Submitted by BudsKind802 t3_1133zhb in vermont
mellercopter t1_j8t9k8c wrote
Reply to comment by [deleted] in Northfield's Police Chief Takes Flak for His Provocative Public Stances by BudsKind802
You spoke of using testosterone being unallowable in sports, which is false. Try reading the article I linked and you will see examples of Olympians who have transitioned hormonally and have competed after transition.
You talk about biological sex as if there are only two which is scientifically (not socially) false as is the idea of a gender binary (again scientifically and in this case socially as well).
You refer to trans people based on your perception of their biological sex which is terfy. In order to reproduce you need a person with a uterus who is capable of carrying a fetus to term, and a fertilized egg, good old science has shown you don't require sperm so your male and female requirement is inaccurate.
Referring to genetic conditions as birth defects is also incorrect.
It's not a ridiculous tactic to site the death of a marginalized community member who lived in the geographical vicinity of the same marginalized group you are reducing to genitalia. There is no push to allow men in female spaces, you're not welcome and we don't want you there. But I will welcome any trans woman who is interested with open arms.
We are discussing gender, not sex. And I have not once said that simply discussing it leads to murders, but I did say that we don't live in a vacuum in VT and our community isn't immune to the type of violence that is perpetrated against this community around the world just because VT is "progressive". Words matter, they guide action and bothering and excluding individuals absolutely leads to violence. Whether it is external or self inflicted. But enjoy your runs, cause honestly that's the top priority here right?
[deleted] t1_j8tbso7 wrote
> In order to reproduce you need a person with a uterus who is capable of carrying a fetus to term, and a fertilized egg, good old science has shown you don't require sperm so your male and female requirement is inaccurate.
lmao this is clownish. Name one person who was born from a female with no sperm fertilizing the eggs. Human reproduction requires the two sexes to combine.
>You talk about biological sex as if there are only two which is scientifically
There are in fact just two sexes. Plenty of people have deformities but in terms of species normal reproduction, it requires a male and female. In typical development without any genetic issues or deformities there are just two sexes. Denying basic facts like that is just silly.
>We are discussing gender, not sex
See you aren't listening very well. When parents are concerned about their daughters competing against males they are talking about sex. Gender is a set of beliefs and behaviors that people engage in... this isn't about whether you wear long hair or not, it's about biology. Males and females are different and the differences are real.
mellercopter t1_j8tgoyf wrote
It is very apparent you don't work in a scientific field, that your opinions (which is what you keep insisting are facts) are not based in any reality where research exists and that you are singularly fixated on continuing to repeat absolute garbage in the hopes that you're gonna stumble on a gotcha. You're right, I'm not listening because you're not talking you're writing. See how words are important. Again, if you weren't informed someone was trans in a lot of instances you would never know. It's not about sex it's about the gender you perceive someone to be and there are plenty of cis women that are in sports that you would likely label as trans using your dated assessment of what a woman should present as. Here's 75% of the work done for you, in case you don't read them one article states that trans women do not in fact dominate women's sports when they participate, in fact they lose quite often. I hope you read at least some of it and with that I'm all set on entertaining your drivel.
What do we mean by sex and gender
The idea of 2 sexes is overly simplistic
Scientists create human embryo without sperm
Transgender people over four times more likely than cisgender people to be victims of violent crime
[deleted] t1_j8thqnh wrote
Ok can you give me an example of someone who was born without any sperm being involved? You literally said that you don't need a sexual binary to reproduce and I'm very curious.
Your example of an embryo is very interesting for treating some diseases but is not in any way reproduction without the sexual binary.
In terms of sport I appreciate Scientific American as a pop culture science mag but it isn't a research study. The article you talk about makes a normative argument for your position.
This one makes an objective argument about the advantage males have. It's also an actual research paper, not a magazine link.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3
Also the articles on intersex are irrelevant. That is a physical condition that is abnormal. Transgender is a mental state with no physical basis.
mellercopter t1_j8tszwf wrote
I appreciate your willingness to engage in a good faith dialogue, sincerely.
What I said was that sperm is not needed in order to reproduce, but that you needed a fertilized egg and a uterus to grow it in. And it isn't currently needed in a ton of species and is very close to becoming a reality for humans. The research in the UK was primarily focused on creation of non-viable embryos which could be culled for stem cells which would allow for regeneration of specified cells for healing damaged tissues, regrowing tissues, treatment of ALS, Parkinson's, cancer, etc.
The focus of a 10 year Israeli study veers towards reproduction without both sperm and an egg to address all of the goals of the UK study as well as to eventually assist with the declining human population. They literally grow tiny artificial testicles in microchips which then produce sperm. They've been working on growing embryos in petri dishes and the mouse embryos have hearts and tails, they are mice. They are working on growing the synthetic embryos outside of a uterus in and artificial womb. It sounds scary, but so does one Professors recent propositions to start using brain dead women as incubators labeled whole body gestational donation. I would personally prefer matrix babies to my corpse being used as a greenhouse for humans, but I think it's also worthwhile looking into why fewer women want kids.
Your article on trans women in sports (btw there is a corrected version which outlines additional background to clarify potential conflicts of interest) outlines what the authors believe performance should look like based on testosterone suppression during transition. The article I linked was the results of actual outcomes of women's sports competitions including trans competitors and the actual outcomes demonstrate that the predicted outcomes and assumptions (word used by the authors) were not accurate to real world results.
So while hormones indicate that trans women should have an advantage, they don't perform as anticipated. Assuming someone is going to be good at a physical activity based on their physical appearance is a misnomer that also impacts cisgender athletes. Im old as shit, but Muggsy Bogues would be an armrest for me and he was an amazing ball handler. There are other factors than hormones and physique. So good news, your concerns about women getting obliterated by trans women in sports on the whole are unfounded. The original article I linked outlined several instances where trans women underperformed in comparison to women even in sports which are considered to be male dominated like weightlifting.
I think you truly believe that you are doing women a service by defending women only spaces, but I also think you are underestimating what women as a whole are capable of, and what spaces need defending. We do need men who are willing to step in and be a voice in defense of women (all women) especially in conversation with other men, but we don't need to be defended in sports from trans women. What we really need is more people in general to start raising their boys to be and do better when it comes to their treatment and perception of women. The greatest harm to women, including trans women, are the boxes we are continually expected to squeeze into by others.
I urge you to do some more research on the negative impacts of trans exclusion on both trans and cisgender kids and adults. I am happy to provide some insights based on research, but also maybe consider learning about the lived experiences of trans people in your community.
[deleted] t1_j8weubn wrote
>you needed a fertilized egg
So you are saying without cutting edge science, in the context of homo sapians the animal, we need two sexes to reproduce?
>So while hormones indicate that trans women should have an advantage, they don't perform as anticipated.
The RESEARCH ARTICLE I sent indicates the opposite. Please read it! This controls for selection bias we see in non controlled samples. It is extremely extensive.
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