unusedusername3 t1_iz4yjzx wrote
Reply to comment by Override9636 in TIL "The Twelve Days of Christmas" STARTS on Christmas Day, and ends of January 5th (Three Kings Day). by HauntedHippie
The ones from the Christian bible that bring Jesus gifts.
PuckSR t1_iz5cbud wrote
Which, fun fact, there is some questionable evidence that we have classically misunderstood the story that they "followed a star". Rather, it seems to be a reference to astrology. There has been an argument that roughly around the time of Jesus, there were some astrological alignments that could have been interpreted as "a new Judean King has come", which would seem to justify this idea. Also, it never says "3 wise men", the number just got added at some point.
Finally, the entire story of Jesus' birth is a bit convoluted in the bible. The story says that they were attending the census of Quirinus(a Roman ruler of Judea), but then says that they had to flee the murderous zeal of King Herod. Unfortunately, King Herod was long gone when Quirinus was put in charge of the area. The Quirinus census was a real event known from other historical documents, but it occurred specifically because the area had transitioned from a vassal state(where Herod was allowed to be king) to a Roman governorship. The Romans would allow vassal states to simply pay them, but if the Romans were running the area they wanted good records and therefore required a census.
tl;dr: The authors of the biblical narrative of Jesus' birth seemed to have thrown in a lot of popular events in a haphazard order.
herbw t1_iz6t8ez wrote
Nothing ever fits very well at all. Nope censuses were not recorded in historical Roman records, or are not now existing records.
Herodian myth was yet another bit of "improving the tale" to make ti conform to a peculiar, not well accepted bit of OT mythologies.
However, Pontius Pilatus condemned Jeshua. And there is NO source at all, including for the above "census" which is likely a bad translation, too.
However in the last 20 yrs .an engraved in marble stone was round No. of Israel. Pontius Pilatus on it. Provenance and time good. So He did exist. perhaps a gov of something. Bit proof that some of the tale was true, however.
Many try to interpret myths in terms of other myths, and that's just Double Trouble, in critical thinking.
Jeshua was 2 when they fled. That had to be a warm time, too. Thus gutting the shepherd tale, again. doesn't sayu when he came back, but as he studied in Yeshive to be a rabbi, had to before age 12. yet again, HUGE miss.
PuckSR t1_iz6u3m7 wrote
We literally have his tombstone which records the census chief
herbw t1_iz7l66j wrote
sorry for the times of ca. bc 10 to bout AD 10 there is NO list of
quirinius, nor Pontius pilate, that I can see.
herbw t1_iz7m1f6 wrote
Those, sadly are all estimates but not dates known.
Quirinius I see no dates for him either. Pontius pilatus nothing. do you have somethin less than an encyclopedic text which do NOT have the time for to go thru.
We do NOT have any dates from birth of Jeshua at all .Nor do we know Quirinius' because i refuse to go thru centuries of listings.
what is date of Quirinius, please? but far as I could tell, we have NO dates of the censuses, either, because we do NOT have maps for which places in Romans times those would be listed in. was it nazareth, or bethlehem? Those are not shown.
If you can cite specifics instead of encyclopediasl,then we can discuss it.
PuckSR t1_iz7n3mx wrote
I didn't cite an encyclopedia chief. I linked to the encyclopedia because it literally has the tombstone of a soldier who served under Quirinius during the census
PuckSR t1_iz6uha3 wrote
And we know of Pilate through numerous Jewish historians. They hated him. Apparently he was a real tool
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