A lot of the attitude towards out of Staters stems from the state becoming more and more un-affordable. People are sick of people coming up from Boston spending a fortune and making everything more expensive for everyone else. They feel like they are being pushed out of the only home they have ever known, and in fact they are. Wages do not match rent in this state, so unless you have a good job, good luck. This turns into resentment and anger towards the people who come here with money to blow.

It’s bristly on Reddit, and can quickly turn sour if you come in to Vermont and want to change it.

If you treat Vermont and Vermonters with respect and kindness you’ll get nothing but the same in return.

Treat vermont like your own personal playground and act like you’re better than us, gonna be a different story

We bristle when entitled people bang into our home calling us backwoods morons who should be grateful for their money, and mock us when we get upset at having parts of our state bulldozed to make way for them. But who wouldn’t in that case?

Welcome! Glad you’re finding out we don’t bite, and neither do the bears!

I did some carpentry for a recently moved to Vermont North Carolinian. A really nice guy but he got into a real stitch if the mail carrier wasn't punctual (not even a thing in Vermont) and if the mail carrier didn't pick up his mail when his flag was up. He was pacing back and forth and declaring who he was going to call, complain to, demand answers from. City Hall would hear from him. Told him he could do that. He might never see his mail again. Everybody knows everybody else. If he really wanted results, he might consider leaving the mail carrier a nice card, meeting him on the road and being neighborly. As far as I know, he followed my advice. He's still getting mail.

Lol you’re from the deep south; things move at a slower pace and people are generally more kind and neighborly. VT hostility towards out of staters is aimed at those from the city who drive 100 miles an hour, honk there horn relentlessly and treat locals or workers like second class hicks.

It sounds like you are coming to VT from a different perspective than some of the other flatlanders that we don’t like.

The ones VT’ere don’t like come from NJ or Boston driving a new Range River and buy out a 100 acre plot of pristine forest, cut down 10 acres of beautiful healthy trees and replace that with a 6,000 sq ft “farmhouse style” McMansion complete with a golf course lawn.

I think some of this is jealously, some of this is annoyance at rising property values, and some of it is how it impacts the otherwise middle class simplicity of classical VT.

Rest assured, it's not all out of staters, just the entitled and ignorant ones. There's a bunch of em too

I think you nailed it. When we first moved to Vermont plumbers and electricians would not return my calls. A neighbor said to say he recommended I call when leaving a message. Calls started getting returned. Simply too many entitled arrogant people from out of state think they are doing Vermont a favor by bringing their money.

Here in southern Vermont we’re inundated by the classless wealthy from the tri-state area (Ct/NY/NJ). They are generally rude, narcissistic, shallow, and refuse to display any manners if graciousness (please, thank you, excuse me). These are the types of ghouls who are bristled at, and rightly so.

Here’s where I get mad. I live on a beautiful dirt road in the middle of nowhere and enjoyed having no neighbors. On a road two miles long, 4 houses get built in a year and a half. Then the 100 year old plus maple trees that lined the road were fucking cut down by one of the new people. It was like they couldn’t just leave well enough alone. They probably have ‘climate hero’ in their twitter bio

Sorry. I’m a born in Mass. raised in NH and moving to Maine person who got suggested this.

This isn’t just a Vermont attitude. You see it in all of New England. And in my experience people will bitch but if you’re coming in and being a part of your community. Not trying make it your old neighborhood you’ll be welcome. My wife started a job in mid costal Maine working on a boat. She uses that area like other boat workers do and has had no problem fitting in. I plan to work local business when I get there. HellIf you have new ideas. You will be welcome if you talk to us right. If you come and add too much change too fast, and pretend a local economy doesn’t know how it will be affected you will find people are unhappy. Especially if the prices you bringing push out the local workers.

Things change over time. It’s not reasonable for me to be mad over new things being introduced slowlybut if you’re coming and asking for a system to be changed immediately you need more than “because this is how we handled it here”

If the a-holes from New Jersey that I always sense Vermont locals are “stand-offish” toward. As a life-long Jersey Shore resident who is in Vermont every winter I don’t blame the locals one bit. It is embarrassing being in VT with Jersey license plates. Collectively we Jerseyans are ignorant, impatient, and disrespectful to Vermonters. I apologize Vermont. I promise to not act like Jersey when in your amazing state.

Many of the people here on reddit give VT that reputation. The reality really is quite the opposite.

I'll always find it funny that our VT subreddit is full of mostly liberal/progressive mindset people yet they act so intolerant to many things and people.

Sssshhhhhh. You keep telling people this, and they'll all want to move here. /s

Seriously, I was a transplant. Awesome, very welcoming place. People can take a little while to thaw to you fully, but they are always nice.

I'm an out-of-stater and I have had no trouble adjusting to life here. However, I come from Colorado and The culture in Colorado is relatively similar to how it is here in Vermont. I'd say the major difference is in Colorado we like to chill and Vermont people like to be nice. Which works out great even if they aren't exactly the same. There were some differences like getting used to people being overly nice (especially while driving, my gosh the difference in the number of people who take/give right of way is insane). I've never had trouble getting appointments (except dental) and most people are friendly as long as you are friendly first. This I think is the key. The people here in Vermont are skeptical of staters because many out-of-staters aren't friendly or try to shove their values down your throat which Vermont wants none of. They just want to be themselves. I can respect that. Also, be careful of the culture shock coming from the south. Vermont is rural but it is a different kind of rural vs the south or west. To be honest I do prefer Vermont Rural vs Rural out west because rural out west is the "GET OF MY PROPERTY" ultra-conservative type who just hates anyone who doesn't look, talk, think or act like one of them. Never had that happened here in Vermont. Even people in rural parts of the state are super friendly and compassionate which was a major shock to me whereas out west the rural parts are more insular.

You still have a ton of NIMBYs here in Vermont though just like out west and that is my only gripe with the culture. NIMBYs are fucking everywhere. I understand the sentiment but NIMBYism is not a good way to preserve local culture.

As a 57 year Vermont resident, I see people that complain about “flatlanders” are complaining about people they actually don’t know. But transplants that move in next door are welcomed with open arms.

It's really just about rich assholes. And there should be a different name for it. Richlanders? Karenlanders?

We are kind of bristly by nature because we don’t fuck around. But, welcoming outsiders is necessary for many reasons, especially our shrinking population of younger folks. Plus, in the words of Ashley Nicole Black, we’re the most “diversity craving white people” (see here: https://youtu.be/lr7VpjFPGvk). We need more diversity in Vermont so by othering every transplant, we self-sabotage.

Traditionally, a lot of people also try to take advantage of Vermont’s hyper local political scene since we are so small. If you want to learn more about that, read about Jack McMullen vs. Vermont icon, Fred Tuttle. And there are a few like that in our Vermont’s senate now 🙃. Anyway, Vermonters don’t mind new residents, but our attitude is very much “eat the rich.”

I moved here from Portland, OR earlier this week. West coast people are fake-nice. People here are genuinely nice.

Same as New York. Nothing but gracious folks here in upstate. When I cross into Vermont, I have nothing but great interactions.

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In Vermont almost everyone's kind. There's some places that aren't as kind in the state. But those are far out in the county. Also my mother and some friends love hearing southern accents so it's always a plus up here.

I moved from the shorline of CT to southern VT in Cavendish. I love it here.

Literally everyone i have met is amazing. None of that NY/CT/RI/Mass attititude of “me first, out of my way, no time to talk” it’s been 100% friendly, helpful folks that see you working in your yard and stop by to offer help.

Online, in FB or Reddit it seems to be the opposite. The “fuck off we don’t want you here” comes from the seemingly younger crowds and the anonymous users of the area.

Some of the Facebook groups can come off pretty elitist and don’t seem to really be interested in helping anybody that’s not from Vermont figure out how to fully integrate here.

On Reddit, where things are more anonymous, people flat out come off as vitreous or mean.

Welcome. You are our kind.

People who are pushy don’t last.

People who are kind and patient tend to stay.

I’m a dreaded NYC transplant and have really enjoyed the people here thus far. Not quite having luck making friends but people are perfectly kind!

It really depends on the context of the situation as well and the culture the “flat lander” is coming from. Some folks from very outgoing places feel we are cold because we don’t hug every person we meet or greet every person we pass on the street.

Also, don’t come here and start telling us why our way of life or politics etc are wrong. That I think will rub anyone the wrong way. I hate transplants that are like “yeah I had to leave California, it’s such a disaster politically and economically” and then try to push for policies that mimic the same place they came from.

I moved up last year and everyone I met so far has been alright. I don't try to change things because I am not from here, but the best thing I can do as a transplant is vote, be a good neighbor and be kind.

I've found myself yelling "Go home!" to out of staters who nearly run me off the road. All the property is bought up, posted, and then seldom used. Rich folks come and try to mess with the hunting/trapping laws. The tourism has increased drastically and with it comes the destruction of the south end of willoughby lake and littering rude ass holes. Lots of little annoyances. I love meeting new people and making new friends but i want to be able to afford to live in my own home.I just want 10 acres and a small home to pursue my dream projects but it's impossible to afford even a half acre of bare land. I love this place but I've had an awful pit in my stomach for a while now. There's not much I can do but hope it doesn't get ruined any worse

It’s old Vermont vs new Vermont. New VT is more transplants then people born and bred here. Most people who were born here move away the first chance they get. Remember VT and Wyoming are the only 2 states with more second home owners then primary

It's mostly tourists that the hostility goes to.

If you are willing to move there. Or make some sort of commitment. You get a welcome wagon.

🤫don’t tell too many people we are nice up here or they all will come. it’s taking a lot of effort to build the reputation that we aren’t nice. Now don’t you go ruining a good thing for everyone.

we mostly get pissed at new yorkers or bostonians that come and bring bad driving and upper middle class money

It’s all about Bernie.

Lol Reddit makes Vermonters look bad. I moved here from the Midwest and had the same kind of experience as you. Have made some of the coolest friends since moving here.

The hostility only comes from miserable people like those that tend to frequent this sub. I’ve had the same experience with people here out in the wild.

That falls under the category of “ fuck around and find out”. Don’t be an asshole and most will return the favor like for like.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Welcome to Vermont :)

I’ve only ever met nice people when I visit my friends in Vermont (:

There's a lot to be said on this. Vermonters will absolutely help you out in a pinch. We're generally good people who are really about small communities and helping out neighbors. It's a truly wonderful state.

That said, the frustration that you're hearing about online is coming from people being upset about out-of-staters moving to Vermont and rising up the cost of housing and rent. A lot of Vermonters who have lived here for a long time are being priced out of their homes and communities and neighborhoods. For a culture very "about" community, that's really really difficult for many of us.

I know you love vermont and we are happy to have you but just know that this has been hard for people. They won't express it in person, but the general thought is there and it's not about you in particular, it's about the overall shift.

There's another component, too, which is the attitude that some people who move here (not you, necessarily, since this post seems to be pretty kind) have about Vermonters. But for some people there's a little bit of looking down their nose at us. Almost like we're country bumpkins. I see a lot of Tik Toks and instagram posts like "Oooh I just moved to this quaint place! Look how cute all the people are!"

Again, this particular grievance is not about you but it does make a lot of us Vermonters bristle. It's not "quaint and cute" it's a state full of complexities like every other state.

The bottom line: everyone moves here some time. None of us is really native to this area, but those of us who have called it home for a long time have deeply engrained traditions and love for our communities that should be respected. If people can move here without jacking up the price and while respecting our community traditions, I hope this transition period will go alright. And welcome. I hope February isn't too cruel :)

> Then this weekend I got locked into a situation at a bar where I was waiting for food and getting my ear talked off by some pretty condescending (and high volume) people from Boston and Jersey, and I was like, okay I get it. I was the bristly one.

lol

Glad you like it here. We like you too. <3

When the population is small, it’s easy to care about others. I love it up here because the Vermont attitude is one that remembers how much we need each other to survive, and thus helping our neighbors isn’t a favor or optional. It’s just what we do.

I’m debating moving from TX to VT in the next year or so. I really need a break from this place and your comments are very reassuring considering I’ve hear a lot of bad things.

I’m from Florida and as you can guess it’s a literal nightmare. I see that happening in New England and it sucks. I love VT and hope it can prevent what happened in Fl from happening here.

It’s mainly about flatlanders being assholes and we cant stand it but as long as you show respect and kindness, we we have open our arms

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Sometimes they’re ’nice’ to you just for the stories to tell other Vermonters…

Outsiders move here, then become aggressively active in local politics and set about to make Vermont exactly whatever place they came from.

Just follow the golden rule and you're fine. Treat people the way you want to be treated. Peace love and chicken grease man.

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I came here from Ohio this year and found the same thing to be true. People are friendly and helpful.

Lots of vermonters are very welcoming and happy to have you. Just like any state, we have 4th generation alcoholics that blame all of their socioeconomic problems on the "other" (tax heavy democrats, flatlanders immigrants)

As a southerner who may be looking ti move to VT in the next few years, this post gives me hope

I feel many southern states can relate to Vermonters. I would imagine a 4th generation Tennesee native wouldn't appreciate city folk from NJ or CT coming there to stir shit or push their lifestyle onto a small Tennessee town. We generally don't mind out of staters and most are fine. It's the condescending ones and leaf peepers at Quechee we can't stand.

I mean for fucks sake they're trees and it makes no sense they come all the way up here when upstate NY and hell even those states have autumn foliage. It makes as much sense driving 3 hours from Arkansas to Texas to stare at cacti and hold up traffic because you're doing 15 under the speed limit.

Also side note is I love how out of staters act like they're doing a favor for us when they come up for sky season because it helps the economy. You know who else comes up here then as well? Jamaicans, Dominicans and folks from Latin America. Not hating on them and infact I respect the grind but that's less money staying in VT and America as a whole.

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Around here we just hate tourists. We don't mind people from out of state at all and will be as helpful as we can be and even share all the hidden gems.

But when leaf peepers come to town? That's where the hate for outsiders starts. They drive slowly and don't oay attention. And because of it they cause car accidents. They fill up parking spaces to shops they dont go to. They crowd sidewalks or block off traffic to take pictures or just to chit chat with each other. Hell one time on a back dirt road a guy was painting a fall picture of the mountains, in the middle of the road. We had to ask him to move so we could drive home. They're inconsiderate and tend to be very rude. If you ask them to move you get nothing but attitude no matter how polite you are. These people even go into people's yards and walk through private property for videos and photos or better views.

It's obnoxious.

So around here we just hate leaf peepers that come to town every autumn

We're mostly hostile to outsiders that try to run for our political offices.

In my opinion, as one of those bristly natives. 99% of the flatlanders or transplants that move in are from New England and NY and in general are successfully turning our state into what they left. I hear a southern drawl or a Midwest accent and I’ll be much less stand offish. I think the motto people need to live by when moving here is “fit in or fuck off”

I think the reputation fits. We are hostile to people that don’t respect our people and our surroundings. If you enjoy our state and respect your time here, should be a great time.

That’s good to hear, I know some Vermonters to be pretty cold towards non-white outsiders.

I was born in Vermont, definitely has gotten worse especially if you don’t fit their norms or follow their COVID rules even outside. Usually I see it from boomers and older people but occasionally from the college age folks too. I live in the west now and then almost moved south too. Both those places much more happy and friendly people. Maybe it’s the cold😂that has them being sour.

Don't assume that all Vermonters are "bristly". You kind of did with that your first sentence. You sound nice compare to the last southern transplants that I met, who were rude and white-trashy.