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GetsGold t1_j1yc4cc wrote

Bees could be trained to pick which of two cards had the fewer number of symbols.

Then when shown a card with no symbols, the bees would pick this one more often than should happen randomly, implying that they could figure out "zero" was a number on the number line smaller than any positive number.

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Implausibilibuddy t1_j20l7ya wrote

What controls for the possibility that they associate the symbols as being "dangerous" to their chance of getting a reward and therefore avoid the card with the most symbols, rather than choose the card with zero symbols?

I know it sounds like the same thing but there's a subtle yet important difference.

Plus even if they were picking the card with no symbols, that doesn't mean they understand the mathematical concept of zero, just that they understand the concept of something being absent. Practically all animals get this. They'll pick a path where there are no predators, they'll go foraging/hunting when there is no food, etc..

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I_see_dumb_poeple t1_j21ahc4 wrote

My dog will carefully pick a place to shit with 0 shits as not to stand in shit while shitting because that would be shitty. Dogs know about 0 for sure.

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GetsGold t1_j21o3oa wrote

This isn't just knowing something vs. nothing, this is about understanding the order property of numbers and of zero being one of those numbers.

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GetsGold t1_j21oge4 wrote

They were taught that fewer symbols is better, and then applied that logic when no symbols became a possibility. Regardless of what they based this association on, they appeared to learn less vs. more and apply that concept to 0, not just learn none vs. some.

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ReviewNecessary6521 t1_j1yojrh wrote

My dog understand the concept of zero.
If I'm eating a banana and I don't give him some. He has zero bananas. He wildly prefers 1 banana to zero banana-

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Billypisschips t1_j1ysnjq wrote

And they can count. Try taking him out with 3 biscuits and only giving him 2.

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TronOld_Dumps t1_j1yfot5 wrote

But can they divide by zero.

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Itirpon t1_j1z1lqf wrote

Yes. That's the technique that makes them able to fly.

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Sunion t1_j20c9a4 wrote

Red Bull has been hiding this information carefully. They really don't want it getting out. If people knew dividing by 0 gave you wings, they'd never sell a beverage again.

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White_Lord t1_j1ygvvc wrote

Original study is under paywall as usual, but how can we know they didn't guess the sugar water through other ways, like smell for example?

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Sparkybear t1_j20bpxt wrote

You remove the sugar water entirely and test which cards they go to when foraging. Similar to how you train any animal. You start with food rewards and praise, eventually they'll do it just for praise.

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Kittenfabstodes t1_j1ycwq5 wrote

Pretty sure everything that eats, understands the concept of zero. I have food or I don't have food.

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Ok_Copy5217 t1_j1yi6a6 wrote

is that right? so it is either yes food or no food.

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D3monVolt t1_j1yh3sl wrote

No, no.

I have food and someone else has the food that I'm about to take for me

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Javerage t1_j1zhuqg wrote

According to all known laws of math, there is no way that a bee should be able to do algebra. Its arms are too small to get a fat 2B pencil off the ground. The bee, of course, does math anyways. Because bees don't care what humans think is impossible.

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Rethious t1_j1yh3ew wrote

I’m going to go out on a limb and say that this is junk science without investigating.

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prof_devilsadvocate t1_j1yew2o wrote

they also undeestand "travelling salesman optimisation"..as per my data analytics book

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sakamake t1_j1yave9 wrote

Yeah nice, underrated candy bar

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N3r0m3 t1_j1z6xha wrote

They also can be taught the concept of symmetric and asymmetric symbols

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thasnazgul t1_j1zj509 wrote

Scientists hold up a card with the number zero and honeybee buzzes in understanding.

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i81u812 t1_j1zqhr3 wrote

Animals understand the concept of 'Nothing'. This does not equate to undermotherfuckingstanding the actual number, 0.

Ugh.

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aptninja t1_j21kfpc wrote

“Coming up next, can bees think? A new study confirms that no, they cannot”

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Ok_Copy5217 t1_j1yi4hj wrote

do they know that something divided by zero is infinity?

that aside, it would come in handy to be aware that there is zero other bees or honey. What other insects understand zero?

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_Ilya-_- t1_j1z20xb wrote

> do they know that something divided by zero is infinity?

Something divided by zero in all mathematical spaces you encounter commonly will be undefined, not infinity.

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Ok_Copy5217 t1_j21w1jv wrote

did it used to be infinity at some point or a middle school watered down version? because in school, a boy once asked me "Do you know what something divided by zero is?" I asked what? and he dramatically announced "The answer is infinity!"

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SolarisBravo t1_j20937n wrote

Something divided by zero is not infinity - this is easy to check, because you can add as many 0s as you want and you will never get any closer to the original number.

What you get when you divide anything by 0 is not (un) defined.

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