Comments
BobbyP27 t1_jdbzv2q wrote
The date was chosen to prevent precisely this situation. Prior to 1276, the law was whatever the king said it was at any moment. The idea of the introduction of the "common law" was to provide a proper legal system with courts and the like. They wanted people to be able to use the new courts to deal with relatively recent disputes, but not ancient ones. They therefore chose the date, the beginning of the reign of Richard I, as the cutoff date (which was 87 years prior). Anything that happened in that time period could be brought before the courts, including "yesterday", but anything older was in "time immemorial", so could not.
static_void_function t1_jdb359q wrote
The date is King Henry II death and marks Richard I's accession to the English throne. Richard I also known as Lionheart and led the Third Crusade.
UnderlordZ t1_jdc7utj wrote
And was portrayed at the end of Robin Hood: Men In Tights by Sir Patrick Stewart!
Sunsparc t1_jdcp3h9 wrote
"From this day forth, all the toilets in this kingdom shall be known as.... Johns!"
snow_michael t1_jddx386 wrote
That's a c16th migration of the c16th word jakes, meaning piss-place ... and no one knows why
jonsticles t1_jdd3lkg wrote
I need a bot that responds with Sir Patrick Stewart facts.
static_void_function t1_jdd12xg wrote
Richard I’s brother John was the evil ruler in the story.
TroikKhad t1_jdb19w5 wrote
Are there examples of when this is used? Like any modern laws?
PublicSeverance t1_jdbd797 wrote
Land rights and possession mostly.
Natives Tribes laws in USA. Tribal law existed before time immemorial (USA).
snow_michael t1_jddwqs8 wrote
Rights of way
Land ownership and usage
Grazing rights
Riparan (river) rights including some mooring rights
Coastal and esturial fishing rights
Salvage rights
Firewood collection, shellfish harvesting, seaweed collection
Some performance rights
Initial-Apartment-92 t1_jdexf5i wrote
Is it still 1189 in the US then? Wouldn’t that mean it wouldn’t apply to anything other than Native American issues?
snow_michael t1_jdfj7gj wrote
I have no idea about US laws
RamboDanza t1_jdauuje wrote
Then that's memorial.
Obtusus t1_jdawt9g wrote
I don't think you understand what immemorial means.
JGSolorzano t1_jdbtx6h wrote
Wait it doesn't mean not-memorial? My life is a lie
Initial-Apartment-92 t1_jdey5u2 wrote
Yes, it does mean that. We just don’t use memorial commonly to mean within memory.
jay-hoepezg t1_jdb2wu7 wrote
Time may be immemorial, but at least we have a specific date to mark the beginning of modern legal jargon.
RamboDanza t1_jdb39h5 wrote
It's something I suppose.
BobbyP27 t1_jdbzfwq wrote
It's effectively a form of what we might now regard as a statute of limitations. With the Norman Conquest in 1066, there was a huge upheaval, and obviously lots of formerly important people lost land, rights and property. During the initial period after the conquest, the law was basically a combination of the King's word and what you could get away with. Later, when concepts like property law and courts independent of the King's whim at the time became a thing, they didn't want to have to deal with all these ancient grievances, so set a date, the start of the reign of Richard I, and deemed anything that happened before that to be "time immemorial" and therefore not subject to the legal system. If you can prove you owned something or had a legal right on that date, anything that happened before would not count. The date was set something like 80 years prior, so things in the relatively recent past would still be included, but things like "your great grandfather stole this field from my great grandfather" would not.
Psychological-Rub-72 t1_jdb3h61 wrote
On July 5th 1189 Richard became king of England. So essentially before Richards reign.
[deleted] t1_jdb04eh wrote
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bwwilkerson t1_jdb0xr5 wrote
I'd watch the hell out of that.
CornWallacedaGeneral t1_jdb3vyz wrote
I wanna see that man getting into many fist fights with guys one third of his age some more....😂😂😂
Hattix t1_jdbwz3m wrote
There are others, and we have modern laws which use them.
For example, an "ancient forest" has existed such that nobody in the year 1600 (1750 in Scotland) could remember it not being a forest, or it was present as a forest in a map or written record dating at least to 1600.
Count_Dongula t1_jdbfgsg wrote
Aethelred the Unready: Am I joke to you?
confidence_basket t1_jdc6rob wrote
This was the date of Richard I’s ascension to the throne. I don’t know why Richard I specifically was so important…
LordUpton t1_jdcdavb wrote
I think it's less the importance of Richard accession and more that Henry II reforms were the basis of English common law. I think it was just easier to point at his death as the beginning point rather than trying to work out specifically which reform began the English legal system.
confidence_basket t1_jdcdf8o wrote
Ohh this does make thinks clearer. Thank you for your invite!
Five-and-Dimer t1_jddf3i5 wrote
So, this thing of ours, follows that?
bigbangbilly t1_jdb9wc6 wrote
Wasn't there this date where it's year 0 for database professionals?
kanzenryu t1_jdbfhb5 wrote
Jan 1st 1970 for Unix epoch time. Jan 1st 1950 for "before present" for science. 1900 or 1904 for some Windows/Excel zero dates.
GrandmaPoses t1_jdbck6u wrote
Must have been awkward there at the start.
“We’ve been doing it this way since time immemorial.”
“It’s the seventh, Dave, you mean yesterday?”