Damn, that sucks.

Things may seem bad now, but maybe having everything out in the open now is better than continuing to live a lie for who knows how many years?

Or if you would rather lie to avoid making things difficult between you and your family, maybe tell them you were misled by one of your classmates and that you regret what you said/did and promise to be a devout Muslim for the rest of your life.

Come join the infidels club.

With blackjack and hookers ..

Just do you

Religion and the lack thereof are something you grow out of, grow back into, then usually come to a realization more deeply about later in life.

It is COMMON for 18 yr olds to question their religion and the way they were brought up. It is COMMON to become an atheist at this age, just look at the trope of the angry college freshman. There is a reason for this and for you, the focus is your religion, but for many, it's politics, religion, sexual orientation, sexual identity, social status, or goals. This is just a short list, but I believe it's long enough for you to get the gist.

The point I'm trying to make is that at 18 yrs old, this likely feels like the first real step into your own skin that you've had or discovered for yourself. That's good, you should embrace it. But take some advice from someone who has walked your path, and is able to look back on it. It is very unlikely to last forever. When we shed the fallacies of our youth or past, we often turn around and remember them fondly years down the road. It is through this looking back that you can find the truth in the lesson of w/e it is you were pulling yourself away from. For you it's your religion, for me it was the expectations of my parents, for others it's something, and for some of us who are unlucky, they may never find it.

If you would allow me to, I would give you some advice. If not, please disregard the rest of this and just know that I wish you the best in your journey. If so, then I would say. Do not take unto yourself such rash judgements as the belief that this is a viewpoint you will carry forever, I find that this is rarely the case. Do not put the burden of such rash judgements on the feelings of others. In everything that you do, be true to yourself, but realize that does not necessarily mean everybody will agree with you. Loving someone, means understanding that they may not understand you, and loving them anyway. This is a difficult road to tread, but one that i find is usually worth the walk.

Best of luck to you, and I hope you find the way forward that helps you through your situation.

I am aware that what you're saying is very valid. I am aware that my ideas may change but I simply cannot see that happening. I believe (sometimes ignorantly) myself to be a very careful person, I like to think of what-ifs all the time, as a sort of preparation. Me returning to religion hasn't crossed my mind as a what-if, though. Although my talk with my mom has very much come over as a rash and sudden decision, my very first serious doubt of religion came about when I read a fictional book when I was 12. It has been very slowly and gradually eating at me that I cannot grow up like this. What seemed a few years ago like something I hoped to grow out of, in all perverted honesty, has now turned into a reality I have no choice but to embrace. The reality I speak of is not my belief or disbelief, it is the relationship between me and my family. I cannot and do not see my disbelief as something that may change. At least not yet, and because of that, I am afraid.

Ya know, fair enough. If that was what I did this for, this issue would be way easier to solve.

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I feel like your overall message is fine, but this idea that people just "grow out of being an atheist/agnostic" doesn't sit right with me. Many people are atheist or agnostic and stay that way forever, they won't necessarily "turn back" to religion once they get older.

I don't think this is a FU. I think it's really brave of you to talk about it openly with her, even if it didn't go the way you would like. A lot of people never can. I myself have never had that conversation with my (Christian) mother. One's religious beliefs are a very personal thing and I hope that she and your family are able to see that. Best of luck to you.

If that was the take away from my message, then I feel i have miscommunicated. Please do not assume that I meant that OP should reconsider leaving or joining a religion based off of age, as that was absolutely not my intention.

I will summarize, don't make rash decisions, because decisions made at 18 are rarely decisions that last with us our entire lives. It is a very transformative time in our lives, and the knowledge of this is rarely communicated to the people going through it.

I hope that clears that up!

I think their point wasn't about religion specifically so much as that a fiery rejection of whatever one has grown up with is common in young adulthood, and often for reasons we don't understand, but that this emotion may cool in time such that a more reasoned look back throughout life reveals either overlooked things worth appreciating ... or more solid reasons to continue rejecting whatever.

Neither outcome is weird.

Sometimes especially in certain cultures, the latter has far far better outcomes. This kind of thing can turn into a person being completely disowned by their family and tossed on the street with absolutely nothing. I see a bit of that fear in OP's post. It's terrible but some cultures believe that strongly I suppose...

You still love your parents, and you’re still a good person.

Best to you!

I was an agnostic when I was a younger adult. And I was pretty vehemently opposed to a lot of Christianity.

I do believe in God, or perhaps just flows of energy in the universe that are too big for me to understand. I found a branch of Christianity that has values I agree with, and is not the classic, conservative Christianity. My church is welcoming to all (not just giving lip service) and even partners with other non-Christian religions in community service.

My point is, you may find something later in life that makes more sense to your values. I am sorry you are having a difficult time navigating this with your family. I hope you are true to your beliefs and don't allow this to guilt you too much. Your whole job as a human, after all, is to learn and grow and love. Religion is just a vessel some use to that purpose, God has bigger things to deal with than a few sips of booze or which book you read on Sunday. Anyone who pretends otherwise is presuming to know the unknowable.

I don't see this as a FU. I too am somebody who came from a religious background, though not particularly strict, and fell away from religion at a young age. It sounds, from the way you tell it, like your mother is worried 1. about what your father will think, and 2. about your "soul."

I don't have much to say about if your family can't accept you for who you are and what you believe. The real truth is that if they don't, you're going to have to make some serious decisions at some point. But as far as your soul is concerned, I think things can be a lot more palatable to your family if you can show some appreciation for some of the social customs that go along with your religion and some of the good memories you've had. You mention having had a good childhood and good family. That's great! You can still celebrate Ramadan and Eid and any of the other Muslim holidays I'm not familiar with with your family, the same as I can celebrate Christmas or Easter or whatever. And you can have a lot of fun and still build plenty of memories just as a matter of tradition. That doesn't mean you have to stick with some of the more overbearing traditions that some Muslim sects have or actually have any beliefs.

I expect that once your mother (and possibly father) have the opportunity to digest this change, you'll be okay. I would expect to be harassed about finding God. Trust me, I've heard that one from the older folks in my family for 20 plus years.

Can I play roulette too?

Thank you for summarizing my point better than I could

Religion should be a choice yet so many people are born into one.

My Mom is a Jehovahs Witness and would be quite forceful with it when we were younger (especially as school age kids). My Dad was Catholic and eventually put his foot down and basically gave her a choice of compromise for his kids to (how I have always seen it) live as "normal" a childhood we could. We started celebrating very select holidays...their compromise was just that they couldn't be celebrated on the actual holiday itself and would be called something different. (Example: Christmas was on Dec 23rd and called "present day" where we just got presents). One of these compromises was also that we not be forced to go to the hall or Bible study and would only go if we chose to but if we chose not then we still had to at least go for "memorial" each year. (Easter for those who don't know what it is) My mom would bribe us that if we were good and attentive at the hall for "memorial" we would get dairy queen ice cream afterward.

When I was 16 I didnt get dressed up and ready to go to "memorial" and my mom was so angry it turned into a screaming match and she was trying to force me to go (while making herself and my little sister late). My Dad told her "shes 16. She can decide for herself. If she doesnt want to go she doesnt have to. I told her "you can't bribe me with ice cream anymore." I watched my mom's heart shatter through her eyes at that moment, but i didn't back down and haven't since.

She eventually got over it. It took some time but she did. 20yrs later, she still tries to force her beliefs on me and when I'd disagree with her she would get angry and start screaming at me. It got to a point a couple years ago that I told her I will respect her beliefs but she is to respect mine, too, and that i will no longer talk religion with her and if she tries I will simply hang up the phone or if it's in person I will leave, and if she tries to recruit my son into it she won't be allowed around him without me, my ex husband(his dad), his dad's girlfriend, or my husband.

I don't know what Muslim beliefs are when it comes to things like this, but I would say to just reassure your Mom often how much you love and value her and your family. Make sure she knows. I hope things look up for you, but I don't see this as a FU. But again, I'm unaware of Muslim beliefs so I hope I'm right in thinking relationships can be salvaged here and agreeing to disagree in the future is possible.

What country are you from?

And nah you didn't fu. It's your life. Live the way you want it. If they (your parents) don't want you to he happy and be your own person, then they're not good parents and you shouldn't delude yourself into thinking so

It’s a religion that believes in fairy tales. Good in you for realizing it, hopefully your siblings follow

And hopefully the parents will also still love them even if they don’t have the same religious beliefs.

Hello

For an 18 year old sinner you are very articulate.

Anyways, sorry for your predicament things will probably be difficult for a time but nothing has to be broken or stay broken.

You said: "We've not always financially been in the best spot, yet I've always had everything I needed given to me, with the only thing asked of me in return is my love and the promise to be a good person"

Not joining the delusion of religion means nothing in regards to your giving love or being a good person.

If you feel so stressed out, pick something that your family or religion values which you also value. Then spend some energy there. By making the world a better place in a way that your family recognizes you can accomplish a lot of things that will help you at this age. You can 1. Make the world better - yay! 2. Show your love to your parents and their community. 3. Meet people who can help broaden your circle to include secular people as well - hopefully without antagonizing your family.

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Your true character reveals itself during challenging situations like this. The situation is not over, You should proceed with love in your heart and courage to be the man that you want to be. No one is perfect not even parents.

And also there is the whole their house their rules thing that should be very well respected.

And craps too!

I’m not a fan of kids being born into things. Every one is allowed to make their own choices in life. I’m in the same boat as you OP.

It sounds to me like the alcohol is the root problem. She may fear that you lack guiding principles (especially without religion) and takes the alcohol as prime evidence.

She wants the best for you and fears that you will not work hard towards becoming a strong member of your community or family unit.

If you want things to be better you have to commit to change. It's OK to not be religious. It's OK to drink alcohol. But it's not OK to bring it into her house.

Do as well in school as you can. Find other ways to help out and be productive, make it routine.

Above all else, forgive them if they wrong you in the days to come, prove that you can be the kind of person they hope you to be, religion aside. Give them a chance to accept you once you have shown there is nothing to fear.

Things look bleak now, but in a few years you may look back and say that today was the day you turned it around and saved your future. This trial will be forgotten.

While I'm wholly in support of choosing your religion or lack of it (I myself I'm atheist all family are catholic) I think people should be a bit careful in letting others know, especially if leaving your religion could bring harm to you or cause serious problems in navigating life where you live.

In some places apostasy is a thing, and in other places while nothing as drastic as that exists, people knowing you aren't religious will literally mean you will be sidelined for jobs or not even be considered at all.

Not every country is progressive and has progressive people.

I live in western Europe, that's thankfully not a worry of mine

Thank goodness for that. I myself live in a country in West Africa and in my country atheists or agnostics aren't looked at kindly. Worse if one is a muslim in muslim majority areas and they leave. Safety is a serious issue, and denial of work opportunities is normal.

Jehova's is a complicated religion. Part of it is that you have to try your best to teach others. Your mom has a quota of number of people she has to talk to each week, if she doesn't she will go to hell (or thats what she believes). It must be really tough to be a Jehovas Witness, I fell sorry for them. Thinking about it, I now also feel sorry for that certain kind of vegan we all know... Seems very similar.

So this is going to be hard to hear but sometimes it takes something like this to grow your own life. It's not being ungrateful to your parents to have your own beliefs, hopes, dreams and desires. Your definition of a good person is allowed to be different to that of your mom's. Judging from her reaction though she is shocked, I don't believe she thinks that you're a bad person. Focus on your studies, and continue to grow your own life. Continue to show your appreciation to your parents and I'm sure over time they will find comfort in what you are building for yourself.

Good luck, better hope they don’t believe in the law of apostasy

I don’t actually know any vegans like the one you say 😅maybe one day, but I know a lot of vegans and they’re all cool.

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Reminds me of the definition of a cult.

Because they are. When you need pressure but overt and covert to keep adherents, it is a cult.

It sounds like your mom loves you more than she loves her religion, she is just struggling with that decision a bit at the moment. Just do your best to show her that even without religion you can be a good person

Truly isnt, free to join, free to leave. It’s the culture around the religion that becomes toxic.

Yup, it's truly a stereotype. Most vegans just want to live (and eat) in peace and know that missionizing people won't do anyone a favour. Weird thing to say.*

*Edit: was informed the comment made was aimed towards ThatVeganTeacher. Yup, that person is definitely not a good example.

Wow, that sucks. Religion should bring people together, not divide them. As an agnostic, religion is like children arguing about who has the best imaginary friend to me. That doesn't mean I can't respect people and their religious beliefs as long as they don't force their beliefs down my throat or call for violence etc. towards 'non-believers'. Can't it be the same with your parents, only vice versa? Why should they stop loving and caring for you bc you don't share their beliefs? Unless they are hardliners, I think they will learn to get used to it. If not, I don't see any other way than moving out of your parent's house into your own place once you can. I hope youre going to be ok, OP.

Very well said. Have my poor person's award: 🏅

You've got to learn religion, seems to be the only way to fix your situation, that and studying well. I don't mean completely devote yourself (you can if you want) but just find yourself understanding of religion. I'd recommend listening to some of what Jordan Peterson talks about I'm relation to religion. The main thing you have to understand is that religion, in my eyes at least, isn't just believing in a specific story about some all powerful dude but rather taking in the teachings. The stories told in all religious books have a lot to offer if you only read them. I'd you take those teaching and apply them to your life I guarantee you'll be better off. Btw, this is coming from someone who didn't believe in a 'God' until about 6 months to a year ago and I'm 21. I'm still not big on the whole concept of it but I definitely see its benefits and belief is currently helping me through a rough patch. Remember, you're not defined by your mistakes but rather what you make of them, this doesn't have to be the end of your relationship with your mum, I guarantee you if you bust your ass off to repair it you will. Gl homie 🤙

Search up ThatVeganTeacher and you'll see what they're referring to. It wasn't a generalisation, it was a dig at her 👍

Don't think this shows she loves him or religion more than the other it shows she loves both her religion and her son. His mom cried probably because she feels guilty or at fault because in her eyes her son isn't following into her and her husband's belief and she might feel responsible that he hasn't followed her path and maybe blaming her every action. I don't think she is disappointed in him, she might be disappointed in herself. OP said his mom didn't tell his dad which is bit surprising as I would expect her to just immediately tell dad and dad would get SUPER pissed but she let him alone probably in hope that he finds the religion himself one day.

r/unexpectedfuturama

You just described every single religion

You have put into words what I was going to write. I, too was brought up jehovahs witness and didn't have birthdays or Christmases. I have notnhad the fanily upset though as my mum moved away from those beliefs when I was about 10 I think.

Anyway I agree with what you've said OP shouldn't feel bad. His mum will get over it. It's not really his fault even though he feels that it is. The best thing to do is be kind and considerate to her but stand firm.

I think you’re brave and reasoning with people deep into religion/cult mindsets is almost impossible. I’d play along and focus on job/studies. Until you’re able to live on your own then you can break free. And run your household based on science and not magic books.

I just want to say what a kind and considerate young man you sound. This is not your fault, even though you feel guilty. Your life is your choice and you can't let others rule it, even if they are family. It is still fresh now so your mum will look hurt for a bit, but it's not your fault. Just remind her that you love and appreciate her and everything she's done and that's never going to change. This is just the difficult part but it will pass.

Well said 👏🏽

I'm sorry, this must be such a painful situation. It is so difficult when you feel you've let your parents down in a way you didn't feel like you could avoid. It is a terrible feeling, bc you know they see it as a lack of gratitude and respect when it is neither. I think it might help if you sat her down and explained why you aren't following the rules of your religion despite them wishing you to. Explain to her why it doesn't make sense to you, but more importantly explain how sad you are to be doing something you know hurts them. You clearly care a lot about showing them love and respect, so I imagine you wouldn't have given up your religion if it weren't something you felt you had to do. Tell her that. Tell her that your decision had nothing to do with how much you love and respect your parents bc that will never change no matter what you believe about Allah. I think where you messed up was having alcohol in the house. Not being Muslim is one thing, but if your parents are like my parents, I bet she's terrified you have a drinking problem. I think you need to reassure her that you leaving your religion does not mean you're going to become a drunkard or a terrible person, that you are still going to be a good person but just one who doesn't follow the same path as her. Don't keep alcohol or anything else in the house which could make them worry about not being Muslim sending you down a bad path. They will see you haven't changed once the initial shock fades.

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Ooh, thanks for the clarification, that person totally slipped my mind. Ugh, she's a handful.

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Our parents are not supposed to raise us to become mini versions of them nor should they expect us to be completely aligned in all matters in life -serious or frivolous-. Do not feel guilty over this. If your parents are the amazing parents you are describing them to be, they should understand. If not, I'm sorry but this is not something you need to beat yourself up for. If I were you, I would seek professional assistance by a mental health professional in order to guide me through this period of my life. It is a different thing to love your parents and another one to seek their approval.

All the best.

As someone who's grown up in a Muslim household myself, I understand your situation. However, before I dive any deeper, I first want you to understand that you did NOT fuck up by owning up to it and telling her the cold hard truth. It's probably the best thing you could've done in your situation, and I respect you for doing that.

One of the problems with most parents, particularly the conservative type (I actually don't know how conservative your parents are mind you), is that they tend to hyperbolize their children's shortcomings. Whenever a child fucks up, instead of sitting down and having "the talk", the parents will give off the vibe that you're committed the most horrible of atrocities imaginable. You mentioned that you had a verbal exchange with your mother ending with the "work hard and focus on your studies" bit. I'm not sure how well she communicated the situation, or whether she addressed the elephant in the room in the first place regarding the alcohol, but I guess you could count that as the talk. The way she's acting afterwards however, is not healthy for the child. I'll get to that in a bit.

Her reaction is quite natural. She's understandably upset that her child has deviated from the path she set out for them. Anyone would be in her place; I don't blame her for that. But at the end of the day, you as a parent should understand that children will fuck up. It's not a matter of if, but when. You gotta build that mindset when raising one, something that parents in this side of the town unfortunately fail to grasp. Your job as a parent in this situation is to guide them in the right direction. Whether they take that guidance afterwards is on them, and they'll have to live with the respective consequences (this is also something they have the responsibility of making abundantly clear to said child).

The tactic your mother's employing however, partly borne from her own emotions, is to build up a mountain of guilt in a passive-aggressive manner that devastates you. It associates this extremely negative (often traumatic) patch of memory to an indulgence they do not endorse (in this case alcohol) to ensure you recall said moments when committing to said indulgence again in the hope that triggering said memory will discourage them from doing so. From experience I can tell you that only works 40% of the time. Regardless, what I want you to take away from this is: don't think too hard into it. It's just the way some parents handle the situation, and your mom happens to fall into this specific category. Some parents would approach this better, others exponentially worse. Deal with this in a mature way, but don't let it get to you.

Let's put your family and friends to the side for a second and focus on you. Look, you're 18. This is THE prime time for you to experience everything this shithole has to offer and grow yourself as a person off of that. This is the part of your life where you'll be making the shittiest of life choices and learning from them. Just don't go in too deep. Be mindful of which path you're treading, and make sure you're in a spot where you can pull yourself out of the situation if it spirals out of control. The way you do that is by striving a middle ground between your vices and the values you were taught by your parents and the religion that you reluctantly committed to all these years. Whether you choose to be a man of faith or not down the line, always learn to respect these teachings in the brief time you were remotely attached to the religion; the reason being that the ideal lifestyle any religious practice strives is that of stability, and therefore offers a reference point that you can always come back to when charting a course. Maintaining this stance helps you grow to be a wiser person without drifting off the deep end.

You've got your whole fucking life ahead of you fam. Treat this as a learning experience, but don't let it weigh down on you too much. Keep doing what you're doing at university and work. Show your mama that you're growing up to a responsible adult and that you got your shit together despite the vortex of all the unhinged shit young-adult life has to throw at you. Regardless of what happens, I hope your relationship with your family only gets stronger after this farther down the line. It might not feel like that right now, but give it a few years, and both you and your mom will be laughing your ass off about it.

r/subsididntknowexisted

I was born Catholic and all that it entailed. Going to church every Sunday, celebrating all the major holidays and believing that everyone thinks the same way I do (largely because Poland was and most likely still is a very Catholic country). In the last few years I’ve distanced myself from a Catholicism because I don’t agree with what the Catholic Church teaches and also lean closer to atheism or agnosticism. My parents don’t really know that I don’t consider myself Catholic anymore and just think that I’m not a practicing Catholic which is mostly true. The point I’m trying to make is that as long as you’re still a good person, and choose to accept that others may have different beliefs, you’ll be able to pull through.

Best of luck

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If it's okay for aethiests to encourage you to abandon religion then it's okay for me to suggest this: I've been in a similar situation. I couldn't believe, not really until things got really bad. At that point I looked for god in the most earnest way possible and ended up finding him. Things that didn't make sense to me before started to be crystal clear over time. I am ready to be down voted to oblivion, but I had to say this.

In fact, forget the club and the blackjack! Eh screw the whole thing

Are you doing well in uni? Are your grades slipping as a result of your recent behavior(s)? If not, then just talk to your parents. Say that I know that religion is great in a lot of ways and helps many people, but it just isn't for me. If they don't respond positively immediately, eventually they'll understand. At least that's what worked for me

Take some mushrooms or LSD and you will understand what to do and the truth God is real your parents are just mistaken by his form the Abrahamic religions are way off and abusive definitely don't practice them but their material does have good points and what not to learn and incorporate but God is within so you must look within to figure out what needs to be done.

Wow that's insanely toxic and any religion that promotes that behavior is toxic too

Yah toxic predatory terrible that sounds like a cult didn't know they were that bad they shouldn't be allowed to exist

I am not saying I agree with JWs. On anything. Everyone has the right to believe what they want, and I have the right to pity them for worrying more about the afterlife than the current life.

This is your right !! Totally your right to believe what you believe in! Good for you. Your a strong person and it’s awesome you are being honest with yourself

I was extremely atheist and logical from 14 on I didn't believe in any god or anything I'm still very logical and the most logical thing is that "god" exists but you have to experience and see it for yourself and things will click

I mean a lot do it's common because it's more logical that God exists and we are part of it and the teen years are of rebelling and questioning. Sure there's plenty of people who stay athiest and the numbers are increasing but they're about to start dipping again and spirituality will be much more common now that the psychedelic revolution is happening and people are starting to wake up.

Being forced to proselytize on a weekly quota or your soul being condemned for all eternity is extremely fucked up to make someone beleive

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by that logic, all religions are cults

Why make this specifically about Muslims though? They're all cults. Say if the Abrahamic religions had never existed until today, and someone started preaching about them in 2023, almost everyone would think they were insane cults.

The only difference between the "old guard" religions and the modern ones is that people were a lot easier to fool back in ancient times, so they gained traction.

literally none of that is true. some people act like this person's mother, and I myself have not always seen eye to eye with my mother when she, essentially, tries to guilt me into doing something, and we all have our personal gripes. What you said however is blatant lies. as far as OP, I wouldn't say not to feel bad about it, but don't let it get to you. I'm also not Muslim, but baring the unlikely cases, most parents, and im assuming yours as well from your description, want what is best for their kids. Obviously they think being Muslim is the best , but I think they feel more sad that, in their eyes, you're not getting "the best".

How lucky are you to be born into a family that will disown you if you drink a liquid that's freely available for purchase and consumption and not illegal or harmful in moderation?

I feel so bad for you, because I know what it's like to want your parents' approval, (not due to religious beliefs in my case, but for other reasons). Are you in a position that you could move out on your own, because that sounds like about the only thing that you might be able to do now. If you are afraid of what your dad will say, you KNOW that at some point, your mom will HAVE to tell your dad, and that's when the other shoe will drop. (and maybe fly across the room and hit you in the head, like my mom did me--and that shit HURT!!)

Are you working at all? Could you and a few friends get a place together?? At least then, you could have some time to sort out your relationship with your parents, without the fear of being disowned, or put out, (which seems like what you might be afraid of. I would be). I don't know a lot about the Muslim Faith, even though I have a few relatives who belong to that Faith. I know in a lot of families that DO practice it, that the dad makes the rules, and they must be followed, or else. PLEASE be careful, and if you can go somewhere til things get sorted out, do it soon, so that your mom isn't stuck with this "secret" for too long. Good luck!