Comments
[deleted] t1_j1f5fvu wrote
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FillThisEmptyCup t1_j1fertu wrote
Because he didn’t bother to read the OP.
[deleted] t1_j1ff11y wrote
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FillThisEmptyCup t1_j1fgx46 wrote
> I’m semi dyslexic so I might have missed it.
I’m a Tesla Semi so let’s AI together!
[deleted] t1_j1fhfcd wrote
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FillThisEmptyCup t1_j1fo267 wrote
Reading your profile and comment history, I’m highly dubious of your sincerity.
[deleted] t1_j1fon4o wrote
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[deleted] t1_j1cgc06 wrote
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Larein t1_j1cxw6o wrote
>Praise Gunther, good honest guy.
What? He charged a machine gun 1 minute before armistice. Fully aware that in 1 minute there would be no more fighting. Against the orders of his superior. Thats either bloodthirsty or suicidal. Stupid either case.
substantial-freud t1_j1dmnyc wrote
Suicide by Bosch.
[deleted] t1_j1d1t81 wrote
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ItsACaragor t1_j1d8h6q wrote
Even the German soldiers tried their best to not shoot him. This is a pretty dumb action really.
If the Germans had been inclined to fight him he would have been shot dead the second he poped his head out.
czarchastic t1_j1dsuni wrote
Was it stated anywhere that Gunther knew of the armistice? All it said was the german machine gunners knew.
how-puhqueliar t1_j1e2ccy wrote
it wouldn't have been much of an armistice if both sides didn't know about it
czarchastic t1_j1e3edm wrote
This is WWI. It’s not like a rank and file soldier would have a smartphone in his pocket to ding him on the status of the armistice. It can take hours for news to reach some front lines.
Even as recent as WWI, carrier pigeons and messenger dogs were used.
how-puhqueliar t1_j1e76lu wrote
it wouldn't have been much of an armistice if both sides didn't know about it after accommodating for the technology of the time.
maybe they'd do something like, say, set a predetermined time that all sides agreed upon.
czarchastic t1_j1eeoek wrote
Yeah maybe they would set a predetermined time in the future after signing the agreement to account for communication lag. And maybe frontline soldiers aren’t divulged of every detail from their commanding officer beyond when to hold or charge a line.
how-puhqueliar t1_j1eew85 wrote
if only we could read more about this exact incident or world war i generally
czarchastic t1_j1efcfh wrote
Well since you know so much, explain why soldiers were kept in formation for 5 hours after the armistice was signed?
how-puhqueliar t1_j1egaf3 wrote
cos the french command didn't want the ceasefire and refused to sign any armistice initially, it was pretty precarious
good thing the whole 'eleven eleven eleven' mantra was so catchy that everyone knew exactly when to end hostilities
czarchastic t1_j1egjm6 wrote
No, that accounted for the 5 weeks leading up to the signing. Try again.
how-puhqueliar t1_j1egq97 wrote
what was the answer you were looking for, professor? want me to just paraphrase the text of the wikipedia or is that too rote?
czarchastic t1_j1ehia9 wrote
It’s so withdrawing troops doesn’t get misconstrued as a tactical retreat. It’s important to, you know, give it time to unwind a frontline to avoid unnecessary casualties.
But again, not everyone knew about the armistice at the same time, and I’m giving the benefit of the doubt that maybe not every frontline soldier was notified in advance.
how-puhqueliar t1_j1ehzml wrote
okay
paulc899 t1_j1e68le wrote
He was ordered not to advance any further because the armistice was coming and it wasn’t worth the risk.
czarchastic t1_j1efyph wrote
I get that he was ordered not to charge, but I don’t see anywhere that says he was told about why
deeracorneater t1_j1ceeiy wrote
It sounds like he committed suicide to me
Goalie_deacon t1_j1ek5xc wrote
Wasn’t just him though. American officers were still ordering men to fight, even though the last battles that day changed nothing. The treaty was already signed, and the Germans weren’t charging. Germans only fought back in self defense.
Really a waste of life, as terms of surrender were already decided. The final score didn’t matter, Germany lost before hand. They were just running the clock.
smooth-brain_Sunday t1_j1g9rtt wrote
Interesting in that I just watched All Quiet On The Western Front, a German movie, and it depicted the Germans charging back to fight the French at 10:45 that morning.
TortueTeur t1_j1nsoq0 wrote
I recommend the book, I enjoyed it substantially more than the movie
ZXE102Rv2 t1_j1ca6zg wrote
Makes you think. Imagine the war ended already and you're still fighting half a day later cuz you haven't gotten the news yet and a bunch of comrades die.
AtomicBombSquad t1_j1cgp4p wrote
This scenario is more or less what happened with the Battle of New Orleans in the War of 1812. The treaty to end the war was signed two weeks earlier on Christmas Eve, 1814; but, because it was signed in Europe nobody on this side of the Atlantic knew the war was over until sometime in February, 1815.
Cohibaluxe t1_j1ct468 wrote
There were Japanese soldiers still ‘fighting’ into the 1970s as they were unaware Japan had surrendered 30 years prior. Luckily none of these soldiers died or were wounded (most hid out and raided supplies to stay alive) but still, they essentially threw away their best years hiding from an enemy in a war that’s been over for decades.
THANOSUSERTHANOSUSER t1_j1ee9n2 wrote
Several did though, hiroo onoda was holding out with 5 or so guys and 4 of them died at various times in the 2 decades following the end of the war through starvation/exposure or shootouts with local police (generally because they were robbing/looting for food or stealing cows). Onoda wrote a book on his experiences (no surrender) and the dude was so wary of everything around him he refused to believe it when his brother came to try to get him out of the forest, he insisted it was some kind of impersonation or Americans were forcing him.
Goalie_deacon t1_j1ekq0n wrote
Also left off that Onoda and his guys killed civilians during that time. Philippines wanted him tried for a few murders.
THANOSUSERTHANOSUSER t1_j1el0gy wrote
Yea. That’ll also get you killed
Van_GOOOOOUGH t1_j1db0qy wrote
I heard it was just one guy. When people found him & tried to explain that the war had ended, he was a bit stubborn & suspicious & senile about standing his ground.
Cohibaluxe t1_j1dchvt wrote
There was one in Guam in 72, one in the Philipines in 74 and reportedly two in the jungles of the Philipines in the 90s.
ProBonoChef t1_j1d92c9 wrote
If only they were all found and died
ProBonoChef t1_j1icsw8 wrote
Genuinely hilarious and surprised people downvoted this.
Look at how many innocent men, women and children these guys killed, not to mention the causes of Imperial Japan in WW2 they were fighting for. Dead Japanese WW2 soldiers means fewer raped and murdered civillians
Goalie_deacon t1_j1ekfng wrote
It already did, and they knew it. Orders had already came down that Germany accepted terms of surrender, and they agreed to end the war at that specific time. War basically ended the day before. Only psychopaths were still wanting to fight longer.
[deleted] t1_j1eqibm wrote
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hemuni t1_j1ce6lp wrote
Lots of people got killed in the days after. Just cause a war is declared as “over” doesn’t mean people immediately stop killing each other. And FYI clocks and watches were not that exact back then. This is an interesting story, but likely he was just one of the very last to get killed, just before the war was declared over.
Martel67 t1_j1crs2s wrote
…one of the very last of many thousands. There were fightings still going on for a few days.
Skippymabob t1_j1dsvdv wrote
Literally the first sentence of the guy your replying too
Liktwo t1_j1cvqwn wrote
Not to mention the soldiers and civilians who died after the war officially ended, due to wounds, diseases and so on.
ChanceStad t1_j1e04b2 wrote
Ya, my Grandma was told her first husband was the "last" soldier killed in the war - 3 days after it ended.
Goalie_deacon t1_j1el7az wrote
War was declared over before hand, and orders were sent out telling all commanders on both sides about when the war would officially end. Literally every soldier could’ve just slept in, and be eating a nice breakfast in the open as the war ended. Sadly, psychopaths were in command.
Y34rZer0 t1_j1crtjf wrote
On the final day everybody knew that the war was going to end at 11 am, but some commanders (mostly US) wanted to be the person who won the last victory of the war, and also to have good strategic positions if the armistice collapsed. So they attacked German positions even though they knew the war was ending in a couple of hours.
more soldiers were killed that day then on the D-day landings
paulc899 t1_j1e6lx4 wrote
That’s not true. A quick google search will tell you that ~2700 people died on Nov 11 1918 while the allies alone on DDay had over 4400 confirmed dead
Y34rZer0 t1_j1e84f5 wrote
A quick google search gives misleading numbers on this topic
This is from the official US Army Times site link which covers it fully
American forces weren’t alone in launching assaults on the last day. The British high command, still stinging from its retreat at Mons during the first days of the war in August 1914, judged that nothing could be more appropriate than to retake the city on the war’s final day. British Empire losses on November 11 totaled some twenty-four hundred. The French commander of the 80th Régiment d’Infanterie received two simultaneous orders that morning: one to launch an attack at 9 a.m., the other to cease fire at 11. Total French losses on the final day amounted to an estimated 1,170.
The Germans, in the always-perilous posture of retreat, suffered some 4,120 casualties. Losses on all sides that day approached eleven thousand dead, wounded, and missing.
Indeed, Armistice Day exceeded the ten thousand casualties suffered by all sides on D-Day
note: this doesn’t cover American deaths of about 300
Scoobydoomed t1_j1ccrck wrote
Did he have FOMO?
sooprvylyn t1_j1cdcf6 wrote
Well, someone needed to be last, i suppose.
The_Only_AL t1_j1co6ch wrote
You should watch The Big Red One starring Lee Marvin with Mark Hamill in a small role.
ViciousKnids t1_j1dmqua wrote
Retreat? Hell, we only just got here!
Thoughtcriminal91 t1_j1ecpnb wrote
Reminds of that scene from "All's quiet on the western front" where that German general orders one final attack cause.... ego. What a massive waste of life that whole war was.
IamREBELoe t1_j1c9xsr wrote
🎵 isn't it ironic..dontcha think...
RosebudWhip t1_j1cffwj wrote
If he'd only waited...
Wineman75 t1_j1dczsp wrote
Like the purge movies
theghost201 t1_j1doqjn wrote
Someone had to be last might as well die a badass death
emceemcee t1_j1cvus8 wrote
Good, take that dumb fuck out of the gene pool.
yellowsubmarinr t1_j1cda34 wrote
This is all from memory from high school but the powers that be at the time wanted to end the war at 11/11 11:11am for shits and giggles, the shitty thing was they had decided to end the war the night before but waiter, and people died, so they could get their nifty 11/11 11:11am nonsense. What a fucking joke.
Edit: the comments below go to show how the same thing would probably happen today and people would die because 11:11 looks cool. Sad
Sly1969 t1_j1cg1jn wrote
The armistice was signed around 5 am and due to come into effect at 11 am, partly because of the symbolism but also to make sure that all parts of the front had time to receive the message. Gunther died not because his commanders didn't get the message but because they decided to attack anyway. The Germans were shouting and waving at the Americans to go back as the war was over but they keep charging and were cut down in their hundreds. Utterly fucking pointless deaths.
4thofeleven t1_j1co1ct wrote
You generally don't want to declare a cease-fire immediately - you need to allow time for everyone to get the message, otherwise you get situations where one unit doesn't receive the new orders in time, continues attacking, the other side thinks you're intentionally violating the cease-fire, and the whole thing collapses.
yellowsubmarinr t1_j1dvazm wrote
And it just happened to be at 11:11 on 11/11? Not buying it
The armistice should have happened earlier but didn’t and people died for it. Yet I’m being downvoted for advocating for these people who needlessly died. To people who are defending this, maybe reconsider you stance because people died who didn’t need to due to leaders’ incompetence and wanting the 11/11 thing to look cool.
[deleted] t1_j1dlguv wrote
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The_Thunder_Child t1_j1esvge wrote
The agreement to end the fighting was signed many hours earlier. This was to give time for the commanders at the front to be notified.
IAmDavidGurney OP t1_j1c9bxb wrote
He performed this brave/suicidal action because he had recently been demoted from sergeant to private. After his death, he was posthumously restored to sergeant.
> Being of recent German-American heritage, Gunther did not automatically enlist in the armed forces as many others did soon after the United States declared war on Germany in April 1917. In September 1917, he was drafted and quickly assigned to the 313th Infantry Regiment, nicknamed "Baltimore's Own"; it was part of the larger 157th Brigade of the 79th Infantry Division. Promoted as a supply sergeant, he was responsible for clothing in his military unit, and arrived in France in July 1918 as part of the incoming American Expeditionary Forces. A critical letter home, in which he reported on the "miserable conditions" at the front and advised a friend to try anything to avoid being drafted, was intercepted by the Army postal censor. As a result, he was demoted from sergeant to private.[3][6]
> Gunther's unit, Company 'A', arrived at the Western Front on September 12, 1918. Like all Allied units on the front of the Meuse-Argonne Offensive, it was still embroiled in fighting on the morning of November 11.[8] The Armistice with Germany was signed by 5:00 a.m., local time, but it would not come into force until 11:00 a.m. Gunther's squad approached a roadblock of two German machine guns in the village of Chaumont-devant-Damvillers near Meuse, in Lorraine. Gunther got up, against the orders of his close friend and now sergeant, Ernest Powell, and charged with his bayonet. The German soldiers, already aware of the Armistice that would take effect in one minute, tried to wave Gunther away. He kept going and fired "a shot or two".[3] When he got too close to the machine guns, he was shot in a short burst of automatic fire and killed instantly.[9] The writer James M. Cain, then a reporter for the local daily newspaper, The Sun, interviewed Gunther's comrades afterward and wrote that "Gunther brooded a great deal over his recent reduction in rank, and became obsessed with a determination to make good before his officers and fellow soldiers".[3] > > American Expeditionary Forces commanding General John J. Pershing's "Order of The Day" on the following day specifically mentioned Gunther as the last American killed in the war.[9] The Army posthumously restored his rank of sergeant and awarded him a Divisional Citation for Gallantry in Action and the Distinguished Service Cross. Several years later, a post, number 1858 of the Veterans of Foreign Wars in east Baltimore, was named after him.[2][3][10] The VFW Post honoring the name of Sergeant Gunther has since ceased to exist. > > Gunther's remains were returned to the United States in 1923 after being exhumed from a military cemetery in France, and buried at the Most Holy Redeemer Cemetery in Baltimore.[2] Subsequent investigations revealed that on the last day of World War I, during the armistice negotiations in the railroad cars encampment at the Compiegne Forest, French commander-in-chief Marshal Foch refused to accede to the German negotiators' request to declare an immediate ceasefire or truce so that there would be no more useless waste of lives among the common soldiers. The failure to declare a truce, even between the signing of the documents for the Armistice and its entry into force "at the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month", caused about 11,000 additional men to be wounded or killed – far more than usual, according to the military statistics.[11] > >