ultimate walk of shame would be the loser has to pick up everyone else's signs too!
Formal_Coyote_5004 t1_iwn8oun wrote
Yessss! Well… there are multiple losers right? I just imagine them all scrambling like rats. But honestly they should be responsible for these dumb signs. It really is littering. Also I’ve never really been convinced that signs like this are a good method of persuasion… I’ve never seen one of these signs and been like “oh yeah definitely voting for them!”
Coachtzu t1_iwn9zhd wrote
I think they should be held liable for anyone in their race lol. So like Malloy is responsible for the welch and Malloy signs.
Totally agree it's littering.
I think there is actually some evidence it does work in terms of people being predisposed to not want to be the odd man out. You drive down the street and it's all Trump signs, you might feel like you should vote a certain way to fit into the community, or vice versa if it's a bunch of Bernie or Biden signs.
[deleted] t1_iwle1zj wrote
[deleted]
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_iwlh2dw wrote
I could be wrong but I think it's just the state right of way's like state highways and roads. Towns can make up their own patchwork of rules. We have political signs all over my town including on our town common area. Pretty sure it's just a state thing not local.
HardTacoKit t1_iwl7v5n wrote
It took you longer to make this post than it would have taken to go get the 2 signs and throw them in your bin.
ProLicks t1_iwlaxv4 wrote
a) You can't remove political signage from another person's property, for multiple obvious legal/social reasons and
b) Malloy deployed massive amounts of signage, and it's his responsibility to pick it up. I hope that people see how much of a shit this carpetbagging loser actually gives about Vermont by seeing him leaving his garbage strewn everywhere across it.
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_iwlgp3e wrote
A and B are not compatible. If you can't remove a sign from someone else's property how can it be Malloys job to pick them all up? You might have a hard time understanding this but most likely Malloy himself placed zero signs and many were put up by regular voters aka citizens of VT therefore not his job to collect them on other peoples land. Of course ANY campaign or politician should clean up their crap but seems you might be a bit blinded by hate on this one.
ProLicks t1_iwlo39p wrote
The campaign responsible can - and should - remove them. The last task volunteering on campaigns in my experience has been doing just that, going to all the places you dropped or installed signs and picking them up.
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_iwlst4t wrote
Not arguing with that at all as long as it's not private property. If you read my comment I agree they should be picked up. The issue you gloss over here is that it is not the campaign nor the candidates job to pick signs up from private property nor should they as they are not property of the campaign if a person puts them on their own property. That would be theft. You admit as much in your original comment. I have over the years had a sign or two at the end of my driveway. I put them there and would not expect anyone to take them and I if I caught you doing so on my property well lets say there would be problems for that person. Public is one thing private another. Again seems your hate for this guy is clouding your judgement here. We have property rights in this country. Sorry not sorry if that's a problem for you.
thisoneisnotasbad t1_iwlgv2x wrote
This is just kinda wrong. He no more deployed the signs then Brenda or Scott did for governor. Provided them but making the candidate responsible for cleanup or fines lends itself to a system ripe to be gamed. Like let me take thousands of Zuckermam signs so he looks like an asshole when they are not picked up.
*reddits inability to have a rational discussion is both what makes it so disgusting and so amusing all at one.
ProLicks t1_iwlocco wrote
The signs didn’t just magically appear, people requested them from or allowed them after an inquiry from the campaign. They DEFINITELY know their supporters eho received them, that’s crucial info. They need to take responsibility for their garbage.
thisoneisnotasbad t1_iwlou31 wrote
Once someone else takes ownership of it, it is not their garbage anymore. Same as every other political signs left out.
ProLicks t1_iwluj1g wrote
…And yet, my lawn signs were picked up by volunteers or the candidates themselves, as has happened every year for decades. Is it legally required? No. But it sure shows me who gives a shit about Vermont.
thisoneisnotasbad t1_iwlvum9 wrote
Really, your bar for who cares about VT is people picking up campaign signs?
We have very different expectationa of our politicians I guess.
ProLicks t1_iwlxtkg wrote
Those signs serve one purpose only, to get them elected. If they think that standing for office here doesn't involve picking up after your campaign, I don't think they have the correct mentality to take responsibility for spending my tax money.
thisoneisnotasbad t1_iwpgf9i wrote
You already said you can’t take them off private land and towns are already empowered to remove them from public rite of ways so are you advocating for trespassing and theft of private property? Explain it like I’m 5. How does a sign cleanup driven by a candidate work? That is the candidate you want? The one who steals other people’s property?
ProLicks t1_iwpl5cx wrote
If a campaign places a campaign sign on your property, they come back and remove them. There are literally volunteer groups on (well run) campaigns that do this exact thing - usually the same people placing the signs requested online in the first place. Because they are they are representatives of the campaign for which the sign was printed, the understanding is that they will also remove any signs that they place.
The person who posted here is not a campaign volunteer or the landowner, they are a neighbor - a completely uninvolved party. That person has no right to remove any signs from anyone else’s land.
thisoneisnotasbad t1_iwpnqlx wrote
So a volunteer run program. That makes sense. That in no way makes the candidate responsible though. The responsibility is still 100% on the sign owner to opt in and uncollected sign would still be a reflection on the individual, not the candidate.
ProLicks t1_iwpob54 wrote
Wrong. These are campaign volunteers who are organized at the behest of the candidate. Just let it go.
thisoneisnotasbad t1_iwpomnn wrote
Ahhh, so now you are saying you won't vote for a candidates whose volunteers don't do this? That is not what you said originally. You are changing your story now.
ProLicks t1_iwpqfwe wrote
>Ahhh, so now you are saying ...
LOL, you've got me now, detective!
You're correct in your assertion, but I haven't changed anything with my argument. Because the candidate has control over who volunteers on their campaigns, and who they appoint to different campaigns. As you so cogently pointed out earlier, the candidate doesn't do all of the work themselves, they have people that they pay as well as people who volunteer their time in support of their candidacy...but in the event that the any of those people fail to meet the standards of conduct set by a campaign, the candidate is responsible for policing those actions. You haven't caught me in a loophole, and I haven't changed my argument friend - I wouldn't vote for a candidate whose volunteers didn't do this, because that candidate is probably terrible at managing the people supposedly working for them - they can't even coordinate volunteers to pick up their own garbage, how are they going to run a government?!
Look, this has been an absolute hoot, but I'm done explaining how electoral politics work. Please ask your civics teacher, or if you're someone who has already gotten beyond the reach of our educational system, volunteer on a campaign. I've done it multiple times over many decades - it's the source of most of this understanding - and it's taught me a lot.
thisoneisnotasbad t1_iwprcqp wrote
Ohhh your done explaining now? That's very mature of you. Multiple times over multiple decades huh.
You changed your story twice at this point and again you still have not said anything. You seem very ignorant of how things work. What campain did you work on.
Can you cite any candidate who does this statewide? I kinda doubt it.
Intelligent-Hunt7557 t1_iwole5l wrote
You really think someone can litter like that and it doesn’t say anything about their campaign? It’s symbolic and predictive. ProLicks was clearly not saying it was the only requirement for office. Try to think past your hate-boner for Dave Z. I know, I know, bOTh SIDes!!!
thisoneisnotasbad t1_iwpfgsd wrote
Again, as I said, once someone else takes ownership of the sign, it is no longer the campaign’s garbage.
The previous poster is directly correlating in the responsibility of a volunteer in a specific location to the overarching value of the candidate on the sign.
That is an extremely ignorant and shortsighted position to take.
Also, why do you bring up Zuckerman or boners? I used him once in this thread as an example in how a fine based system could easily be gamed. I think I actually used both gubernatorial candidates in that same post.
I don’t think I have once implied my political leanings here and yet you somehow come to the conclusion about my politics. The unfortunate part of Reddit is the hypocrisy. Politics has become a sport and fans of all teams are too blind to engage in critical thinking. People like you who say things like “Both sides” embody the problem. Rather than look at a candidate in a state of local election to determine if they represent you and your values you automatically assume whichever team you are on is right and the other team is wrong. Instead of assume that, in VT at least, most people are doing what they think is right you think all Republicans are closeted homosexuals who hate women or all Democrats want to make ever child change genders. You seem to lack the basic ability to make a decision based on the facts in front of you and justify or ignore facts about people on your team.
Maybe you will eventually realize it, maybe not, but the real issue is between the rich and the poor. A system has been designed which pitches poor people against each other fighting for scraps while the rich get richer. It is easy to convince people like you that the Republican Party is full of Nazis or the Democratic Party is full of pedophiles because when we fight each other, we won’t fight them.
Companies are about to start laying off hundreds of thousands as we enter an economic downturn and you want to argue about David Zuckerman because you think pointing out his past somehow equates to hate. (I also called him an asshole but really, spend even a hour with the guy trying to get something done and you will agree)
The world is going to shit and you are 1/2 the reason why. Read some history books, get off social media (Reddit is ok if you only troll /Vermont) and ask yourself, why does it seem that since 1980 regardless of who is in office, we only see minor change.
Anyway, hate is a strong word. I can happily say I don’t hate anyone today. I do think you are a fucking idiot but that is a different story, maybe you will decide to change, maybe not. Either way, I’m finishing my morning coffe and need to get ready for work. Have a good day, a bad day, in between, I don’t really care because to me, you are just another idiot on Reddit.
*I also just noticed that almost every time I post about David as it relates to this election you bring up Malloy and respond. Are you stalking me?
Intelligent-Hunt7557 t1_iwqkrtu wrote
I responded because you seem to intentionally misunderstand the nature of people’s posts and then haughtily complain about the low quality of Reddit posts in general. Like, show you care about having a normal interaction by not leaping to name-calling and escalation. Don’t crap on bystanders and wonder why Reddit is a cesspool.
thisoneisnotasbad t1_iwqo4iz wrote
Do you have a hate-boner for me. Why are you stalking me. I think this needs to be reported to the site admins.
*If you read his post it has so far changed from candidates to volunteers to supporters. The guy is making shit up to fit his narrative and is pissy he is getting called out for it.
Intelligent-Hunt7557 t1_iwqthbz wrote
Again, responding to someone’s comments is not stalking, even if more than once. No need to escalate. There are different ways a sign can end up on public or private land. Ultimately it’s the candidate’s responsibility to pick it up if’s on public property or they put it up without expressed consent (which is alleged elsewhere)
thisoneisnotasbad t1_iwrru50 wrote
If it is on public property the town can and does collect and dispose of it. If it is placed on private property, then it is the property owner who should remove it, otherwise how do you know if the there is consent.
Neither of those represent only supporting a candidate who makes sure a team of volunteers pick up signs after an election because a failure to do so means they do not represent VT. (Which is what the other poster asserted)
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_iwlt8kd wrote
> They DEFINITELY know their supporters eho received them
LOL They hand that shit out like candy it's free advertising they don't track who has a sign good lord.
HillRatch t1_iwm1p9n wrote
Most organized campaigns do actually keep track of who their strong supporters are.
Real-Pierre-Delecto2 t1_iwqxre8 wrote
Sure the big ones like Trump, Hillary etc when you buy them online but even then they give out thousands for free. Half the candidates here in VT hand them out at county fairs, old home days, parades and they like. They are certainly not taking down your address and info.
thisoneisnotasbad t1_iwmjf9f wrote
Ok.
Rincewindisahero OP t1_iwl9vlw wrote
Hey, I didn’t put them there. I’d hate to be accused of stealing someone’s property.
Weird-Mix-8279 t1_iwll25s wrote
Have you already knocked on the neighbors door and talked to them about it?
Rare_Message_7204 t1_iwm1enx wrote
I said the same exact thing!! Easy problem to solve yourself if it's on public property.
UJ-4310 t1_iwlnugo wrote
Wherever you go Vermont...I'll be watching you. Nothing escapes the notice of the Eye of the Eagle! Let me give you a scenario. You're out with your partner at night. You hear a sound in the bushes. Is it just your imagination??? OR IS IT ME--EAGLE EYE MALLOY--LURKING IN THE SHADOWS??!!! Sleep well, Vermont, sleep well... Arrghg hahahaha!!!!
JustARando321 t1_iwmhpxh wrote
What if they made it like soda cans, you bring in x amount and you get paid?
woburnite t1_iwlcyeu wrote
Time for some target practice with your paintball gun.
Deathcrush t1_iwldm1d wrote
Plenty of space on those malloy signs to write something like "you lost, lol" or something. I typically don't respect that kind of unsportsmanship, but they're just asking for it at this point.
Amplify_Love4715 t1_iwlr2tz wrote
Agree with that thought. If they plaster them all over the place by the hundreds and don’t go pick them up after the election (win or lose)they simply become another type of trash on the road. I believe Unlimited Artistic license (with humor or sarcasm) is thereby granted to those who must constantly endure this public eyesore in state whose economy is dependent on its beauty!
JerryKook t1_iwlh3bt wrote
The Rohan St Marthe signs really caught me by surprise. Right before the election they popped up everywhere. I had never heard of him before. Looking at his LinkedIn profile it looks like he lives in Boston
random_vermonter t1_iwmzd2u wrote
Is this a joke candidate?
JerryKook t1_iwnktok wrote
Yes
[deleted] t1_iwnc51k wrote
[deleted]
Intelligent-Hunt7557 t1_iwlgdzq wrote
If this is private (and by the fence/railing I’m assuming it is) then it’s the landowner’s responsibility, much as I dump on Malloy whenever possible. Or I guess I should say I assume the owner put these up not a campaign. Herpes-like infestation that Malloy signs are, if his people had not respected private property rights I would have expected to hear by now.
ArkeryStarkery t1_iwnves6 wrote
You hadn't heard? It's been all over this subreddit. They put signs up on other people's yards, in front of abandoned / empty houses, all over.
Intelligent-Hunt7557 t1_iwokp90 wrote
Yes please post, it’s not all!
Distinguished_Parrot t1_iwmaxvd wrote
Has Malloy permanently redeployed back to Maryland yet?
cwillm t1_iwltz9e wrote
Sadly, if it’s on someone’s private property, they can display it in perpetuity if they want 🤷🏻♂️
Rare_Message_7204 t1_iwm148m wrote
Instead of making a reddit post couldn't you just go take them down? I know "it's not my job"but seriously, if it bothers you it wouldn't take much effort to fix it. We've gotten to the point of being a bunch of whiners..Just fix it.
Edit* if it's on public property*
Rincewindisahero OP t1_iwm8gs0 wrote
I totally hear you. But I have been informed that people have been charged with stealing when they have taken them down. Apparently there is some sort of rule that they have to take them down within a certain time. No idea what that limit is tho.
ThisistheInfiniteIs t1_iwmxb50 wrote
If it is state property, the taxpayers pay the state highway crews to collect them when irresponsible candidates do not see to it that they are removed before then.
Here are the state rules for political signs
Otherwise there are usually town rules that dictate the placement and duration allowed on political signs, including those on private property. So if it is not in the state right of way, then I would ask down at your town office, or just look up the rules on your town website, if you have that option. You can then complain to the town when they are found to be in violation of the ordinance and they will deal with it from there.
Rincewindisahero OP t1_iwn3yhb wrote
Thanks for this info
ThisistheInfiniteIs t1_iwnjgym wrote
You are most welcome
Beneficial-Crow7054 t1_iwmnlbd wrote
So its on someone else's property and your bitchin because why? If its litter pick it up if its someone else's its not your problem.
CXB1313 t1_iwmxo6x wrote
hey why not just mind your own fucking business and try to live and let live, vs being a whiney sniveling cunt?
or did you think that being said whiney cunt would get you some free karma for punching down?
He's a loser, everyone knows it now too. Take the win and STFU
random_vermonter t1_iwmzl22 wrote
^ found the Malloy supporter ^
CXB1313 t1_iwpmdfx wrote
seriously can't stand that dude and did not vote for him.
Rincewindisahero OP t1_iwn24xd wrote
I am not a voter. Sorry you seem to be full of anger.
CXB1313 t1_iwpma1o wrote
just tired of petty ass bullshit like you're propagating on here. your entire post is petty.
angry, I suppose a bit yes. Mainly at people like you who just seek to keep petty bullshit going.
molehills to mountains is not what we need right now. We need unity, as a state and nation. The kind of shit you posted does nothing but create derision for no discernible reason.
nobody needs petty bullshit dude. yet you attempt to breed it.
grow the fuck up. go find some shit that matters to use your energy on
bitching about your neighbor having his yard signs up a week after the election like it's something needing a law passed is pathetic bud.
Rincewindisahero OP t1_iwpn748 wrote
Sorry I offended you. Just want Vermont to be beautiful man. You speak of unity and yet you spew anger.
I believe that you are exaggerating the message behind my post because you have a political stance in this race. I love this state and would have done the same thing if Peter Weltch’s signs where still up. Reddit is for discussion and swearing and name calling don’t add to the conversation.
I again don’t vote and have no horse in this race. Whatever you need to project onto my post is fine but just acknowledge that’s where this is.
CXB1313 t1_iwpz2qp wrote
Vermont is beautiful. thinking otherwise, because your Neighbor left some signs up you dont agree with...then coming on here to piss and moan like somebody kicked yourr puppy is Petty AF.
Mind your own. Live and let live.
Vermont has so much beauty all around. you chose to see only the thing you don't think is. on your neighbor's dirt.
go practice being a Good neighbor maybe with all your spare time and quit being petty.
Pettiness does absolutely nothing to help with making "Vermont beautiful"
CXB1313 t1_iwpzo2s wrote
also, i have no political stance in this race. As i already stated, I didn't vote for the guy. As a non-binary person, pretty sure that would have been like shooting myself in the foot. so no. Just can't stand people who make mountains out of molehills and whine incessantly like wee petty bitches. Drama. SMH
CXB1313 t1_iwmx31v wrote
effin A Cotton...effffin AAAAAAA!
coldnight3 t1_iwls2pd wrote
I've been messaging the VTGOP on facebook every day to come get their litter. Join in, its fun for us.
Sdwingnut t1_iwlwymz wrote
Close enough to the road for an "Oh sorry I backed over your signs... 6 times" moment.
[deleted] t1_iwl79dl wrote
[removed]
SemperFuu t1_iwlnhvs wrote
There’s still all of them around the state, not just that asshat. Want me to post pictures of them too? Please stop and downvote this stupid post
Pizza802 t1_iwluf61 wrote
Pleasantly surprised that all these garbage signs were gone last Wednesday morning where I live.
grnmtnboy0 t1_iwmiam8 wrote
One alternative is they make really great target holders for the rifle range, especiallyfor the adhesive bullseye targets. (No, I'm not advocating shooting anyone)
VTtransplant t1_iwmmad4 wrote
From what I've seen, most Malloy signs were picked up right after the election, along with a good number of other contestants. Benning and Siegel, on the other hand, had a lot still to pick up.
peachboot828 t1_iwo3klk wrote
Same deal with all of the Klar signs around Orange County. It’s over, y’all. You spent thousands of dollars and dozens upon dozens of hours to deploy those…now come get them. It’s as bad as a billboard.
Essarray t1_iwotiw9 wrote
Is that the "plastic bag draped over wires" type sign? Because they can definitely be repurposed as shit mitts or wastebasket liners.
EquallyMercurial t1_iwp71qq wrote
I used to just run them over with my car. Looks like you could trim that corner there pretty easily.
Enough_Camel2650 t1_iwmsxc6 wrote
Probably the same time every other person picks up their shit, which traditionally speaking is; never.
zkentvt t1_iwm0w72 wrote
This channel really has a crush on Malloy. It's like MDS.
Anxious-Captain737 t1_iwmgt1z wrote
Well Welch is working for the people give him a call maybe he will do it for you. At least that wouldbe something for once he would have done
pro_conser333 t1_iwmy6bz wrote
When are all the murdering baby supporters going to take down their signs? I’m tired of looking at them.
raydiantgarden t1_iwnedc5 wrote
what is a murdering baby supporter?? why are the murdering babies killing their supporters??
Coachtzu t1_iwlbina wrote
Someone said this as a joke a while ago, I would love to see legislation making it a requirement for candidates to be responsible for taking the signs down from public property or face a fine of some sort.