I think you’re conflating “nice guy” with “toxic manipulative douche.”

How do you define nice guy? Because that is the trope to me.

Edit for distracted phone use.

What does musical theatre have to do with it?

Nothing you have done here says “nice guy”.

Respect the boundaries. Be a friend and move on.

If you are lucky and become an actual nice guy you might get a second chance.

My bad I am on a phone and cooking. Trope.

Can you define nice guy, though?

Bro your 20, learn from this mistake and don't be such a "nice guy" in the future.

read the edit

i didnt mean nice guy in a good way.

i hope u understood that i used nice guy in negative conotation.

i used them both as synonymous to each others

Yes, that’s what “conflating” means.

Yeah, that's why I said to not do that anymore, it's unattractive.

here's some dating advice. if someone says they don't want to go out with you, it probably means THEY DON'T WANT TO GO OUT WITH YOU.

You're fine, she just isn't that into you.

A masterclass on how to fit 29 commas into one sentence

Well done for being able to see the error of your ways. Now clean up and move forward in a way you can be proud of

Asking the first time wasn't the fuckup. Trying to wear her down by asking her over and over was.

Ask once for a date, being specific it's a date and not just two friends having dinner or whatever, if she says no move on with your life, don't harass the shit out of her.

I also don't think it's being shitty to spend less time with that person afterwards especially when you find someone who is interested in dating.

Apologize. Accept and learn. Savor the cringe and move on.

Seems like people don’t get your ironic use of nice guy. I got what you meant though.

Your twenties are for making these stupid mistakes and growing from them. Apologise, but don’t go over board with it. Say sorry that you were being dumb and just move on. You’ll either stay friends or go your separate ways. Keep it light and breezy, and hopefully that’ll alleviate some of the tension

I hate that your takeaway is that you ruined your chance to bang her and not that you hurt your friend.

You learnt nothing.

Edit: more importantly, her telling you it is too soon just means she doesn't want to date you and just wanted to be friends. You should not have asked her out again. You should, especially not, ever, list "harsh truths" for why she should date you. That is very concerning language to describe what is most likely delusions you hold to be truths.

You are not even aware of how shit you were to her.

It's not about timing. If she says no, it's never going to be a yes. She's just not into you. You got to learn to take no as the final answer.

Lol, it's funny how many commenters don't seem to know what a nice guy is. Because this story is a perfect example of nice guy behavior.

Nice guys are guys who try to pressure women into dating them, and/or refuse to take no for an answer. They all cannot believe that someone wouldn't be interested in them because they are a nice guy. Eventually they get the hint and go away after you snap at them, but act like you are overreacting and crazy because they are a nice guy. They also are known for fuck-zoning women. Basically befriending them only to get in their pants. "If only she realized how great of a catch I am!"

OP I'm glad you've been able to self reflect and learned from this situation.

What is an anon?

>i said some harsh truth, as why she should consider dating me, and that she should be consider dating me

So this girl didn't want to date you, tried to let you down nicely, and you started insulting her? What exactly were these "harsh truths?" And how on earth do you think you are the person to point them out after knowing her for a few months?

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Being a "Nice Guy" is different from being a nice guy. Nice Guys are toxic and manipulative douches, whereas nice guys are just good people.

Nice Guy has become a term used to describe men who behave as if they are owed things from women for simply being a decent human being. They dont realize that the mere fact of having this expectation means that they are not, in fact, decent human beings, because being kind to a woman with the expectation of a reward later on is not actually decent.

r/niceguys has a bunch of examples like this

This exactly.

There is nothing wrong with asking your friend out. But being a sex pest is annoying, wrong, and abhorrent. You didn't ruin your chance of getting to be with her. You ruined your chance of getting to maintain a good friendship.

She does not want to be with you. Full stop. End of story.

If you want, you might be able to salvage a friendship out of this. If you can legitimately say that you are sorry. You realized that you were being a tool, and selfish, and putting her in an awkward position, and that you really value your friendship with her and would like to start over as friends and nothing more, she might engage with you in that fashion again. She's not obligated to. She may not want to after this. And if she does, that doesn't mean you get to pester her again in 6 months or a year.

She's given you her answer. You have to respect that. And if you can't handle that like an adult and move on, possibly with a friendship intact, then you haven't really learned your lesson.

And if you can accept it, but don't want to maintain the friendship, that's also your prerogative. Learn from this. Don't repeat the same mistake, and move on trying to find another partner.

OP used “nice guy” throughout, not “Nice Guy.”

What we see here class is an example of someone learning what not to do from hurting others. What we should all learn is the same lesson so that women around the world can be treated as human being first and not sexual goals. It's fine to shoot your shot, but that's when you first meet someone.

This stuff needs to be taught in middle school and drilled repeatedly into boys and men's heads: no means no, but also more importantly any answer that isn't somewhere along the lines of "yes, yes, o God yes", then it's actually a no. A wincing yes means no, okay means no, maybe means no no oh God no, I have other plans means no, I'm washing my hair means no, etc etc. And if your timing just sucks, we'll you have the no, so you keep the no and live with the no and move on.

Women learn one way or another to make "soft" rejections to avoid confrontations, in large part due to survival. There's a metaphor I saw along the lines of women are bicycle traffic in a world of cars: a small mistake by either the bicycle or the car will kill the bicycle.

The sad fact is though pop culture from decades ago still forms something of the zeitgeist. Whether it's Pedophile Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, or Han "Corner her in a closet while marooned in space forcing her to be rescued by C3P0" Solo, there's tons of situations that teach boys and men that if they just persist they'll win her heart and it doesn't matter what you do, and it's all wrong.

Learn how to be rejected. Of course she felt this way about you. You alienated yourself. Move on, try to learn from this.

I capitalized it to make the distinction easier for your benefit, but its not strictly necessary. Based off his behavior, and by his own admission, OP knows which one he is

This thing gave me a stroke halfway through.

This reminds me of something that was going around on twitter - it was along the lines of “men talk about the friend zone a lot, but something that doesn’t get talked about is the pain you feel as a woman when you thought you had a friend, but in actual fact all you had was a man pretending to care about you so they could sleep with you”

I feel bad for this poor girl

I obviously don't know the exact words the girl used, but if she wasn't able to straight up say "no", without girl-speak like "not right now" or "im not ready yet" then it's partly on her for not realizing the guy might not have got the message.

I understand it's not easy to flat out say "im not interested in you that way - not now, not ever" or whatever, but after making the excuse the girl should not assume it would be possible to be just friends with the guy. I know in an ideal rational world it should be possible, but emotions and hormones do exist. She needed to cut down on the friendship asap.

What IN the CEL is this post?

Heh.

>There is nothing wrong with asking your friend out. But being a sex pest is annoying, wrong, and abhorrent

Said perfectly.

How else could it be interpreted?

Apparently I’m aging myself here, but I never knew “Nice Guy” was a bad thing and an insult.

I’ve always seen it as the person that does the right thing to their own detriment and typically end up alone. “Nice guys finish last” and all that.

So you say it’s her fault he pestered her and insulted her for months?

This is a great example of seriously problematic thinking. I suppose dressing nice and dancing is an invite to have sex? Or agreeing to a coffee means they are dating you?

Come on. Get your head on straight and understand people aren’t always direct.

>I suppose dressing nice and dancing is an invite to have sex?

Except I'm the one suggesting people should be more direct, so I'm not sure why you'd think I think that.

It's not her fault alone - it's both of their faults, his for not being able to understand she wasn't interested, and hers for not realizing that he'd not stop trying.

And so I'm suggesting that her not being direct ended up causing more trouble for both parties in the long run. This could be avoided by either being direct, or stopping to spend time with him after indirectly saying no to him.

You are blaming someone for not giving an answer in a direct enough way for you or someone else to accept as the answer.

Just take a No as a No. “Nah, not tonight” with no offer for a different time is a No. “Nah, not tonight, but next Wednesday works” is a yes for next Wednesday.

It’s not that difficult. But saying anything at all that blames someone for not yelling No at the pest is a problem.

I think you're underestimating the potential danger women face being more direct with Nice Guy types. I'm absolutely not accusing OP of anything here, but there is, in general, a safety aspect underlying a lot of the gentl3 non-rejection rejections, so just telling women to be more direct is not super helpful.

Should have just been an asshole from the jump and you could have been clapping them cheeks, pulling that hair and making her regret everything!

Must be cheaper than periods and spaces.

If you're familiar with Friends, Ross Geller is what a "nice guy" is by the current definition

>But saying anything at all that blames someone for not yelling No at the pest is a problem

This is the exact type of black-and-white thinking I find so exhausting arguing with. Nothing is an absolute, there is always a scope for suggestions on how something can be done differently.

Just to reiterate my point, a "Nah, not tonight" should be just taken as a "no" by someone thinking rationally, but it has the potential to not be by guys who are in denial. They can reason it out with themselves that "maybe she really meant some other time works fine" - I've seen people do it first hand.

I understand there are other reasons to not be direct, which makes sense to an extent, which is why I'm suggesting the alternative of being indirect and then not spending more time with the person.

If after the initial "No, not tonight", the guy asks to hang out again the next day, the girl should just not. If the guy really got her message, he wouldn't be asking to hang out so soon after anyway.

Yeah I realize that the indirectness, like most common behaviors, is born out of necessity more than anything.

Just saying that it can give the guy an excuse to reason out that it wasn't really a rejection. And if the guy asks to hang out a lot still, after the incident, it should be an immediate red flag for the girl that he hasn't got the message.

Because if it was a direct rejection, very few guys would be okay with hanging out with the girl too often after the incident.

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An anonymous internet user, originating from image boards like 4chan.

Typically associated with incel like behaviour, like OP succinctly describes.

‘Nice guy’ is a label for something else. Others in this thread have described it well

Yeah. Apparently it has been twisted into an insult now.

Thanks for recognising what i meant by 'me becoming the nice guy' a lot of ppl seems to misunderstanding it by drawing it parallel to me calling myself a good person. No i am an asshole.

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The manipulative one. For sure.

Understood thanks

I knew her good for a year or so, by harsh truth i meant that how she was not considering the facts that we were fit together, and efforts i took for her.

I hope i had the wisdom earlier.

😥😥😥it was never an attempt to sleep with her, but i agree with what you saying

I see what you did there 😅😅

I love your explanation.

You are right, the downvotes are just not in your favour

Chill down my man

I would reflect upon this.

I shall comply with your advice

I shall comply with your advice

I agree with this, it's my fault in persisting her but at the same time she didn't speak her mind even at one instance.

Get a law study course.

That doesn't make difference dumbass.

No shit sherlock.

Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick

You should write a thesis on this topic.

I shall

I think you are confusing truths and facts with opinions and perspectives. She probably thinks you're either unattractive or has some other reason to not want to date you. Also, "efforts you took for her?" Do elaborate on these. You spent time talking to her?

Also you should lose the word “shall” from your vocab.

You didn't need to tell me to read the edit. I knew you meant nice guy (tm) and not an actual nice guy. This is why I asked them to define nice guy, which they didn't do.

Eddiepaperhands is just pedantic. They know what a nice guy is. It's why they refused to define it for me, because they also knew what op was saying but wanted to be subversive.

They are also mocking someone who might not have English as a first language without even thinking that the internet is more than just an English speaking space.

The nice guy trope is synonymous with manipulative asshat trying to get laid. Except nice guy takes a lot less to say. This is why I asked you twice to define nice guy, because I feel like you know the trope but are ignoring that on purpose.

Thank you

Yeah, that's the way it goes here.

Not unknowingly.

when we had nothing between us we used to talk a lot at night till 3 am, recently i helped her with college stuff, i was there whenever she could been in trouble. i went out of my way to make sure she doesnt miss on important stuff going in our college, and even to extent of parcelling her some stuff of college. none of her other frnds even asked her or tried to help her

yes, apparently many people did not get the meaning of the word Nice guy

you say that as if you didn't spend months believing the opposite

i did :(

can u elaborate on what you mean.

I don't believe this was 'unknowingly'.

I don't think there is any point in me lying if i say i did it unknowingly, though i would say that i thought of what I was doing was manipulative but i refuted the feeling as i thought of some justification for myself