Submitted by No-Ganache7168 t3_127532i in vermont
huskers2468 t1_jecrggf wrote
I'm not sure Stowe will ever be affordable. I wouldn't want much of the space filled in to increase the city density.
ChocolateDiligent t1_jee2k18 wrote
Not sure? It won’t ever be, that is the effect of decades of large amounts of out of state money’s influence on a town, they have to protect their investment.
huskers2468 t1_jee41fm wrote
The citizens of the small area are voting in their own interests, that doesn't sound malicious to me.
Does Stowe need to expand and become affordable to all?
Formal_Coyote_5004 t1_jee613n wrote
Well, Stowe has a lot of restaurants and 75% of restaurant staff commute at least a half an hour to get to work. This is probably true for people who work in hotels too. I commute an hour every day because i moved out of morrisville (I live up north now) and there are zero restaurants around me where I’d actually make money. So it’d be nice if the people who worked in Stowe could live in Stowe. Another commenter said Morrisville is an option, which is true, but most of my coworkers live in Johnson, Jeff, Eden, etc.
Edit: added on, and this was a response to the question “does Stowe need to be affordable to all?”
huskers2468 t1_jee7qmm wrote
I agree that there needs to be housing for the workers, but I don't agree it necessarily all needs to fall inside that town. I believe, with the expanding resort and local businesses, that housing needs to be built to support the workers.
The only focus is on the town itself, which is an option, but there is plenty of space between Morrisville and Stowe. My favorite spot would be to expand Waterbury center. That area has the infrastructure to support expansion. It has the larger grocery store, hardware store, gas stations, land, proximity to interstates, and more.
People want Stowe to do everything, it's just not the optimal with current infrastructure.
Formal_Coyote_5004 t1_jee9k3a wrote
That makes sense to me. I know very little about the actual politics of what we’re talking about… all I know is my own experience of working in the same restaurant for 9 years. Over the last few years I’ve noticed that workers are being forced further away, which sucks, and at the same time, the amount of people who visit Stowe is becoming overwhelming. This town simply wasn’t built to accommodate this many people. Like I remember at least two times when cell phone service straight up crashed because there were too many people in town. And we’ve all been stuck on the mountain road for at least two hours. It’s nuts. I know I’m contradicting myself here (workers should have housing but Stowe is beyond its capacity) so I think what you’re saying makes a lot of sense!
huskers2468 t1_jeebeqq wrote
I think there is give and take to both of our points. I'm not set in stone on my opinions. It's just that Stowe is a lightning rod for these articles due to the ski resort. To me, that means that actual solutions are being overlooked, and it just charges the conversation.
Please install another cellphone tower lol. It's incredible that a place with that much traffic has the worst cell reception I've seen in a decade.
>And we’ve all been stuck on the mountain road for at least two hours. It’s nuts.
I've turned around 3 times in 2 years...
At least this year felt better with the new parking limitations. However, I don't like that it's just another added cost for skiers. I'm a proponent for 2-3 bus specific parking lots near the restaurants and town. Ones that do not make 10 stops along the way. That way it promotes the businesses of the town that are away from the resort, and it provides a clear spot for free efficient public transport.
ChocolateDiligent t1_jee4ys4 wrote
It crosses the line from looking out for your own self interest to malicious when it displaces others who can’t afford to find a home or live there.
huskers2468 t1_jee5pp4 wrote
I agree that as of late, STRs have become a higher percentage than typical, but I disagree that it's malicious in an area that was built with second homes and "vacation rentals." The houses were propose built and expanded for that market for 50+ years; this is not a new phenomenon for a ski town.
ChocolateDiligent t1_jee69g4 wrote
Sure, but people still gotta live somewhere, especially those who work in those areas. What you are describing is gentrification. Just because the town was built as a resort area doesn’t mean it’s immune to criticism and good housing regulation.
huskers2468 t1_jee70ml wrote
>What you are describing is gentrification.
You are describing gentrification, and you are calling it malicious. I'm just stating the town was built up for many decades as a vacation destination, many of which were initially purpose built as second homes/vacation rentals, not displacing the locals. A fair few of locals typically profited on their homes through the years.
>Just because the town was built as a resort area doesn’t mean it’s immune to criticism and good housing regulation.
No, it just makes it the focus of the criticism. Waterbury Center would be a great place to expand housing, but you don't see multiple articles on that. Everyone just focuses on the town with the resort.
ChocolateDiligent t1_jee7ya3 wrote
A fair few who could afford to live there in the first place, that doesn’t equate to affordable. Its like saying stock holders of a company profited because the saw their stocks rise and sold when the time was right. Well if you can’t afford to buy stock in the first place it’s a moot point in the larger discussion of affordability. Stowe is the closest thing Vermont has to a gated community, its cool if you want to defend this, I’m just not going to.
huskers2468 t1_jeeacl3 wrote
>its cool if you want to defend this, I’m just not going to.
Yeah. I get that. You are doing the exact opposite. You are calling them malicious, a gate community, and soloing them out.
>Well if you can’t afford to buy stock in the first place it’s a moot point in the larger discussion of affordability.
Who says that every stock needs to be affordable? I can't afford Berkshire Hathaway, should I call that company malicious for not dividing their stock to my level of affordability?
You are attacking one town, that frankly doesn't have the infrastructure to support a massive increase in size. In another comment I pointed out that Waterbury center is a much better candidate for expansion with the infrastructure already in place. However, everyone only wants to focus on the ski town with the resort.
ChocolateDiligent t1_jeecps2 wrote
The stock analogy, is what most people subscribe to when it comes to housing, which in my opinion is sinply wrong. The main difference is that housing is an essential human right, stocks are not.
Stowe was brought up in discussion, hence the ‘soloing’ them out. This is a larger systemic issue and many other towns are challenged with the same issue, to that read, we need to fix the larger problem. But it seems your solution is a NIMBY approach, which is telling about where you land in the social economic spectrum or you are merely a hopeful projecting this life. Gotta work today, so back to the salt mine for me, truly insightful conversation though!
huskers2468 t1_jef0ckg wrote
I wouldn't necessarily state it's NIMBY, as I agreed they some housing needs to be built to accommodate the increasing workforce of the area, I just believe that there is a better spot for the majority of the housing.
Imo NIMBY would be to refuse the optimal location for the housing just to not have it in your area. I don't agree that it's optimal in a crowded tourist town that doesn't have proper traffic flow, a large grocery store, or other needed items.
Have a great Friday! Good talk.
Necessary_Cat_4801 t1_jeefra6 wrote
Stowe is such a gross, exclusive town full of rich white people from Long Island, Jersey, Massachusetts... I have no idea why anyone would want to protect that. Why those places appeal to anyone is beyond me. I understand the desire to live in a safe place but if the trade off is being surrounded by wealthy Americans, not worth it. The amount of entitlement and the lack of any diversity at all would be hell for me.
VTMike1029 t1_jeenqdn wrote
Wealthy people you mean wealthy assholes who don't care about anyone but themselves. Stowe will always be their playground and for real Vermonters who live and work there are just their servants.
suzi-r t1_jefg2od wrote
About it. Stowe used to be a beautiful village w farms. People generally respected each other
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