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Outside_Cod667 t1_ixzbqtw wrote

I get that you didn't intend to be offensive. You basically said, "All men know how to drive, and you were suggesting that women do not know how to drive and that men are naturally better at it.

It's also not true. Statistically, men get in more accidents. They tend to be more confident drivers, and engage in riskier behavior while driving. Confidence doesn't mean you're a better driver.

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[deleted] t1_ixzc5ki wrote

[deleted]

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SSNs4evr t1_ixzij9k wrote

I don't know one way or the other, but I'm a man, and my wife always makes me drive. I'm competent, confident, and all that other crap men are supposed to be, and at 51, I'm mellow and mature enough to not get sucked up into the "who's got the bigger cock" stuff. From my perspective anyway, if I have to drive all the time, statistically I'm destined to be involved in more of the good and bad that comes with driving.

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Outside_Cod667 t1_ixzs6nt wrote

There are always going to be a lot of variables and it isn't black and white. Typically researchers will factor in thar men drive more (accidents per mile for example). The sexist part of this post is that OP stated very black and white, "Men are automatically good drivers simply because they are a man." The definition of safety is obviously debatable as well and I'm finding studies that go both ways. Both genders have traits that can lead them to being either good or bad drivers.

As a women, it's frustrating that men will just say, "Men are just better at x, y, z," as a blanket statement, based on anecdotal evidence, for things that simply aren't true. "Oh, I didn't mean to be offensive, it's just a fact." Or "in my experience it's true.. I don't mean allll women." It's frustrating because this type of thinking leads to other unconscious sexist thoughts.

I'll do my best to explain what it feels like as a woman to hear these types of statements. I'm certainly not speaking for all women here. When men make these types of blanket statements at work, it tends to be the type of men that will talk over women during a meeting. It's the the that call me aggressive during a meeting because I stand my ground, or say, "Hey Drew, Amy wasn't done speaking yet and I'd like to hear what she has to say." Or, my favorite, would rather ask a man that is new to the team, rather than me (the subject matter expert), because I'm a woman in a male dominated field. Is that always the case? No. But women experience this type of thing frequently, and if a man consistently makes statements like this, I'm going to be on edge around them.

I'm someone that will call a man out, in a lighthearted way. The majority of the time a guy will realize it and apologize, because it really wasn't intentional. It's hard to see sexism if you dont experience (similar to racism). I'm not bothered by these statements unless 1) it's consistent or 2) the guy doubles down / defends the sexist comment.

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get_off_my_lawn_n0w t1_iy0fs4i wrote

This exactly. I can't say I'm immune to it either. It's so pervasive, us guys, don't even realize it. This AM I found myself apologizing and explaining to my kid for a similar statement.

I said "I'm helping momma clean the house". Unwittingly implying that house cleaning was mom's responsibility and I'm merely helping. Even with the best of intentions, that shit is hard to combat.

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Outside_Cod667 t1_iy0z1ae wrote

It's great that you can think about it, recognize it, and apologize for it. Everyone does it to an extent, whether it's sexism, racism, or something else. Acknowledging it and/or genuinely trying to understand is what makes a difference, so thank you!

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get_off_my_lawn_n0w t1_iy0ehw1 wrote

There was a guy who did a paper on this and had a better explanation.

So TLDR men are higher risk takers and get into larger, deadlier accidents. Women are more cautious drivers but seem to get into numerically more smaller less expensive non deadly accidents.

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ben_db t1_ixzks7f wrote

It really depends what you mean by "better".

Safer? hell no, men tend to be way more dangerous.

Getting out of potentially dangerous situations? Possible.

Driving competitively at a very high level? Yes, men are more prevalent in this, but that doesn't mean that a man will be better than a woman, only that characteristics that lead someone to excel are more likely to be there in men.

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Novel-One-9447 t1_ixzjuk1 wrote

men get into more accidents simply cuz more of men drive than woman… lol

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incognitolandshark t1_ixzbpar wrote

You’re offensive. Apologize, and don’t sling the “if you were offended I’m sorry shit at them either, apologize for what you said and acknowledge you were wrong. Then do better or you’ll find yourself out of a job.

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[deleted] t1_ixzbc7q wrote

Men are born drivers? Tell that to the man who ran me off the road during a snowy drive, and ruined my life

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Surv0 t1_ixzc47q wrote

Don't take it literally here.. he obviously made a highly inaccurate, ignorant comment, due to his youth...

Men are not born drivers.. let's move on.

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ioncarelol OP t1_ixzbub2 wrote

I'm sorry for what you have to go through, I really think it was taken in wrong content and I don't meant it in an arrogant way, I want to take that back but idk how as I don't want to bring that up.

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Plenty_Intention1991 t1_ixzed2j wrote

Easy fix dude. Never make gendered statements at work. You just don’t say Men __________ or Women __________. One because it’s stupid but two because every company has an HR department that might want to talk to you.

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readit2U t1_ixzlkph wrote

I understand but I hate it that you can't even say anything that is true. Men and women are not the same. If we were there would be no need for that division in sports.

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Outside_Cod667 t1_ixzvenn wrote

You can say things that are true. The problem is that people will say things like, "Men are just better drivers!" And defend it as if it is true. People often have a strong bias that they genuinely think is just true, when it isn't, and that is sexism (whether intentional or not).

Something like, "Men tend to have more muscle." That is true, you can say that and I don't think anyone would be upset about it. You can't say, "I am stronger than all woman because men have more muscle. Therefore I am always stronger than women. That's just how it is!"

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readit2U t1_iy04rp4 wrote

I agree with you but I have been called sexist for stating that there are biological and anatomic differences that give benefit to the other gender. When I have used an example like playing the top NBA team against the top WNBA team I have been rebuted with "the WMBA has not been around for as long. Really! The person could not SEE the difference? But in any case, stating that one gender is superior even for a specific task is offensive to some regardless of how true it is, and many will take a position against it just because of the subject. I have adopted a policy of just not addressing it (I know this post is in contrast) because it really doesn't make any difference to me and if the boxing match between the 2 top ranked heavy weight boxers (male & female) is not just obvious to someone I am not going to be able to explain it, nor do I wish to.

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king_side_castle t1_ixzmgni wrote

The stereotype that women are worse drivers feeds in to unfair bias against and discrimination of women. Any “pro-man” statement also implies “anti-woman” unfortunately, due to the historical mistreatment of women.

Honestly, if you had said “Leos (or whatever) are born drivers” or “Great drivers run in my family” I doubt anyone would have taken offense. Both of those statement are also exclusionary of others, but not specifically women, so they’re less offensive to people.

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777777777777777p t1_ixzkfoe wrote

Tbh if i was her i wouldn't say that i was offended. I'd just ignore you forever lmao

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ioncarelol OP t1_iy2oj04 wrote

That would hurt more ig but Ik my way to get them

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serf_mobile t1_ixzfzzv wrote

In my 20ish years of driving I have personally witnessed AT LEAST as many men doing the absolute dumbest shit behind the wheel as women, if not more. Anecdotal opinion - each does different dumb things more frequently than the other.

Just apologize, admit fault for saying something dumb, and they'll probably be fine so everyone moves on.

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ioncarelol OP t1_iy2onsm wrote

I fucked up I totally agree and my intention was nowhere near to offend them, I just told that as I've heard it before and to validate my point I've never seen a women driver in a formula one(F1) car race nor in moto GP.

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slimzimm t1_ixzcfj9 wrote

Maybe a little sexist and something you should try to tamper down at work. When you exclude any group of people from a more “elite” group of people, you’re qualifying them as “less than” and that’s not good to put into your superiors mind. Closed door, you and I just talking, yeah maybe men are better at driving because on average we are pushed to be physical and care about cars, and men are better at spacial reasoning than women on psychological tests, but it’s also true that some women are better than some men at driving. Therefore to say that men are born drivers comes off as exclusionary. Women can be excellent drivers too. You live and learn, it’ll probably be forgotten soon but just try to keep in mind that at work the best policy is to think about how others will perceive your thoughts and use inclusive language.

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ioncarelol OP t1_ixzcubd wrote

Thank you so much for the response, it is something that I really needed to hear I think, going forth I'll keep this in mind and definitely stick to it. I currently don't have an award or i would've given it to you.

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Harry_Gorilla t1_ixzdzx7 wrote

People shouldn’t assume that you meant to imply the opposite of what you say. Unless you really emphasized “MEN” and made a knowing look at all the women around you or w/e. It’s like if you said “I like rain in the summer.” That statement doesn’t imply or insinuate that you don’t like rain at other times, or that you do like other weather at other times.

That said… the common bias that women are worse drivers than men is well known, so there is a case that you should have known better. You didn’t say anything offensive, and she’s projecting her own issues into what you said

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Plenty_Intention1991 t1_ixzg8k2 wrote

This is the wrong take and I’m afraid your logic is a bit warped. Talking about rain in the summer isn’t the same thing. It’s fine to say you like something if that’s your preference but Summer isn’t the same qualifier as driver. For example he could have even said “I like males in the Summer” and there would be no issue, but if he says “I like male doctors” the qualifier of a specific job or task is where it becomes a problem.

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Harry_Gorilla t1_iy1klt9 wrote

From a purely logical stand point: no. But we don’t treat gender logically, which was more my point. I wasn’t equating summer to anything, but illustrating that OP’s audience had only heard the opposite of what he said. The important/relevant bit was inferring something about the opposite of what was actually said, as OP’s audience appears to have done.

It’s super weird that it’s fine to jump to this conclusion, that someone intended the contra positive of what they said, if a statement is about or includes a group of people, but not any other time

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Plenty_Intention1991 t1_iy5htsz wrote

But every statement of opinion is inherently two sided don’t you think? By saying that you are in favor of anything you’re also saying that you aren’t necessarily in favor of something else. For example if you loved every flavor of ice cream then you’re unlikely to say unprompted that you like rocky road ice cream. Because there would be no point in singling out that flavor if you thought they were all equal. Just like if you thought all humans were born with an innate ability to drive then you wouldn’t specify men. I understand that in this case he was just using a saying that he’s probably heard somewhere but if someone hasn’t heard that saying before then they might be looking at it from a different perspective and to them it sounds biased or prejudicial.

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ioncarelol OP t1_ixze6sp wrote

The last paragraph is what my current mindset is regarding this whole issue, thankyou.

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