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headgasketidiot t1_ivpy4nj wrote

I also found this baffling, but after talking to my less plugged in neighbors, I think there are two big factors at play.

First, Vermonters, and Americans in general, culturally value judging an individual based on their own merits. Scott has come out against Trump and doesn't act like the nutso Republicans. I think regular people really respect that even though it's misguided, since his affiliation with all those lunatics is entirely voluntary. People say things like "you can't judge him based on his party," when judging people by the company they choose to keep is actually such commonplace advice it's even a common idiom across several languages ("a man is judged by the company he keeps " in English; "Dime con quien andas y te diré quien eres" in Spanish).

In fact, it's not just voluntary; it's strategic and mutually beneficial. He shares campaigning resources with other Vermont GOP politicians as well as national Republican governors. He attends fundraising events with the Desantis and Abbot. Organizations like the Republican Governor's Association put money into his campaigns because they know Scott can raise funds from donors that would never go near someone like Noem. His very presence at these kinds of fundraisers launders the image of the entire party.

Second, I think he plays into a common American fear. Vermonters know what policies would make our lives better, and we elect legislators who support those things. But every time in all of American history someone has pushed for social progress, businesses tell us that it might force them to lay off workers. They say it'll cost jobs. It's a threat. We've internalized this threat so much that I think we're afraid of progress. We're afraid of it even though we don't need to be. Literally the entire rest of the world has paid family leave, and they're all super happy with it. Every other developed nation has single payer healthcare and much affordable or free higher education. We know what we need to do, but we're too afraid to do it, so we elect Scott. He vetoes paid family leave, higher minimum wage, etc., with his Uncle Phil demeanor and tut-tuts about fiscal responsibility. It plays directly our fear and we absolutely eat up the "bipartisanship" of it all, especially since people see him as someone who has proven himself by rejecting Trump and such.

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5teerPike t1_ivpzw5j wrote

I don't like it, but that's not your fault and you did an exemplary job explaining this thoughtfully. Thank you.

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headgasketidiot t1_ivq0ngh wrote

Yeah i don't like it either. He's just a really good politician.

Also this is my own analysis so grain of salt. I'm just someone on the internet lol

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headgasketidiot t1_ivt9daf wrote

Also I just noticed: is your username a gormenghast reference??? I love Mervyn Peake!!!

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5teerPike t1_ivt9f61 wrote

Yes! Me too!

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headgasketidiot t1_ivtagu2 wrote

Omg!!! No one ever knows about him and i don't know why! He's so fucking good!! His illustrations too.

Did you read Mr Pye too? So different from gormenghast and yet so clearly from the same strange and wonderful mind.

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5teerPike t1_ivtxkli wrote

I'm working through them lol

There's a great sub on Reddit too, I've posted some Fanart over there a while ago!

My husband got me into it and I've been very into it ever since :)

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[deleted] t1_ivt4q4t wrote

You make a good point about the company you keep. However, I disagree because I think we should value the individual over the party. I say this because I don’t 100% agree with the standard Dem or GOP party line. I want a politician to represent me that has supports policies from both sides of the aisle. If you meet those needs, I don’t care if it says republican or democrat besides your name.

The one thing I would like to see on the fed and state level though, is an end to the preference given to seniority, majority, and party. Like the chair/ranking member system for committees incentives party unity which isn’t actually good for Americans in general (I think).

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headgasketidiot t1_ivt6b9y wrote

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but in your analysis of voting for the individual, I ask that you take into account the full picture.

Being part of a party is a lot more than the letter besides your name. Like I said in my comment, Scott participates in Republican fundraising. He is part of fundraising organizations with some of the worst politicians in the US. This organization has an annual operating budget of almost $100 million, which they deployed to help flip Virginia on a bullshit CRT panic just last year:

>In 2021, we sent shockwaves across the country when we helped flip Virginia blue to red.

He's also happy to take their money:

> ... the Republican Governors Association, which has spent millions of dollars on super PAC ads backing Scott's candidacy.

Scott might use his words to criticize the national rise of the MAGA movement, but he collaborates with it and supports it with his actions. If you take that into account and still decide Scott is your man, by all means, but don't let him and others pretend like being a Republican is just a letter next to your name. That's a trick they're playing to keep your attention away from the huge fundraising machinery the party operates in the shadows.

edit: typo

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[deleted] t1_ix5ekyj wrote

First off, thank you for having a meaningful and civil political debate. It’s is appreciated even though we disagree.

While I think you are right, that the letter next to someone’s name is more than just that, it’s also not the ONLY thing that characterizes them or what they represent. As a voter, especially in a gubernatorial race, I feel better served voting for someone that most closely represents me rather then doing so because they are a republican or democrat. If memory serves I’ve split every ballot I’ve ever voted on.

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headgasketidiot t1_ix5hjkz wrote

There's a really good book by Milton Mayer called "They Thought They Were Free." He was a Jewish journalist that moved to Germany shortly after WW2, where he befriended former Nazi party members and wrote about them. It's been a long time since I read it, but it really affected me, and what I got out of it was that regular people supported the nazis and the holocaust without really actually meaning to. They didn't even seem to have particular animosity towards Jews.

One of the people Mayer details in the book is a banker who joined the party late in its rise and was honesty pretty clearly never really super into it. This is what he told his long-time Jewish friend about his joining the party:

>With men like me in the party, things will be better. You'll see.

Days after that conversation, kristallnacht happened.

It's a bit of a theme in that person's story; the idea that good people in the party thought their membership in it was harmless, or could even help moderate it. Obviously, they didn't. In fact, that same person talks about how deeply he regretted his decision to join. He says the moderates who joined the party ended up making the extremism of the party possible.

Scott sits down, breaks bread, and actively collaborates with Abbott, DeSantis, Noem, and other actual fascists. That's a serious lack of judgement for even a regular person, but it's unacceptable to me in a person in a position of power. When I think about the lessons of history, I just can't forgive that.

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Sparrows_Shadow t1_ivr3osf wrote

While I do want many of these progressive things, they still cost money. A lot of money that we simply don't have in this state with the amount of people + the cost of living.

Get more people to move here, build, and then lets have a convo on those progressive ideas.

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headgasketidiot t1_ivr5g3j wrote

This is the fear I'm talking about. Every single country has paid family leave but us, including way poorer and less developed ones. They all love it. It's just us.

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Sparrows_Shadow t1_ivr7atb wrote

It's not fear, it's data.

Places that have paid family leave have at least 1 million people living in their country. Can you find me a place that has any less 1 million people and paid paternity leave?

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headgasketidiot t1_ivr979h wrote

I happen to know cyprus just expanded its parental leave last month and has less than a million people.

https://cyprus-mail.com/2022/10/04/eight-weeks-paid-parental-leave-to-be-paid-for-all-parents/#:~:text=Parents%20with%20children%20up%20to,Kyriacos%20Koushos%20said%20on%20Tuesday.

That's off the top of my head because i happen to have a friend there. It's every single country. I guarantee you i can find you more if you're still not satisfied.

It's not data. It's fear. You made up data that isn't real to rationalize your fear.

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