Also one of the most progressive, best educated and least religious.

It's almost as if if these correlations seem to track for a reason?

It’s the prettiest one too.

I've been to 49 states (need Hawaii). Decided a long time ago that Vermont was the best place in the country. Safety is just one part of it!

Its because we all dont go near each other

We all have some of the least restrictive gun laws in the country. Loaded concealed carry with no permit.

i'm not introverted everyone else is fucking nuts

Not me, everyone else is

What’s the second best?

safe is boring

A one way ticket to Baghdad is cheap this time of the year.

So does Texas. Not sure if that's a major contributor toward safety. Feels like quite the opposite down here.

I mean, your chances of being stomped into a paste by a moose is significantly higher than most of the rest of the country

Mass and CT are up there too and have some of the strictest gun laws. New England in general is very safe

Kherson if they are feeling bad ass

I feel like Vermont being safe has very little to do with gun laws (or lack of)

I feel like the gun laws of Vermont work simply because of the people of Vermont.

Sheesh someone should tell r/burlington . if you only get your news there you’d think vermont was a dystopian hellhole

My next door neighbor lived in Hawaii 20+ years and retired here (Vermont).

When we got to Vermont, the first job I got just until I could get a permanent job, was as a helper on a UPS truck. The driver would get a note on his computer that would say, "Open garage door and leave package on the table." Coming from where I did, it was incomprehensible that someone would actually leave their house unlocked and tell someone to come in. I was hesitant about it but my driver assured me that's just the way it is.

Username checks out.

10 years ago I would have said Minnesota. They seem to have gang and crime issues now, maybe because Minneapolis got too big. Maybe its still #2 except for parts of Minneapolis though. So, hmmmm..... while I'm tempted to say Wisconsin, I think Washington state has it beat in terms of geographic beauty and climate. I'd have to look more closely at Oregon and Idaho too - I've been to those states only once. But if you need a firm answer, Washington.

I’ve lived here almost all 31 years & only seen about 6 or 9 swamp donkey’s

Probably can't afford to retire in Hawaii

They love their pit though

[removed]

Came here to champion constitutional or “Vermont carry”. We should be proud that this doctrine is named for our state. I’m glad to see your comment in the positive.

Exactly! Low cost of living and so near to Montreal!

people in that sub would not survive in Baltimore. Or any city in New Jersey

still haven't decided if I don't lock my door because the people are nice or because I live in the woods

I would imagine it’s hard to be mean when you’re full of Cabot vermont sharp cheddar. 🤷‍♂️

must be in the NEK

I've lived here thirty years and still haven't seen one.

I'm at 50, I think you're right. Hawaii is nice and you should check it out.

It's a tough toss-up between Washington and Oregon for me. Oregon has the better coastal areas, but Washington's wilderness is a little more rugged. Some areas of Oregon are more charming, but their equivalents in Washington end up being more enjoyable because they're not as crowded (with the major exception of Mt. Rainier and anything else near Seattle). They both have universal mail-in voting (good), and constant forest fires (bad).

Alburgh and ILM are still pretty cheap if you don't need employment.

Mogadishu, or Port au Prince if you want a short flight

For my entire childhood until well after I graduated from college, my parents' house was never locked. I never owned or even saw a house key for our home.

I moved here from Philly… the idea that Barre is “scary” is absolutely hilarious. Sure there are small town problems here with drugs and little bouts of crime, but you’ll find that anywhere that humans exist. Vermont is fucking wonderful.

I've had 4 or 5 moose sightings and encounters while riding my bike in Vermont. One was in North Ferrisburgh in the middle of the day.

Now that you mention it, ive yet to see someone sad eating cheese

You wouldn't know it in Burlington.

And homebrew. Vermont has the most breweries and distilleries per capita of any state.

As a VT native but current WI resident i can assure wherever the former ranks the latter falls far, far lower. It's amazing how Walker transformed this state, the cynicism of his governance continues to grow in the culture here. Our midterm political ads right now are legitimately insane and so, so hateful and it's a reflection of us. Also I miss access and beauty that a right to roam culture and stewardship culture built in VT dearly. My hyperbolic quip to outdoors lovers who have never lived/explored here is that wisconsinites only know how to enjoy the outdoors if they're using a motor or trying to kill something and ideally both.

When you ask someone to smile for a picture, you tell them to say cheese.

In Idaho there was a bull moose that lived on our property with his girlfriend. She'd come up and eat the apples on our tree, and he'd stare at her in love. :)

In Vermont I've only seen a Moose twice so far. Many times more sightings of bears, bobcats, fisher cats.

You definitely see a lot more if you're out on a bike since it's easier to quietly approach animals.

Yeah, it's a tossup for me between Vermont and the Palouse (Inland Oregon, Washington, Idaho area).

The neat thing about Burlington is that it's so close to Vermont 😉

California tends to get the most attention for forest fires, but it's important to remember it's a problem with the northern neighbors as well. Hard lines against logging combined with stewardship issues have not helped either.

fires are making that area a lot worse

I overheard some of my co-workers talking the other day how they won’t go to Burlington anymore because the crime is out of control.

Not just the people, but also the lack of people in Vermont.

But the FEAR of crime is rising.

Even in central vt it is closer than Boston! Well depending on what roads you’re near.

Burlington is what happens when they make the hit TV show Portlandia real.

It’s this right here.

Maine

It's had the probably it's always had. The police recently charged someone with the first homicide Burlington had this year, and with that all the homicides we had have been solved or resolved. Drugs and thefts seem worse and that sucks. We should get on that. Vote!

But what about the bears!?!

With how much harm happens to non-white folk (the indicators used in the study) this seems like we’re just bragging about how white and not poor the state is.

Barging into a random cabin in the woods is the start for a lot of horror movies, so joke's on them.

If I could nominate a SLICE of another state I would say the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Durable, happy people that resemble Vermonters in some ways, Lake Superior is gorgeous, and Marquette reminds me of Burlington, energy-wise. But the main “mitten” part of Michigan is kind of woolly — right-wing militias, etc.

Seattle had the worst air quality index in the world last week. I was there for work a few weeks ago and the plane descended through sky that looked like L.A. smog in the 1970s. They were warning old people and asthmatics not to go outside. It was sci-fi-level dystopian.

Of course it is, there is no urban cities. Look at the demographics.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/states/vermont-population

We pretty much never lock our doors unless we're away overnight.

That was the real point. Gun laws don’t make people more or less safe. People make people more or less safe.

We used to run a country store in central Vermont and people would come in. "I hope we get to see a Moose!" I was like, I have not seen one in the past 5 years but good luck!

I have seen more Moose's in Northern NH or out west than VT. The one exception was one year at Mad River Glen where was one hanging out in the Shithouse woods(woods inbetween chute and fall line) all winter and we saw it at least 10 times. It was actually kind of friendly.

We actually don't have the key to our front door, but it can still lock. If that happens we have to walk around to the door that just has a knob, no lock.

We leave ours open even when we leave 😬

We also have great neighbors.

I’ve been in Vermont for 14 years and have my sights set on Oregon.

Until about twenty years ago, we would go on vacation for two weeks and leave the house unlocked. Once we tried to lock it because there had been some burglaries in the neighborhood. But we couldn’t find a key. So we just shrugged our shoulders and left for the airport.

Crime is down since 1700

I’m nuts and introverted

Don’t tell this to r/Burlington they believe there’s nowhere that you can leave your home and car unlocked Edit: nowhere in vermont or USA from what I’ve gathered* Seems like not many have lived in diverse areas of rural, country, city etc from different parts of USA

I miss Hawaii. Lives there three years, amazing

Tell that to the Burlington sub 😂

I mean, I'm not really complaining. I've seen videos and pictures, but I also know how big they are and how bad they could fuck me/my car up, so not seeing them in person is ok by me.

yeah more specifically I meant like the entire social structure of Vermont is completely different from.. well, most places.

Me neither. But definitely everyone besides the three of us.

My UPS guy often comes and hangs out in my garage lol.

Yesterday I gave a complete stranger the code to my garage so they could get in and get some cash that I was leaving them for some wood they were delivering. Don’t plan on changing the door code either!

Same. It wasn’t until a few years ago when a neighbor had a break in that they started locking it.

We moved to an even more rural town and our neighbors JUST started locking their doors this year after we had a break in.

Demographics

Who said that

Strangely similar as my next-door neighbor. I guess they had a house here and a house in Hawaii and when it came time to retire, they sold their house in Hawaii and retired to their house here. Definitely the opposite of what I would have expected.

ETA: But if I had been in that position, well, same...

I asked this sub for advice before my first visit to Burlington and so many responses were about how to stay safe. I was visiting from Baltimore LOL

I live in Burlington and had to leave the sub. I came here from middle of nowhere Midwest I know, I’m a flat lander) and for a city that’s half the size of my hometown Burlington has 1/100 th of the crime (statistically speaking, not exaggerating). The constant moaning and griping about how nowhere is safe and ‘I’d never bring my kids there’ on that sub was too much. I love my new hometown too much to spend time listening to people hate on it with overdramatic criticisms.

We were pretty good about locking our doors when I was growing up but we really doubled down after our house was broken into and our puppy stolen when I was in 6th grade. My parents have since moved to somewhere more remote than where I grew up and they still lock their doors

Honestly, had stuff stolen off my porch and from my unlocked car when I lived in burlington and s. Burlington. So…definitely a thing to think about there

TIL that "Swamp Donkey" may refer to a moose.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=swamp%20donkey

Grew up without a house key. No just me, but the whole family. Not a single key to our house existed. Front door, back door, and garage door remained unlocked 24/7. Even to this day

We grew up with guns and were taught to understand and respect them. It's kind of like teaching kids safe sex and seeing the drop in teen pregnancies.

It would be safer if it weren't in America.

I feel bad for Minnesotans. Most are intelligent and nice people. But they have the ill fortune of being surrounded by North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, and Wisconsin. I feel bad for any inland state full of intelligent and nice people, such as Illinois, New Mexico, and Colorado.

Fun fact: Essex county is the only place in Vermont where the median wage earner can afford the median house.

ever been to Rutland?

Don't tell the people at /r/burlington this.

People get too worked up about guns on both sides.

Guns by themselves don't cause crime.

Income inequality (not absolute poverty), cultural values, age and gender demographics, family structure, and parenting styles are the primary drivers of crime.

A society with a lot of family breakdown will have a lot of crime.

A nation with a medium median income and a high Gini coefficient will have more crime than a nation with a low median income and a low Gini coefficient. This is why Latin American nations tend to have higher murder rates than Central African ones.

You can arm every single 60+ year old woman on earth and they will still have a lower rate of crime than if you took away guns from every 20-39 year old man.

East Asian nations tend to have lower rates of crime than Western, Sub-Saharan African, and Latin American nations of the same median income and education level.

So that's where Rutland Beerworks got the name...

No it's not. It's not significantly different from NH, ME, or Western MA.

It's not absolute poverty. It's income inequality. Societies where almost everyone is poor but there isn't a huge Gini coefficient tend to be safer than societies with a medium median income but a very high Gini coefficient.

Also I'm not sure if being non-white has anything to do with it. East Asian nations tend to be less violent than Western ones once you control for income and education.

Depends on the town lol I woke up this morning to flashbangs going off in the apartment a few houses down from me

Due to forest fires, those prevailing winds really screw Seattle over

No clue where our house key is

They’ll by singing about how crime is through the roof and they never shop downtown anymore.

When I lived in Burlington I would leave my bike kickstanded on the front lawn unlocked. Never touched left like that for 2 years.

People check the door handles on my car every night in burlington lol. You really dont wanna leave your doors unlocked.

I think you gotta keep in mind thought that people on burlington just aren't used to it. Like 6 or 7 years ago it was like how the rest of this sub is describing the state. Now theres comical levels of petty theft with a market right down town in a park where you can buy the stolen stuff. Its like entertaining but infuriating at the same time lol.

Native Portlander that moved to NH 2 years ago. It’s super fun if your younger and single. Not a great place to raise kids IMO. The scenery is ridiculous but there’s too many people to enjoy it anymore 😢

Still getting used to New England but it’s been pretty dang nice out here so far.

Same, guns were tools and we were taught to respect them and use them as children.

Part of it for us is living out in the woods out of sight or earshot of neighbors, a locked door is hardly a deterrent. If someone wants in the can just break a window and no one will know.

My UPS guy hangs and smokes weed with me and shoots shit about old dead shows we saw.

Also the second fewest police officers per capita

Barre is VT scary. There is no location in VT that is really scary. There is no place in VT I would feel uncomfortable walking home at 2:00 am. Unless it's animals. Coyotes used to bark at me from the woods when I walked the class 4 road home as a kid.

Hell yeah!

Yeah the reason he hangs with me is because we have a really strangely setup house where delivery people never know where the hell to drop stuff. The closest door to our driveway is our detached garage door so they often leave stuff there. I also happen to smoke in my garage right around UPS time...well one day he delivered something and i heard a "sniff, sniff, sniff, DAAAAYUMMM man that smells good!" Look toward the door and see him cheesing giving me a thumbs up. Now anytime he's delivering he comes right to the garage and hangs out for a few. Sometimes I'm up in the house and I can see the disappointment on his face when he goes to the garage and I'm not there lol.

Usually my dog goes and hangs out in his truck while we chill in the garage lol. He often finds a Chewy box to molest.

Works nicely to be so nice to your UPS guy - we have a parcel locker down at the end of our private road but he always makes an attempt to deliver straight to our house unless weather prevents it. We had a baby this year which meant TONS of huge and awkward things getting delivered (I'm looking at you 170lb crib). The dude literally dragged it into my house for me despite that very much not being an expectation. A week later a 100lb changing table again and a substitute UPS dude left it in a mud puddle in pouring rain at the end of my road.

does everyone have to be pedantic

I had a sense of that. Portland has never appealed to me. I primarily fell in love with Bend/Mt. Bachelor, the proximity to certain national parks (and western Canada terrain), and of course the short drive to the beautiful Pacific coastline.

Well then, why has Bennington county had two murders and a bunch of shootings this year? That’s not really safe when you think about the population numbers

I'm from Central Vermont and have lived in LA for over 12 years and I'm sure folks would come here and think they're gonna die within 12 hours here lol

Actually, its a little more complicated... we have the lowest population in the country... so of course crime will be low.

We are in new england, which nationally has the lowest rates, but out of those states, we have the most.

The violent crime rate fell in 39 states and Washington, DC between 1991 and 2020 but ROSE in Vermont by 48%

https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-have-the-least-and-most-crime/

We have the lowest crime rate in the nation. The nation includes new England. Are you picking and choosing data to fit a narrative?

my house isnt locked. a bunch of houses on my street got robbed too but i didnt know until after the fact 😭 truly amazing how they didnt break into my place lol

No, I'm engaging in data analysis. We have a lower crime rate than Guatemala, but that's not a useful data point. So yes we have a lower crime rate than massive inner city areas in the south. What we're going to compare ourselves against is pretty important, so the fact that we have the highest violent crime rate in New England is quite important.

I can't engage with you in good faith when you're comparing an idyllic sleepy state in America with Guatemala. And what is this contorted statistic about violent crime you keep repeating?

I have a feeling that you have an agenda.

I absolutely have an agenda. As a former high school math teacher it's mathematics....

Because nobody lives there LOL I think Vermont is the second least populated state (Wyoming holding down the 1 spot).

Bend and surrounding areas a beautiful but it’s crazy expensive out there. If you can afford it I say go for it!

Smith Rock is absolutely stunning

My driver was a great individual! I really liked working with him. And work I did ... Oooof, I've never had a more physically demanding job. I started UPS busy season a week after I got there, so it was a great way to learn the Rutland area where I lived. He gave me home made syrup and some other Vermont stuff when it was over. Oh yeah, I got bitten by a dog, too 😭 Good times!

Or heady topper

I’m more a Zero Gravity guy myself, but yes.

curious how you figure that everyone in the Dakotas, Iowa, and Wisconsin is stupid and unkind. That sure sounds like it's just your own personal ignorance

more like this "study" has a garbage methodology that just rewards wealthier, more rural states. Utah is 4th, and Iowa, Idaho, Alaska, Wyoming, Indiana, Arizona, and North Carolina all rank above New York, California, Illinois, and Colorado.

If you lined these all up by their score and their Cook PVI, average partisan vote share over the past ten elections, or whatever else you wanted to use to represent their ostensible "progressiveness", the R-squared value would be quite low.

Progressive and non-religious is the measure for safety? Sounds like LA and NYC must be even safer then. Maybe you should think about the actual reasons rather than trying to shoehorn in your personal politics.

"Vermont will not apologize for it's delicious cheese!"

Gun laws certainly can make people more safe. Look at Canada, a country with significant gun ownership. A Canadian has to jump through quite a bit more hoops than an American to own a gun. The process takes a considerable more time in Canada, ensuring fewer people who shouldn't own a gun can't own a gun. However, many law abiding citizens who pose no threat to their fellow citizens are approved for gun ownership. People with mental health issues, drug issues and domestic violence histories are much more likely to not be able to buy a gun.

• You have to take and pass a firearms safety course in Canada.

• You have to buy a weapon through a licensed firearms dealer, or if making a private transaction register the transaction through a licensed firearms dealer.

• Those who wish to obtain their firearm licence must pass background checks which assess the applicant's criminal record, mental health, addiction issues, and any history of domestic violence. The applicant will also need to obtain character references.

• Assault weapons are now banned in Canada, making it much less likely there will be mass shootings.

Vermont has low population, but Wyoming has like 10x the land mass of Vermont. I drove through southern Wyoming, I went 90 miles without seeing a house, let alone a town.

Fun fact - 19 states have lower population density than Vermont, including states with much higher population. Arizona has 12x the population of Vermont, but lower population density because of the desert.