theoneandonly6558 t1_ja17zlt wrote
Reply to comment by Djidji5739291 in TIL that from 1991 to 2007, tobacco conglomerate Philip Morris Cos. successfully marketed Capri Sun to children, based on their executives' experience selling tobacco to young people. by 99-bottlesofbeer
Are you thinking of the anti-meth commercials they quit playing because the song was too catchy?
Djidji5739291 t1_ja18mso wrote
No I mean literal advertisements for amphetamines going:
„Stay fit and slim by using Amphetamine“
A lot of hard drugs were legal during prohibition, you could take hard drugs but alcohol was banned.
[deleted] t1_ja2xork wrote
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Djidji5739291 t1_ja3h7cm wrote
Yeah thanks for pointing that out. I can‘t imagine someone on cocaine, meth or anything else driving better than a drunk person and I‘ve literally seen people test and confirm your statement. Goes to show how much we underestimate alcohol and think of illegal drugs as the devil.
Mediocre_Truth_6115 t1_ja37my4 wrote
You're right.
There's probably some other GABAergic drugs that could have that same effect that aren't as common though.
[deleted] t1_ja52tap wrote
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[deleted] t1_ja4rxhk wrote
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gc3 t1_ja27yoy wrote
Amphetamines were given to German soldiers during WW2 by the bucketful
pseudocultist t1_ja2thc0 wrote
Methamphetamine. We were using amphetamines but "supposedly" not meth. But the Air Force was probably adding meth to the pilots injections. It's mildly contentious.
myusernamehere1 t1_ja1gm8d wrote
Alcohol is a hard drug and daily use of alcohol is probable worse for your health than daily use of amphetamine.
Stunning_Carpenter68 t1_ja1q6br wrote
I think that really depends. Daily street meth though? Definitely not lol
myusernamehere1 t1_ja1v1g3 wrote
Really depends on the dosage and purity. If meth/amphetamine were legal, well regulated, with informed users, it would likely be less damaging than alcohol. Obviously people who regularly take very high doses will have health issues, but this can be compared to binge drinking which is also horrible for your health.
Analysis-Klutzy t1_ja1vgu8 wrote
Yes we get alcohol is objectively less toxic. Isn't going to make my ice head neighbour any where near as peaceful as even a drunk lol
myusernamehere1 t1_ja1x58b wrote
Because alcohol is legal meaning that regular law abiding citizens can easily access it. Amphetamine/meth being illegal skews the statistics such that only people willing to break the law can access it, and mentally unhealthy/ill people are more likely to be willing to break the law.
sharaq t1_ja4jp0u wrote
Stimulants are much more likely to cause psychosis than alcohol is in a much shorter period of time. Within a few weeks of stimulant use, one in a thousand users experience full blown schizophrenia like symptoms. The rate of alcoholic hallucinosis is one in four thousand and only occurs amongst individuals using it for many years; and typically has much milder symptoms typically isolated to visual and tactile stimuli.
The rate of addiction is much lower in alcohol users, at around one in twenty adults. I don't know how many adults try methamphetamine and develop addiction, but colloquially and from my experience with substance abuse programs, the ratio of first use to addiction is much higher by an order of magnitude.
Alcohol is a toxin, yes, but every mammal has evolved to seek out and (within limits) safely metabolize alcohol. Strong stimulants are not something we have evolved alongside. I think there's many safer substances that are unfairly regulated when alcohol gets a pass but methamphetamine simply isn't one.
myusernamehere1 t1_ja5kqnl wrote
This is all due to prohibition of their use, lack of access to information on how to safely use them, and them being illegal skews user statistics towards people who already have mental health issues. In order for stimulants to cause psychosis, someone would have to take very large doses. I am not saying there are no side effects.
Tomcatjones t1_ja3yk9d wrote
The problem with the argument is that meth/amphetamines ARE legal and regulated as prescribed. And can be abused of course
Alcohol is just regularly abused.
Both can be very safe in time, setting, and dose
myusernamehere1 t1_ja5jsed wrote
During prohibition, alcohol could be prescribed. This did not stop illegal distilleries from producing alcohol that had unsafe levels of byproducts which caused even worse health effects than alcohol would alone.
I do not see amphetamine/meth being legal to prescribe as an issue with my argument, as we are not talking about medicinal use. They are illegal to use recreationally, unlike alcohol, leading to all sorts of issues.
Tomcatjones t1_ja5k43h wrote
That was my point. You can abuse anything legal or not..
myusernamehere1 t1_ja5l1ll wrote
I mean obviously. My point is that legality of recreational use has a lot to due with how something is perceived, the amount of available information for harm reduction, and skews the statistics such that only people willing to break the law will do so.
Mediocre_Truth_6115 t1_ja37xft wrote
I don't know why people are downvoting you.
What you're saying isn't objectively untrue.
Alcohol is horrible for you, and so are most other drugs, but alcohol is horrible for you no doubt.
SagaciousTien t1_ja5clhz wrote
Meth and amphetamines are legal and regulated. They're just controlled substances. You can possess either with a prescription. Desoxyn is the market name for Methamphetamine. It was originally prescribed for severe obesity cases before reaching the ADHD market.
myusernamehere1 t1_ja5kt1z wrote
Im talking about recreational use
SagaciousTien t1_ja5lywv wrote
Do enough drugs and you'll realize there's no difference.
myusernamehere1 t1_ja5mepk wrote
I dont see your point. Legality of recreational use has a lot to do with access to knowledge on harm reduction, presence of impurities or adulterants, and skews the statistics of users towards those who are already prone to addiction and/or struggling with mental health issues.
Djidji5739291 t1_ja2byep wrote
Yeah tobacco and alcohol rank high for the most dangerous drugs just because of how addictive they are and how many people they kill. A lot of people would rank alcohol and tobacco #1 and #2. Alcohol being banned while meth was legal, and alcohol now being advertised to kids while meth is banned but seriously easy to get, it shows that you need to go far beyond prohibiting substances if you actually want to do something about addictions.
Not sure why you‘re being downvoted, I welcome you pointing out that substances killing countless people are still being advertised as harmless and great and I‘m not sure if people are aware that alcohol is killing as many people as it is.
jervoise t1_ja2mrmo wrote
They rank so highly, because they are legal as well. How much something kills is massively warped by how many people take it.
Djidji5739291 t1_ja3gq30 wrote
I think that was his point, we gotta stop demonizing drugs and understand what they are and how to stop people from taking them or getting addicted.
There‘s a quote about a government needing to legalize drugs once the effects of banning them become worse than the actual drug. For example punched drugs that will kill people. For example drugs that are mixed so much, they are multiple times more harmful than the drug the consumer was trying to consume. Also criminality around the drug use and possession.
In my city you can legally take heroin and it‘s the most sane thing in the world. You see when your city develops a huge drug problem you either start helping the victims, or you start using force against people that are CLEARLY in need of help and pose no real threat…
FriendlyAndHelpfulP t1_ja4theg wrote
>Clearly in need of help and pose no real threat…
…Right until they run out of money. Opiates in particular rise in cost at an exponential rate.
When you’re starting out, a $10 Vicodin pill can be broken up into a week of getting high.
Then you very quickly find yourself needing to rail a $60 Roxy 30 to feel a buzz.
Then you switch to H to save money, and get back down to 2-3 $10 bags a day to stay stable.
Until it doesn’t work anymore, and you start knowingly avoiding H in favor of that fetty, at which point your tolerance goes so fucking high you literally can’t get high on any amount of heroin anymore, and you’re banging $100 worth of fent a day just to stave off the withdrawals that make heroin withdrawal look like a cakewalk.
At which point your only two choices are “get into a detox program that will accept you and go through a literal month+ of hell,” or “start robbing.”
Guess what people tend to choose.
myusernamehere1 t1_ja2dtps wrote
I am being downvoted because the "war on drugs" has been largely successful in the demonization and propaganda surrounding illicit drugs
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