Honestly, it should be 10 times more.

Seems like a blip of news

"We'll fine them 1/2 percent of the weekly profit from broadcasting NFL games. That will teach them! What else can we do?"

This seems like the sort of thing an executive was likely warned about, but said do it anyway.

They make 100 million a week broadcasting nfl?

Saved you a click. They played the emergency broadcast tone for a football commercial. You aren't allowed to use the tone to protect its integrity.

>US media titan Fox stands accused of playing the Emergency Alert System attention tone to promote an NFL show on dozens of TV channels

Should be more. Nothing will be learned other than that it's merely the fee for pulling this type of stunt.

Anyone got the link?

500k isn’t even one commercial slot.

Fuck Fox

Not just 100 million a week, 100 million in profit a week.

That's 5.2 billion dollars in profit per year.

So you should buy their stock.

Something to learn from being on Reddit is people are loose in numbers if they are used for their purpose. $500,000 isn't enough, but it's not 0.5% of weekly profit. Most people here don't understand numbers in general

If that's the sound, I'm surprised the fine isn't higher

[deleted]

Buy their stocks? The only thing I’ll ever give Fox is a Molotov cocktail.

> The use of the sound is prohibited to prevent people becoming desensitized to something you should only hear in the most dire circumstances.

Please include emergency service sirens in that, too.

You’re right, for big companies like Fox it’s not a fine. It’s no different than a billionaire getting a parking ticket, it’s not a deterrent, that’s just how much it costs to park there.

When you buy their stock it's not really giving them money. Not directly anyhow. Unless they just happen to be the one selling the shares, but I think most companies are more interested in buying shares than selling right now (from my limited understanding).

Maybe it's a flat fine? You can't expect a local TV channel to pay a million bucks. That fine is nothing to Fox

[deleted]

Eg. Radio commercials that use things like police sirens to get people to pay attention.

Back when it was first created in the 1970s or '80s, 500,000 was a lot more money. I imagine the fine has not gone up in 50 years and therefore is now just the cost of doing business.

[deleted]

Use of emergency service sound effects isn't prohibited. Currently.

Idk how it works in television but having worked in radio, I can tell you that these tones trip the EAS software/hardware to go into alert mode. Using this sound recklessly - like in a commercial - could trip the actual EAS to activate, though very likely without any messaging. You’d effectively be watching/hearing a blank alert. Moreover, “end tones” have to be played to allow the alert to conclude; without those tones, the alert stays active until someone manually ends it.

In short, don’t fucking play around with the EAS tones.

Yes, i made a comment with inaccurate financial numbers on a reddit post. If you expected perfect accuracy and research in numbers, i really don't know what to do for you.
I'm not a journalist or expecting people to source my off-the-cuff reddit comment. However, let's actually do some math since you seem interested.
The latest contract fox signed with the NFL has them PAYING the NFL 2 billion dollars a year for the rights to broadcast. Let's assume 20 weeks of games with playoffs, etc. That means that FOX paid 100 million per week to the nfl. They wouldn't do that if it wasn't profitable. A 500k fine into that 100 million is literally 1/2 of a percent.
I realize i said profit and not revenue. However, the size of the revenues involved here absolutely validate my point, which was this:
A 500k fine for this kind of offense is similar to fining the average person $1. It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever, and it will deter exactly 0 people.

> Yes, i made a comment with inaccurate financial numbers on a reddit post. If you expected perfect accuracy and research in numbers, i really don't know what to do for you.

What makes you think I'm expecting anything from you? If anything, my comment serves to illustrate I know better than to expect accurate numbers from Reddit

> A 500k fine for this kind of offense is similar to fining the average person $1. It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever, and it will deter exactly 0 people.

So, you wrote all that because you think I'm disagreeing it's not enough when I also said this?

> $500,000 isn't enough...

I'm not really following what's motivating you lol

In 2013, some numbskull thought it would be cool to use the EAS tones in the movie trailer for “Olympus Has Fallen”, and it got broadcast on multiple networks before it was pulled.

https://www.vox.com/2014/3/3/11624116/cable-channels-hit-with-nearly-2-million-fine-for-airing-movie-trailer

They PAY the nfl 100 million a week, roughly, to have the broadcast rights. So, my number is probably inaccurate. Is it wrong enough to invalidate the point, though?

Yeah, but to be fair I doubt any company, mega or not, would willingly use it knowing it’ll cost half a million dollars, especially when there’s alternatives to using it.

There was a local radio station near me that used the sound of screeching tires to announce their traffic (on the 8's) broadcast. Every time I thought there was some car careening into me.

Of course, I stopped listening to that station.

Living in DC I’m already quite desensitized to sirens going off every few minutes

You’re not wrong, but they also have been giving away $100,000 every week for an NFL pick’em contest. Which I’m pretty sure is just data collection racket at its core anyway. So what’s another $500,000.

If any business is able to just print it’s own money, it’s the NFL and it’s broadcast partners. I would not be at all shocked if it was 100% intentional.

so he comes up with your numbers and this is your reply? you seem like a real prick

Gentlemen, to evil!

i like the idea behind scaling up traffic tickets for someone's wealth/income, a few countries do that and it make sense. should happen with a lot of fines or else the fines don't even matter.

like that walmart heiress that keeps getting duis. what a dui in the end, like 20-30k? that's literally nothing to her. there is no incentive to change her behavior. but that amount is absolutely devastating to a working or lower-middle class person, achieving it's goal.

They pulled the fire alarm during a Super Bowl ad then?

Fines go up. The threshold for meeting that fine is what never changes.

If you're ever unsure, just ask yourself, "Which way is more advantageous to the State?" You'll have your answer.

Wow, sorry your reading comprehension is limited. Dude stated this:

> Yes, i made a comment with inaccurate financial numbers on a reddit post.

That's what I said. His subsequent explanation was basically a justification of why he made up numbers. I agree that the penalty is too little, which was made clear by the following:

> $500,000 isn't enough...

Somehow, dude still replied to emphasize that his point was still valid because the numbers are large. Where did I disagree that $500K wasn't enough, again? I didn't.

Point is that neither you or numbers guy know how to read, or read too much into whatever I wrote. And yet somehow, I'm the one being harangued lol

Don't expect much from Reddit XD

edit: also, he didn't come with numbers. These are the actual numbers: https://investor.foxcorporation.com/reports/quarterly-reports

They should raise the fine to one meeeeeellllllliiiooonn dollars.

It's another 500K that's what.

The point of a commercial is to draw attention to a product. Any company would use it if they think the attention is worth the cost.

Weird, the article says the audio was used in a promo for a game in November, 2021. So why does the FCC care now?

I kind of like how people are acting like this was some boardroom decision about an ad for a show. This was made by a creative, then approved by probably a mid-level executive, maybe as part of a committee, but probably not, depending on his/her title.

I feel like this fine is plenty of incentive for them to stop doing it in the end, though

Doesn’t seem like it. The article mentions:

> The Federal Communications Commission, which polices use of the sound to protect its integrity, now wants to fine the organization $504,000 – just as it did for Hollywood action film Olympus Has Fallen ($1.9 million, 2014) right down to Jimmy Kimmel Live ($395,000, 2019).

Just to own the libs.

[removed]

Seems pretty pointless to fine a multinational corporation a half million. Not much of a deterrent

Finland does this, and they set the record for the biggest trafic fine in the world when a Nokia exec gor caught speeding.

>The use of the sound is prohibited to prevent people becoming desensitized to something you should only hear in the most dire circumstances. "To preserve the unique purpose and effectiveness of the EAS Tones, the Commission enforces laws that prohibit their use or simulation, except for specific permitted uses," the FCC said.

With the number of times I've heard the alerts for their weekly tests, I've already become desensitized to it.

It is illegal to use sirens in radio ads but seemingly no one cares

Screeching tires on the radio is also illegal crazy that so many radio stations pull this crap

Does anyone have a link to the sound? I couldn't find in the article and I'm not from US so I've never heard it.

Every time something like this happens I have to ask: Does anyone else remember a TV promo for 21 Days later that aired post 9/11 that began with the Emergency Alert sounds and CDC biohazard warnings?

I saw it only once during primetime and had nightmares about it for a month. Been looking for it ever since

They probably factored the fine into the cost while they were making said commercial.

Here's a fictional demonstration.

The three distorted tones at the start and end of the messages are the issue.

Yeah, I wish we would stop fining large corporations. Nullify their patents/trademarks or something like that instead. That might be a bit extreme in this case, but when large fines and maybe sending executives to jail are the worst punishments we give large corporations, it's insane that we think they'll learn any kind of lesson.

Let’s talk about that - wtf is that all about? Why are we trying to own each other? Shouldn’t we be working together?

Few people actually understand how the world of business works lol.

Would be better if the fine was per instance.

I remember when Olympus has Fallen was hitting theaters, we broadcast the trailer with that sound. Soooo many flags went up in our control room, we ran it up the flagpole very quickly and pulled it off our server list, but the damage was done. Don’t mess around with the FCC.

If it wasn’t much of a deterrent then it would happen more often.

It's almost just a very expensive licensing fee. They already pay licensing fees to play short clips of music. Same thing.

My Dad works in radio and TV signals and has worked one of these cases. He demonstrated to me the episode of Young Sheldon a few years back that played the real tones. He ran it through the decoder and it came up as a Tornado Warning at a specific time for a specific location.

[deleted]

So was it a lawyer review failure? Or the fine is worth the cost?

If the government actually wanted people to follow the law maybe the should be giving out real punishments, $500,000 could easily be less than they made by advertise this way

They should be fined much more likely a percentage of corporation's total worth, say 25% and the people directly responsible should face jail time, but you know that would be if we actually wanted to deter people from committing crimes

Eh. I doubt that using this specific tone profits FOX half a million more than any other tone.

So it only cost fox 500k to do what they wanted basically.

[deleted]

It’s why the bwomp was invented - it’s a sound that sounds very serious and eerie without being an emergency alert.

Article says 18 stations broadcast it, fine should be 18 fines of $500,000, aka $9 Million.

Except they don’t get to keep using it. Each use is a new fine.

The eighties was only like ten years ago though… oh… oh god

You're older than you've ever been...

And now you're even older...

And now you're even older...

And now you're older still...

Even if it was, that means that large companies could use it and pay the "tax" on using it. There is definitely a balance where the fine won't outweigh the sales boom from the attention it is causing. Imo this was absolutely a calculated maneuver.

It's not illegal (In the US. The UK and much of Europe is more sensible). Just about the only sound that can't be used is the US is the EBS Tone. Sirens, screeching tires, gunshots... anything you hear on broadcast TV, can also legally be used on the radio.

Per the FCC: "licensees should be aware of possible adverse consequences of the use of sirens and other alarming sound effects."

Which pretty much means "We DGAF. It's up to a judge to decide if you're liable if there's a problem."

So it’s pay-as-you-go

Is that Staten Island getting nuked?

As John Rogers says, "A fine is a price."

You might even expand it to "A fine is a price that you only occasionally have to pay."

Yeah 500k is only the cost of a halfway decent house these days.

I don’t watch that show, but I recall seeing promos for an episode about a tornado. Did the producers just copy a random tornado warning alert and use it on the show? If so, that’s kind of hilarious until/unless the EAS went off.

I guess so… but fines can ratchet up if they are meant to deter a behavior or action. So if they tried to budget for it then it would be very uncertain.

It is

Fox is a right wing propaganda machine that began in 1997

I bet it’s been around for a long time and this is the first time it’s been used. So when it was made in the 40s or 50s it was a big deal.

At least that’s what I hope

Same potential consequences if you play any of Japan's emergency alert tones and chimes in public. They even warn foreign tourists not to use them as ringtones.

What kinda psychopath thinks its okay to use that sound for a promotion?!

Yep. I looked it up because the article incorrectly suggests the film makers were fined for using the tone, which doesn't make sense as a film isn't a broadcast. It was actually several cable companies that received the fine for broadcasting a trailer that used the tone.

no its like a speeding ticket. you kow what happens after you get enough speeding tickets?

How much though? 5 million? 1 billion?

[removed]

You saved me no such click. The Register is worthy of anybody's read, and the article was informative.

Given that they could have used a slightly different tone and not get a fine, it still seems like a decent enough deterrent.

It needs to play often enough people know what it is and don’t panic, but not so often it becomes ignored. Additionally, that tone gets picked up EAS systems which do certain things with it within the broadcast system. So just playing it randomly could potentially affect those systems in more ways than just the tone simply playing.

[deleted]

There should be a rule about this for police sirens on the radio

Maybe they shouldn't run weekly tests then

Fines really need to be percentage based on net worth. But obviously we'll never get that in a plutocrat controlled environment.

Oh if this isn't the truest thing. Moved here less than a year ago, sirens have lost all meaning.

Not sure why fines like this aren't stated as a percent of the value/revenue of the entity that committed the crime to ensure they stay relevant.

I mean is anyone worried that FOX doesn’t have $500k?😂

TIL that the Emergency Alert radio frequency logo is the Deathly Hallows symbol.

Play the emergency tone, now your bosses’ bosses’ boss gets solitary? Sounds like a plan!

I mean, we’re all talking about it.

And car horns

Point, though is r/television really the demographic who cares about sports?

[removed]

If risk of executives or board members doing any jail or prison time for things was actually on the table, we could fix so many things.

I'm glad they're getting fined for this, it's a stupid thing to do. I also hate when commercials play sirens or phone noises while I'm in the car.

Why couldn't we have done this for emergency siren noises on broadcast radio? That was so aggravating and certainly more dangerous than hearing the EAS tone.

When I was young and working in retail, I had a lady argue with me because she swore the CEO of the company is the one who manually approves/sets the individual prices on everything, and that I, as a minimum wage-working teenager, somehow had a direct line to call him so she could complain to him. I worked at Target. How some people get through life with rocks between their ears is beyond me.

It should be, but this is america, corporations always get a break

Lmaooo I work in retail (wholesale building supplies, big box stores) and had a lady in receiving say she was going to personally call our CEO about late deliveries. Said go for it lol, don't think she was able to reach him.

People are literally so stupid it blows my mind. Like blows my mind everyday.

https://youtu.be/kU7wmFEppj8 starts at 1:00 in

Eh. Mistake happen. A one time mistake like this is perfect for a fine.

Now repeat offenses or blatantly ignoring the law - I'm with you.

Wells Fargo / HSBC makes a business out of breaking the law. Making billions then paying a few hundred thousands in fines.

[deleted]

It’s low enough that they won’t pay to fight it. But the real question is where does that money go.

Why can't Hollywood use it, especially given that it would be entirely appropriate within the context of what is going on in Olympus Has Fallen?

I thought it was the tone you hear before the national weather service reports that you can't use. The one with the three short repeats.

I'm pretty sure I've heard drunk driving PSAs or the "click it or ticket" ads (some of which are made *by the government/law enforcement themselves) use sirens.

Given the story of that movie it makes complete sense to have the tones in it. And a film isn't a broadcast. You know there's no real alert breaking in to the theater screen.

But I guess I can see why you can't have them in the trailer.

Yeah exactly. That’s what happens when you have someone in cinema post-production making a trailer edit without understanding broadcast standards.

I live in a college town and every time in September when the new out of state/international students hear the monthly tornado siren test for the first time is a fun explanation.

And the long one after those first three tones.

If you live in the US you've heard it. Whenever they break in with a national weather service report like a tornado warning, that uses the same tones that this is talking about.

As others have said it’s to protect the integrity of it. If it’s being used in movies and TV shows then people get use to hearing it and it loses its impact and people won’t listen to it when it is real and just ignore it as being a movie on tv or something like that. Even if it makes sense in the context of the movie you are still using something that is only meant for emergencies and that’s it. The more it gets used outside of that though the less impact it has and so emergencies won’t be listened to as much or brushed off and ignored as not being the real deal.

But if I'm watching a movie then I know it's not really breaking in to deliver an actual message. The concern would be with live broadcasts. I suppose airing a movie on cable you might have to edit that, but in a theater or on a home edition it shouldn't matter.

I already am desensitized to it because the tornado warnings on the radio use the same sound and the listening area of the radio station is such that I hear warnings for folks three counties away which does not affect me in the slightest.

You realize they show movies on tv, right?

You realize I mentioned that in my comment, right?

Others may not though. The point remains that it should never be used except for emergencies and as others have pointed out this tone can trigger other things to happen as well which can then in turn create an emergency.

Well obviously not because you still recognise it and know it to be in use for an emergency. You aren’t desensitised. Just because you may not react doesn’t mean you are desensitised. You still know “that’s an emergency”. If it’s being played all the time in movies and tv and such you eventually hit a point where you stop thinking emergency and think “eh just a movie”. Your brain stops recognising it as an emergency sound and as just a sound that’s recognisable but not anything to worry about.

That would be like most of us being fined 50 cents.

It's an alert, so if it's used often you get desensitized to it and may not pay attention to alerts in the future because you assume it's a TV show or movie.

Im not surprised at all that in 2023 a huge company doesn’t pay a fair fine.

Emergency services sirens can and should be used in movies and TV series. They are banned from radio because a driver may mistake a real siren for a radio siren or vice versa

Yeah, but a movie isn't a live broadcast so that's a totally different situation.

Article says that three have been fined. It seems that the deterrence factor is there.

A fox movie that makes $500k at the box office would be considered a commercial failure. Yes it’s actual money, but it is effectively nothing for a corporation, a rounding error.

If you are trying to actually protect anything it shouldn’t be a rounding error.

It’s not really. Fox’s regional sports network is valued at $22 billion (from a few minutes of googling). So they are fined about 0.002% of their value. It’s not even worth writing down, it’s less than a rounding error for the corporation.

It’s those three short tones, one long beep, then three (slightly different) short tones again. this

Thanks!

More like government grifting. Its cost of doing biz for the corps. But significant money to the department. If you watch you will see this type of grift all over the globe. All governments are doing it.

Like a snickers bar to them. Make it 500 mil

Dude, when you buy their stock, you force THEM to give YOU money via dividends. And you didn’t give them nothing, you just bought the stock from another trader.

Even better, if you and a band of other manages to buy 50.001% of the total stock, you are now majority shareholders and can reform Fox as the workers coop it always should have been.

Somebody's job, probably.

It may be based on the size of the potentially harmed audience, not the finances of the offender (which feels fairer, honestly, even if I don’t care to stand up for Fox)

Audience size would likely be:

1. Box office movie
2. Fox show
3. Jimmy kimmel

The news they got promoting that they are the channel to watch football is probably worth more then half a mil to them. Literally nothing.

what if i use it on tik tok

and, ironically, then getting fined is actually promoting the advertisement even more.

We should send that memo to the Canadian government so our cops will stop using our emergency sound for fucking amber alerts.

Oh no, a multimillion/billion dollar corporation has to pay half a million dollars? OH NO!!! That’s so mean! 🙄

I mean, you can blame them. but ultimately someone at the network fucked up by not requesting a copy with that edited out (im also assuming they have quality control and review materials before airing them).

honestly i didnt know this about EAS until now, but judging from the comments from people who have worked in broadcasting it seems to be common knowledge, so seems like the blame lies with the network more so than the person chopping movie clips for advertising.

Thanks. Fuckin clickbait

Right, but if they don’t stop it becomes more of a thing. They aren’t stoked about just pissing away the money.!There are people above the people who made the decision who are probably hella embarrassed. Although imagining the top go “Let’s play the Emergency Alert Sound” is amusing.

But hey if there’s a new headline tomorrow I guess they didn’t give a shit.

Even these big corporations like to nickel and dime. If someone uses the tone without realizing they were going to be fined then it’s a screw up and someone will get fired. If they did it knowing full well they’d get fined and got the go ahead anyway, then yes they should fine them more.

Keep dreaming’ kiddo. If you buy stock, you give them clout, you keep their brand alive, you justify their shit. And you’ll never get 50+% of a company like that, they are too important to the people spreading lies that keep the poor battling each other instead of coming for their heads.

That'll be $500,000.

You are aware that movies also get broadcast on TV?

Because doing that might actually hurt the companies and we can't hurt the masters!

Fines let the rich know which laws don't apply to them.

[deleted]

Thats not the topic though?

Yeah… unless you work for Costco. Literally not uncommon for an email to come strait from Craig (formally Jim) with:

>Blah blah blah … my Kirkland Blah blah doesn’t work anymore, and I’m your best customer…. I pay $60 for

…OR scenario 2: some kid in a cell phone kiosk to trick my 90 year old grandma into signing up for Verizon…

Scenario 3: Or My BBQ doesn’t work anymore and you said I could return it, but the manager won’t let me return my rusty-cube…

Or worse-

>Your cable guy fell through my attic/hit on my wife/scared my dog….

Jim’s reply, shortly:

(?!)

Or slightly less common:

“Fu*kin fix this!”

Proceeds to see email forward chain through VP of Merchandising, General Merchandise Manager, Assistant Merchandise Manager, Buyer, Assistant Buyer… down to me… inventory control guy.

Buyer: F*ck… fix this- I’ll help! I don’t want Jim coming down here and yelling at us… I can hear his footsteps already… drop everything!

Us: throws cash card at member, orders “White Glove Service” same-day to pick up their couch, patio gnome, whatever…

Been there. Done that.

I’ve worked on fox shows before and this is accurate.

In ‘21, Fox execs were consciously exposing audience members to covid positive and quarantined cast and crew members. They’re awful people and I refuse to work with them or watch Fox shows again.

Who knows how many people could’ve died because an exec at fox wanted a contestant to sit in the background of a shot for 20 seconds.

When you buy stock in Fox, it directly increases the net worth of the Murdoch Family Trust. Hard pass.

All kinds of people care about sports